Need Immediate Advice. Betta with Major Fin Rot

I have had a male betta since March. His fins started tearing in May. The fin healed after I started regular W/Cs. The issue came back in April it slowly got worse. Tearing then healing slightly, tearing then healing slightly. But he was losing fin faster than he could heal.
I used aquarium salt and API Stress coat but now I am realizing that does nothing to stop the infection. Recently after placing more plants in the tank large sections of the fin have gone. This is what really made me panic. His fin is tattered and half way to his body! I didn't know what to do so I took everything out of his tank except a hide and a thermometer. No gravel. I also did a 100% W/C and moved the tank away from a window ( This I expect contributed to the fungal growth because of the direct sunlight and increased temp) I dissolved 5 tsp of aquarium salt in.
The water change caused a .50 ppm Ammonia spike. Now I am going to the pet store to get medicine but am not sure what will work best. I am thinking Jungle Fungus Eliminator in combination with Methylene Blue. Is this the best option? I am posting from a phone so I am figuring out how to get picture of his situation but until then I will describe. This is major fin rot, no black around tears just tearing with no sign of repair yet.
Here is what I'm working with
5 gallon hex tank
Fully cycled some days but most of the time I have .25 ammonia due to it being in my tap.
.5 ammonia now. 0 nitrites, 5-10 nitrates.
Yes I have API master test kit.
No plants right now everything is removed .

 

I'm sorta clueless on the subject of fin rot, but I do know someone (unfortunately) quite versed in the subject. poeticinjustices recently went through a whole mess of dealing with it in her betta. Her experience is detailed (de-tailed... bad taste?) . You might try some of what she did, and I'm sure she'll pop into this thread, too.

 

I went to Petco and they had limited options as far as medicine goes. I bought a new tetra whisper filter, carbon, tetra betta safe, tetra lifeguard all in one don't know if this will help and some water change solution. I decided to start doing water changes with store bought water to avoid the ammonia in my tap.
I read that thread by poeticinjustices. I pray I am not in the same situation as her. She seems much more experienced at fish care and discusses all kinds of medications I didn't see in the store. After this trip to Petco I will not have the cash to spend on my betta for a while so I need him to improve with what I have.
Right now he is in a tank with no gravel and no plants the water is pristine and the temperature is 78 f So this bacteria or fungus will have a harder time doing their work.
Someone please tell me if I am going about this wrong or I can be doing something better.

 

VeggieXL, you are doing fine. Water quality is imperative to fish health, your fish's immune system needs the best enviroment to be successful in fighting off disease. Shotgunning medications can lead to further complications as some medications can cause excess stress on vital organs or even for your fish to start flashing in result of the medication. Could you post a picture of your betta ?

 

HI there Don't panic, you are doing a really good job and seem to care very much for your finned friend.

I am going to ask a few questions just to get things clear in my head. Hope you don't mind!

A w/c shouldn't have caused an ammonia spike. Did you change out the media or anything during this change? Did you use dechlorinator? Changing your media or not using dechlorinator can kill the good bacteria in your filter and cause a spike.

Your betta can be housed with anything 'soft'. If you get a pair of stockings and pull them around the decor in some water, anything they snag on can get your Betta fins. I would put some water in a bucket and try it out. Especially your plants, they can really improve water quality and your tanks water may improve by adding some back in. What plants do you have?

How often are you doing water changes? Daily water changes can keep the water pristine which promotes fin healing so I would be doing 50% water changes daily to help out.

I wouldn't change your filter out unless you are moving all the media (stuff inside the filter - sponge, ceramics, carbon etc) over to your new filter as this will cause your tank to cycle. What was your reason for changing the filter? Does the current/intake affect his swimming? Is he getting caught on the filter?
poeticinjustices has gone away for a few days but her thread about V contains lots of great information on medicating Bettas. She has a lot more experience than most dealing with this, because she hasn't had a choice but to learn.

Experience isn't about how long you have had fish, it is about the knowledge you possess. Research, research, research is the key to fish keeping. The more you read, the more you learn. Keep going through information and search for information you require and you will be amazed how quickly you can learn!

Try soaking his food in garlic juice (crush a garlic clove and use the juice from that) before feeding it to him as Garlic does wonders for their immune system.

