Need Goldfish Help!!

Rtessy
  • #1
So this little guy has been through a lot, and long story short I've tried treating for a lot of things and nothing seems to quite work. A few weeks ago, he developed a white patch on his (well actually hers, but I named him Charles and fish don't have concept of gender, so I'm probably just gonna call him, him) upper lip and it would flake off. Scared me quite a bit, first I was advised it was fungus and treated with pimafix for a few days (four, but apparently my asthma doesn't like tea tree oil) I then came here and was advised it was costia, something I had been considering pretty heavily. I was recommended Ruby reek kick ich, as I keep him with an amano and some snails, and it definitely seemed to do something. I had to stop treatment after 7 days (13 day treatment I think) as he began to develop dropsy. I moved him to a separate QT, 10 gallons, added epsom salt and did daily baths and 50% water changes for a few weeks. During this time I also treated with kanaplex, which helped the dropsy but did nothing for the mouth. And, as you can see by the pictures I'm about to post, he's doing much better!! I slowly dropped the water changes to once every 2-3 days, still 50%, this just happened within the past week. Before that, I did a full treatment of the kick ich, and again it had an effect, just not strong enough. I'm currently treating with Artemis, which is natural so I'm not sure how good that will work. But now the spot on his lip has become very bloody, and I'm freaking out a bit. Do I need a stronger ich medication, does anyone know what this is or a better way to treat it?! Please and thank you in advance.
 

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Goldiemom
  • #2
Not sure what he has but Artemis has worked for me in the past. Good luck!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
Thank you! Today's day three, so here's hoping!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
I have been continuously treating with Artemis, there was improvement for the first week so I kept hoping, but to no avail. It said it was safe to continue treatment past the first ten days, but now I feel I'm really pushing it. I really need help, I dropped the water changes to 50% every 2-3 days, I really need to get him better to get him out of this tiny QT. His mouth is more swollen and the white line/edging is still there. I just got an order of erythromycin in for a different fish, should I try this? This is so gosh darn frustrating because for every single medication I try, for the first day or two there is no change, then for 3-5 days he starts to look better, then he gets worse again. For every medication! Everything from kanaplex to pimafix to kick-ich to Artemis! Does anyone have any suggestions??
 
Goldiemom
  • #5
I know how frustrating this is and I’m sorry you are having to go through this. I wonder if Gypsy13 would have any suggestions. She is good with diseases and knows goldfish. Sorry, Gypsy. I have kept you busy today. The fish is a common goldfish that has had a little white spot on his upper lip. Now it is bloody. It has been treated with Kanaplex, pimafix, kick ich, And Artemiss. It doesn’t look swollen so a Epsom salt bath probably wouldn’t help. What about aquarium salt? Ideas???
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
Oh I have to say, this is a common goldfish, this was the first fish I really screwed up in my care with. This was before I knew everything, so she's severely stunted at about 5 inches after being kept in a tiny, uncycled, unfiltered bowl for 2 years
It started as this white slimy thing on the upper lip, and I was advised it was costia and told to treat with the kick ich, which I did. Then she developed Dropsy and somehow managed to pull through that (main reason she's still in the QT). It then spread outward and was only white on the edges, with the inside at first being normal flesh colored, then pink, then purple then bloody. The upper lip is being eroded very slowly, and slight red streaking began to go back into the lip a few weeks ago.
Edit: it's only slightly swollen, and it's just the lip. This whole time it hasn't spread to the rest of the body, but during this period she at first would sit on the bottom of the tank a lot (she absolutely never did this before, she started doing it when there wasn't strong flow so I keep the flow high now) and I thought I had solved that problem but two days ago she was sitting on the bottom and didn't move when I went over to the tank, even when I rapped on the glass. She didn't move until I actually physically touched her, and since then she's been fine. I don't know if it's related or not, but it started to occur at the same time.
 
