Need help on dead Angelfish mystery.

Justmecb75

I recently put 5 Angelfish in a 65. They all seemed to be doing well. I noticed what I now believe eggs from one of them a few days ago. This morning I found three Angelfish dead. Could this be bullying from the male that mated? Assume those three were also males? The one I think is male was much bigger than those 3.
I had lost a neon rainbow a week or sobago and just noticed another one of them acting odd. Swimming upside down and lethargic. Could I have some kind of outbreak starting?
 

SparkyJones

I recently put 5 Angelfish in a 65. They all seemed to be doing well. I noticed what I now believe eggs from one of them a few days ago. This morning I found three Angelfish dead. Could this be bullying from the male that mated? Assume those three were also males? The one I think is male was much bigger than those 3.
I had lost a neon rainbow a week or sobago and just noticed another one of them acting odd. Swimming upside down and lethargic. Could I have some kind of outbreak starting?
Not bullying. Defending their spawning site territory and spawn. When you have a mature pair of angels in any tank under 4 ft length the tank isn't big enough for any other fish that might threaten the eggs or fry or even possibly trespass on the spawning site.
Just as likely, more likely actually, that the female killed them all. If you want to see just how aggressive they are at this time, stick you hand in there and move it slowly towards the eggs they both will absolutely hammer you, the female even more than the male, then imagine your hand is the other fish in your tank and have nowhere to go to get away from it. The female is smaller than a dominant male by a lot, and she will hammer him and back him off also, and if she rejects him and he can't leave the area she'll kill him too.

Yeah, I think they are slamming anyone that gets close to the eggs and this is killing your other fish.
My 72g ain't big enough for a pair and any other fish, sometimes it can work if the pair isn't interested in taking half or more of the tank as territory, but that's not been my experience with it, I have been lucky that my pairs have either picked all the way to the left or all the way to the right, and not the middle of the tank. All the way to one side or the other gives the other fish about 1 ft of tank to use as the pair takes the rest and I haven't had deaths like that and been able to remove the pair from the community tank to their own tank.

You might want to remove the eggs, they will get over defending it quickly and be less aggressive once it's gone but they will work towards spawning again In another 15 days and ramp up territorial and aggressive behaviors again shortly. If you leave the eggs it stays aggressive,, and gets worse once the fry are swimming..
So unless you want your fish all beat to death the pair really can't stay in the tank with other fish.
 

Justmecb75

That was what I was afraid of. Will have to adopt one out then. My other tanks are 30 and 20 so too small and full of shrimp. That was an expensive lesson. I did knock the eggs down but it seemed to escalate after. Like they now blamed everything for it. I now know better how to sex them by the forehead shape though. Definitely one large male and female is about half his size. She is about 2 inches by an inch and a half. Thinking adopt out the female and keep male. He should be mellow on his own right?
 

SparkyJones

It's 50/50 with the male.. for sure if you don't want that happening, every time with eggs,, the female has to go and be rehomed but with a dominant male that has mated he will either calm down without a female or remain territorial and aggressive and no longer a good fit for a community setting.
It's all learned behaviors and once they've learned it, it usually becomes fixed. If that was the first spawn there's a chance without a female he calms down and reverts back to mostly peaceful without the hormones in the water of a female.

They both might need to be rehomed though if he keeps the behavior, no longer being a good fit for a community setting. It's possible he also keeps holding territory and sparring and defending and looking for a female to appear.
 

Justmecb75

Actually met a local angel breeder in the lfs and we are swapping the mated pair for 2 females. Thanks for all the info! They have settled now and no more losses. This is the pair. They are gorgeous. Bigger is the male.
 

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