Do not doubt yourself. You are doing the best you can for him and he will appreciate that

 

Thank you @hollie1505 and @! Here is the pictures of BodhI Betta and his ailment.
I took more but the file sizes are massive I will need to reduce.


Look at his tail!!!
Now to answer Hollie1505's questions.
Until today I have been using tap water in my tank. My tap contains, .25 ppm of ammonia. This created difficulties when I was cycling and there is 90% of the time, .25ppm ammonia present in the aquarium. When I do big 100% WCs it spikes to .5 for a bit. Now as an extra effort to keep my betta comfortable I am using store bought water for all changes.
As for the stockings, I removed everything in the tank in my paranoia except a thermometer and a hiding hut. I did the stocking test and the hut passed.
Plants: I have 4 kinds of plants, I do not know their species..I will rinse them them and put 3 of the 4 species back in. (one of them is messy and sheds leaves) I am currently trying the garlic idea. I have been feeding him these Aqueaon Betta Food pellets most days and noticed he almost never goes to the bathroom. I suspect after reading @ thread about V, that the pellets may be causing this. I bought some flakes while at Petco and I also have bloodworms that he refuses to eat.

 

I wouldn't trust the API master kit when it says .25 ammonia. I had my tap tested by the water company and they said there is no ammonia in my water, but the API test says I have .25 in my tap.

 

I wouldn't trust the API master kit when it says .25 ammonia. I had my tap tested by the water company and they said there is no ammonia in my water, but the API test says I have .25 in my tap.

Did they test for ammonium ? The API test does not distinguish between both.

 

Did they test for ammonium ? The API test does not distinguish between both.

I'm not sure.

 

Thank you @hollie1505 and @! Here is the pictures of BodhI Betta and his ailment.
I took more but the file sizes are massive I will need to reduce.
View attachment 145075
Look at his tail!!!
Now to answer Hollie1505's questions.
Until today I have been using tap water in my tank. My tap contains, .25 ppm of ammonia. This created difficulties when I was cycling and there is 90% of the time, .25ppm ammonia present in the aquarium. When I do big 100% WCs it spikes to .5 for a bit. Now as an extra effort to keep my betta comfortable I am using store bought water for all changes.
As for the stockings, I removed everything in the tank in my paranoia except a thermometer and a hiding hut. I did the stocking test and the hut passed.
Plants: I have 4 kinds of plants, I do not know their species..I will rinse them them and put 3 of the 4 species back in. (one of them is messy and sheds leaves) I am currently trying the garlic idea. I have been feeding him these Aqueaon Betta Food pellets most days and noticed he almost never goes to the bathroom. I suspect after reading @ thread about V, that the pellets may be causing this. I bought some flakes while at Petco and I also have bloodworms that he refuses to eat.

Poor guy He doesn't look too fuzzy so clean water may be all he needs. He's got gorgeous colouring though!

What water conditioner do you use? Prime neutralizes the ammonia for 24hours so it may be worth using something like Prime or dosing Amquel plus if ammonia seems to be an issue.

Have you used any store bought water yet? the water can be very different from your tap water (which, if the ammonia reading is correct, is already proving so) can cause stress on your fish. The entire chemistry is probably different than tap (pH, hardness etc). What are the readings in comparison? Stress can cause illness such as fungus and fin rot.

Plants will use some of the nasties in the aquarium to grow. Particularly fast growing plants. My betta has Java Fern, Vallisneria, Moss Balls, Salvinia Natans (floating plant) and a few others and they have done no damage to him. The plants will also give him somewhere to hide whilst he is feeling a little groggy. Speaking of which, how is his behaviour?

So far as feeding, soaking the food in Garlic Juice will help his immune system (Garlic Guard and Vitachem are supplements you can buy, wallet permitting which also help) and it's something I do every feeding regardless of health. It can also entice fussy eaters!

If he seems constipated try feeding a quatre of a shelled pea to him, it acts as a laxative.

Hope he starts healing soon! Keep it up love, you're doing great, it can be so disheartening feeling helpless.xx

EDIT: apologies for using the term 'love', it's my Yorkshire creeping out.x

EDIT #2: @ I have had misreading on ammonia from the API kit twice but after checking again, they were fine. Having said that, when I asked about the readings on here I heard from people who have had problems with it. @ make sure you give all your bottles a really good shake, until your arm hurts also, now you have 3 posts, can you fill out your aquarium info on your profile? It's very helpful. Thanks.xx

 

@OP, you don't need to buy the lfs's expensive betta water. Get the gallons of spring water from wal-mart and treat with betta water conditioner. Add correct amount/type of salt. I'm a noob to bettas, so maybe someone can comment on wal-mart brand spring water?