Gypsy13
  • #7
Is she eating ok? Still in qt? Frequent water changes?
Sorry. Severe t storms. Keep losing conn.
How long since she’s been dosed with meds? Can add aquarium salt to qt water. Follow directions on box. Keep in salt water two days. Then tell me what she looks like. Will give options after storms.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
Sorry about the storms, I hope you get your connection back soon. They've been passing through here as well, but not that bad. It's been quite a while with meds, a bit over a month with only a few days break inbetween. Actually, there was a week and a half break after dosing the kanaplex for Dropsy, after that I did a round of kick ich, waited five days with carbon, and started the Artemis. Before that I tried pimafix for only four days, lol, I'm the one that couldn't handle it, it really messed with my asthma. After that I was just two treatments away from completing a treatment of kick ich, then when got Dropsy, I moved her to QT, and started with kanaplex. I' really worried about the effect it could have on her. I even did a salt dip at one point because I believed it was costia, and some of it did flake off, but it was just so stressful for her I didn't go longer than 2 minutes. Initially she wasn't eating, mainly because she was weak, but I ended up hand feeding her and she entirely returned to her normal strength a week ago. My water changes dropped to 50% every 2-3 days, it was every day for a few weeks (Dropsy). Dropsy came on just a few days after I noticed the mouth, and about a week after moving her to the new tank, so I think it was just the stress of the move, despite a nearly 2 hour acclimation. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add aqarium salt to the water and let you know in two days.
Edit: sorry for the wall of text, I don't want to miss anything that could help
 
Gypsy13
  • #9
I like lots of text. Like having an audiobook!

Sorry about the storms, I hope you get your connection back soon. They've been passing through here as well, but not that bad. It's been quite a while with meds, a bit over a month with only a few days break inbetween. Actually, there was a week and a half break after dosing the kanaplex for Dropsy, after that I did a round of kick ich, waited five days with carbon, and started the Artemis. Before that I tried pimafix for only four days, lol, I'm the one that couldn't handle it, it really messed with my asthma. After that I was just two treatments away from completing a treatment of kick ich, then when got Dropsy, I moved her to QT, and started with kanaplex. I' really worried about the effect it could have on her. I even did a salt dip at one point because I believed it was costia, and some of it did flake off, but it was just so stressful for her I didn't go longer than 2 minutes. Initially she wasn't eating, mainly because she was weak, but I ended up hand feeding her and she entirely returned to her normal strength a week ago. My water changes dropped to 50% every 2-3 days, it was every day for a few weeks (Dropsy). Dropsy came on just a few days after I noticed the mouth, and about a week after moving her to the new tank, so I think it was just the stress of the move, despite a nearly 2 hour acclimation. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add aqarium salt to the water and let you know in two days.
Edit: sorry for the wall of text, I don't want to miss anything that could help

If you have three percent hydrogen peroxide, you can use a cotton swab to dab it on her lip. If it seems to be getting worse, can you get something with amoxicillin in it? Like fish mox? Seachem makes something too cupramine? Not quite sure. It’s a copper based product and I try to stay away from dosing my goldies with copper. But see how the aquarium salt and peroxide (if you have any) do. Tonight if possible. Thinking positive!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
If you have three percent hydrogen peroxide, you can use a cotton swab to dab it on her lip. If it seems to be getting worse, can you get something with amoxicillin in it? Like fish mox? Seachem makes something too cupramine? Not quite sure. It’s a copper based product and I try to stay away from dosing my goldies with copper. But see how the aquarium salt and peroxide (if you have any) do. Tonight if possible. Thinking positive!
Thank you so much! I don't have any hydrogen peroxide right now, I don't know if I'll be able to run out today, but I'll try! I can add the aquarium salt after I do the water change today in about an hour, and I'll look into places I can get fish mox and cuprimine just in case. Thank you!

I found someone who can bring me hydrogen peroxide today, so yay! Now how do I go about applying it? I don't have any q-tips or anything similar I don't think.... And how do I avoid getting it in her mouth? The spot has started to creep inisde her mouth a bit so it'll be tough. Also, just to check, is the dose for aquarium salt 1tbsp per 5 gallons?
 
Goldiemom
  • #11
Yes, your dose for aqauarium salt is correct...1tbs. per 5G. You can use a soft cloth to dab the hydrogen peroxide with if you don't have cotton. Just be sure the cloth gets saturated well. Just be as careful as you can...I don't think a tiny bit would hurt if it got in the mouth. Humans use it on mouth sores. Just don't swallow it. Gypsy will probably be on later.
 
Gypsy13
  • #12
Yes, your dose for aqauarium salt is correct...1tbs. per 5G. You can use a soft cloth to dab the hydrogen peroxide with if you don't have cotton. Just be sure the cloth gets saturated well. Just be as careful as you can...I don't think a tiny bit would hurt if it got in the mouth. Humans use it on mouth sores. Just don't swallow it. Gypsy will probably be on later.