 

When switching from tap to RODI / tap to bottled / bottled to tap, etc.. I suggest the new water source be tested and the fish be re-acclimated.

 

@OP, you don't need to buy the lfs's expensive betta water. Get the gallons of spring water from wal-mart and treat with betta water conditioner. Add correct amount/type of salt. I'm a noob to bettas, so maybe someone can comment on wal-mart brand spring water?

I only bought that to start it out. I plan on using grocery store 2$ gallons.
hollie1505 his behavior is exactly the same as when I first bought him. This is something I take comfort in. He is very calm, unless you put a finger to the glass or he sees his reflection.Always excited sometimes almost jumping out of the water when about to be fed. He never lays on his side or anything like that. He sleeps in frequent but short intervals at night and is awake all day. He loves his hut and he likes to wedge in between the leaves of my big plant or the patch of grass.
Also yes I have been using prime. But not shaking it. I didn't know you needed too!

 

$2/gallon is still more than you should be paying, lol. I think pure water from the store near me (I use it for pitcher plants) is something like $0.80/gallon

 

2$ is an estimate. I have no idea how much water is even though I used to work stock at a grocery store lol.
I will post pictures of BodhI and all my plants tomorrow when I have access to a PC. I feel a lot of progress will be made now and I'm more optimistic than I was this morning. Thank you everyone who is replying. I will be sure to update my profile information.

PS I have 2 filters running at the same time. I had this extra tetra whisper 10I and I thought maybe it would help. Should I take it out?

 

2$ is an estimate lol. I have no idea how much water is even though I used to work stock at a grocery store!
I will post pictures of BodhI and all my plants tomorrow when I have access to a PC. I feel a lot of progress will be made now and I'm more optimistic than I was this morning. Thank you everyone who is replying. I will be sure to update my profile information.

PS I have 2 filters running at the same time. I had this extra tetra whisper 10I and I thought maybe it would help. Should I take it out?

I know it can vary, but the walmart brand spring water here is 7.5pH, 8ppm on my ppm meter. Its pretty much ideal water for bettas from my understanding.

 

That is pretty much the exact PH of the tank right now. I will definitely go to walmart .

 

That is pretty much the exact PH of the tank right now. I will definitely go to walmart .

Just make sure to test the water before adding it.

 

It's not just the pH of the water that is different. The entire chemistry could well be off. You will need to fully acclimate him into it. Then again every time you use different water. Have you used any yet?

How often are you doing water changes compared to when he was healing? Could upping them be the solution as he sounds in good health other wise?x

 

I have not used the water yet. I did a 100% WC with tap water this morning before I bought the solution. I am planning on doing a 10% WC tomorrow.

 

How often are your water changes? I personally would just do 50% water changes daily, with tap water and Prime. Messing with water chemistry can do more harm than good in my opinion.x

 

I agree with . Daily w/c of at least 25% is needed, Fresh water is the healthiest thing for healing fins.

 

Fresh water is the healthiest thing for healing fins.

^That.x

 

Yes but since I first bought him he has gotten progressively worse. His pectoral fins were half blue originally, now they are full red. I am doing all this reading now and see that's a sign of ammonia poisoning. I never thought .25 was enough for concern but maybe prolonged exposure to it played a big role here. Now that I have thought this I cannot leave him in there anymore I will do the daily 50% W/Cs and acclimate him.

 

HI VeggieXL ! Here is a link that will give you some more info about this. Let us know how you are doing o.k.?

 

fishingdeep that is a good article it was the first one I read this morning.

 

It really is a nice read for any betta owner. It is easier to prevent it than to cure it but you didn't have an option to do it. Thanks for the post

 

Yes but since I first bought him he has gotten progressively worse. His pectoral fins were half blue originally, now they are full red. I am doing all this reading now and see that's a sign of ammonia poisoning. I never thought .25 was enough for concern but maybe prolonged exposure to it played a big role here. Now that I have thought this I cannot leave him in there anymore I will do the daily 50% W/Cs and acclimate him.

HI there. I'm sorry for everything you're going through It kind of already sounds like you've got a plan of action so all I'm really here for is to offer my support and empathy. I know how heart-wrenching it is to feel like nothing is working.

For what it's worth, more than once I've had more experienced fishkeepers suggest to me that tap water may be part of the problem. Now, I don't have ammonia or anything of the basic nasties in my tap, but that doesn't mean there's not something else there irritating the problem. My thoughts are that when enough people have suggested something to me, it's worth a try. So I'm in the same place you are as far as giving up on tap. I'd think that, if there is truly ammonia in your tap and your having spikes, that could part of the problem and my hope for you is that ammonia-free water and a good diet will do the trick. There is a chance that the API kit is wrong, yes, but if the store-bought water reads negative for ammonia, then you can probably rule that out. Readings in the water complicate everything. Once you've dealt with that issue, I have hope that your situation will become easier to resolve.

Keep doing what you're doing. You have all of my support and empathy.

 

HI there. I'm sorry for everything you're going through It kind of already sounds like you've got a plan of action so all I'm really here for is to offer my support and empathy. I know how heart-wrenching it is to feel like nothing is working.

For what it's worth, more than once I've had more experienced fishkeepers suggest to me that tap water may be part of the problem. Now, I don't have ammonia or anything of the basic nasties in my tap, but that doesn't mean there's not something else there irritating the problem. My thoughts are that when enough people have suggested something to me, it's worth a try. So I'm in the same place you are as far as giving up on tap. I'd think that, if there is truly ammonia in your tap and your having spikes, that could part of the problem and my hope for you is that ammonia-free water and a good diet will do the trick. There is a chance that the API kit is wrong, yes, but if the store-bought water reads negative for ammonia, then you can probably rule that out. Readings in the water complicate everything. Once you've dealt with that issue, I have hope that your situation will become easier to resolve.

Keep doing what you're doing. You have all of my support and empathy.

Thanks for the reply! I read your thread about V this morning to get a better idea of what I may be dealing with. How is your fish doing?
I bought a gallon of distilled water, tested it and got negative results for ammonia. But research suggests that filling the tank with the stuff will do more harm than good. PH changes will stress the fish and the water is too pure. It contains none of the trace minerals of tap water that benefit the fish. However using it to top off the tank should provide some benefits and slightly curb the ammonia.

 

PH changes will stress the fish and the water is too pure. It contains none of the trace minerals of tap water that benefit the fish.

Honestly, if you're just adding in a gallon or less at a time, and you do it slowly (over the course of even just half an hour), ph changes should be completely irrelevant. As for trace minerals, you can add those in separately.

 

I have been considering this. I will add some tomorrow when I do a 50% WC.

 

If it has been recommended to poeticinjustices, then I would be tempted to try the bottled method I must say. She has a lot more experience with recurring Fin Rot than I and I know the amount of research that has gone into caring for poor V.

How big is your tank? If it is a 2gal, adding 1 gal of bottled water is quite a lot so I'd either acclimate him into it or add 5-10% of your tank volume with the water change. I am not against switching water, just be careful not to do it too quickly, that's all. Best of luck!x

 

Just skimmed this and I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, if they have my bad on the repeat. If you do medicate the tank, either because the clean water doesn't help or just to be on the safe side since it sounds so bad (not really recommended to treat anything unless it really needs it, but I know I and others have jumped the gun before or added a little something in to help prevent something we thought might be there because it's so horrible seeing your fish in a bad condition) please be sure to remove the carbon from the filter before hand. It will probably say to do that in the instructions on any meds you buy, but I know a lot of people skip that thinking it isn't important. The carbon will remove any meds you add from the water.

 

OK now I have 2 questions. What product is there that adds the essential nutrients back into the water?
Is there hard water out there as cheap as soft water?

 

Someone might tell me I'm wrong, but I suspect that Flourish Comprehensive or Flourish Trace would do it. They're technically liquid plant fertilizers, but the point is that they dose trace minerals =/

 

If you're talking about remineralizing RO water, the products you want are made by seachem. They make buffer "salts" (they aren't really salts) for remineralizing RO and DI water. They have a GH buffer and an Alkaline buffer, I use both and they are great products.

 

I don't know that my experience with V should be your guide in this situation. Certainly, the medication regimen was recommended to me by a member here who I REALLY trust and it was very effective at first, but recent discussion is leading me to the conclusion there is more going on.

This morning, I watched him rip off and eat and ENORMOUS chunk of his dorsal fin. It was an accident. He was turning to catch a piece of food and accidentally caught his fin, freaked, and ripped off a ton of it. It certainly explains why the damage on his dorsal looks so different from the damage on his tail. And, I'm not inclined to get my hopes up, but I could swear some of the red tips look to be lessening on his tail. Also, it's been suggested to me that he is immediately related to a feather/rosetail which are prone to tail biting, rot and thought to have extremely damaged immune systems. So I'd say that I'm not going through your ordinary experience with fin rot. If you did end up having to go the medication route, I stand by the one that was recommended to me. Results were fantastic the first time around. But medicating is not a decision to be taken lightly. It sounds cheesy but you'll just know if or when that time comes. If you're still uncertain, it's probably not time for meds yet.

I was going to say that about using the RO/DI water, that acclimation should occur slowly and trace elements can be added in separately. Someone suggested a product to me on one of my threads, I think called Kent something, if I run across it again I'll edit this post. It was suggested to me to try this method by a few people - some trusted LFS employees and a couple other people. Again, it's only something I'd enter into after really educating myself on it because the more you have to "add' to your water, the more variables are introduced to the tank and the harder it becomes to control. I don't say this to freak you out, I've honestly never used RO/DI water, but am only saying to do your research and be really confident in your ability to manage it. You could also try cutting your water with it rather than completely replacing it, esp if your tap has decent GH/KH values.

 

I don't know that my experience with V should be your guide in this situation. Certainly, the medication regimen was recommended to me by a member here who I REALLY trust and it was very effective at first, but recent discussion is leading me to the conclusion there is more going on.

This morning, I watched him rip off and eat and ENORMOUS chunk of his dorsal fin. It was an accident. He was turning to catch a piece of food and accidentally caught his fin, freaked, and ripped off a ton of it. It certainly explains why the damage on his dorsal looks so different from the damage on his tail. And, I'm not inclined to get my hopes up, but I could swear some of the red tips look to be lessening on his tail. Also, it's been suggested to me that he is immediately related to a feather/rosetail which are prone to tail biting, rot and thought to have extremely damaged immune systems. So I'd say that I'm not going through your ordinary experience with fin rot. If you did end up having to go the medication route, I stand by the one that was recommended to me. Results were fantastic the first time around. But medicating is not a decision to be taken lightly. It sounds cheesy but you'll just know if or when that time comes. If you're still uncertain, it's probably not time for meds yet.

I was going to say that about using the RO/DI water, that acclimation should occur slowly and trace elements can be added in separately. Someone suggested a product to me on one of my threads, I think called Kent something, if I run across it again I'll edit this post. It was suggested to me to try this method by a few people - some trusted LFS employees and a couple other people. Again, it's only something I'd enter into after really educating myself on it because the more you have to "add' to your water, the more variables are introduced to the tank and the harder it becomes to control. I don't say this to freak you out, I've honestly never used RO/DI water, but am only saying to do your research and be really confident in your ability to manage it. You could also try cutting your water with it rather than completely replacing it, esp if your tap has decent GH/KH values.

Yes now I realize that our situations seem to be different. When I was panicking a few days ago someone suggested browsing your thread and I read it hoping to get an idea of what medications to buy and how they were working for you. Now though, I do not think BodhI is quite at that stage yet. He is showing a little sign of regrowth on his tail fin but some tatters are still stringy and not improving yet. He is in the cleanest water I can get with 50% daily WCs without gravel or dirt so if I see anything on the bottom it gets vacuumed out. In these conditions if he somehow loses another chunk of fin I I will have to order the meds you are using with success.
He is still in mostly tap water and will stay that way until I find and get a product that makes DI water completely safe. So I still can't get rid of that .25 ammonia reading and that's beyond annoying.

 

It really sounds like you may be experiencing ammoniaspikes in the water. It is sometimes confused with fin rot because of the damage it does. I read your opening post but I don't know if your tank was cycled. Can you say your tank was cycled to begin with? Thanks[h=1][/h]