Thank you Goldiemom. Yes just something soft and dab don’t rub.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
And will I have to hold her out of the water? What's the best way to do this? I've read holding them in a towel, but from fishing I know that really destroys the slime coat...
 
Goldiemom
  • #14
Keep your hands wet. If you can raise out of the water but still keep her wet, it will help. I had one I had to rub meds on and I just pulled it up in a large net and and laid it in the palm of my hand, still a bit in the water. Good luck.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
I literally forgot nets were a thing for a minute there....
 
Goldiemom
  • #16
I literally forgot nets were a thing for a minute there....
LOL. Yep, most people don't like using them anymore and I prefer a tupperware strainer myself. However, in a case like this, they are good to use.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
Well turns out I cannot find my net, it's just gone, so I'll probably use your method, thank you!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
So I'm about to pull her out into a tupperware so I can hold her and put hydrogen peroxide on the wound thing. How exactly does this work, do I have to hold her out for a while, or just a quick dab and be done?
Edit: I mean can I then place her back in QT or does she need some time in the Tupperware so there's not hydrogen peroxide in the QT

So, basically I did what I said above, and I put her back in the Tupperware for five minutes or so before moving her back. She immediately began moving her mouth in and out really fast, so hopefully it did something. She normally does that when it bothers her, generally when there's skin flaking off or peeling, so I mean I hope it did something! She also ate literal seconds after being put back in the water (she was out partially for maybe 3-4 seconds), and ate from my hand so no hard feelings, lol
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
So I had thought she was getting better, but this morning the wound was bleeding again, would another hydrogen peroxide swab be harmful?
 
Goldiemom
  • #20
Sorry no one has responded. Guess everyone is doing Memorial Day things. Sounds like you have been doing everything correctly. You can do the hydrogen peroxide again. What it is doing is cleaning the wound and possibly removing any dead tissue. Could she have hit it on something to start it bleeding again?
 
Gypsy13
  • #21
Sorry no one has responded. Guess everyone is doing Memorial Day things. Sounds like you have been doing everything correctly. You can do the hydrogen peroxide again. What it is doing is cleaning the wound and possibly removing any dead tissue. Could she have hit it on something to start it bleeding again?

It’s odd. This is the first alert I’ve had that Rtessy has been responding.
And yes, keep dabbing the peroxide. Won’t hurt a bit getting it in the water. But like sweet Goldiemom asks, is she hitting something?
 
Gypsy13
  • #22
Can you post a pic of her today? Please?
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #23
There are a few fake plants in there, but they didn't feel sharp to me, and the only other thing is an airstone and some anacharis... I'll check those fake plants again though, those would be the prime suspects. I'll try and post a picture when I get home, but it's so difficult when she's so active, lol.
 
Gypsy13
  • #24
There are a few fake plants in there, but they didn't feel sharp to me, and the only other thing is an airstone and some anacharis... I'll check those fake plants again though, those would be the prime suspects. I'll try and post a picture when I get home, but it's so difficult when she's so active, lol.

You know we love pics! Always! And it’s good she’s active.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
Ack, I really tried to take pics and even a video, but I just can't seem to. Also by the time I got home, the wound had closed up and it just looks sort of purple. This is normal though, it will look bloody for just a few hours then be fine in about 12 hours, with just a purple mark. These were the best I could get, and they're awful, sorry. That being said, overall I think it may be looking a good bit better, fingers crossed!
Edit: sorry I literally forgot the pics, here we go. Also the black thing was some filter media she knocked loose while I was taking pics, I had just moved over all the media from the 60 and would you believe it didn't fit in the filter for the 10, lol
 

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Goldiemom
  • #26
Looking good right now.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
Just an update; I think she's looking a great deal better today! I don't have pics, since I have been relying on the window for lighting and I just didn't get back in time to be able to take a picture.
Just as a follow-up, do you guys have any good tips about how to move her back to the 60? I was going to do several large water changes on it since I let the TDS get a good deal higher than it was, then I planned on doing water changes in the QT with the tank water from the 60. I'm mainly concerned because I think all of this happened to her because of the stress of moving her to the 60 the first time. I did acclimate her for over an hour, temperature and with water from the tank. What's the best way to go about it this time? And thank you both so much for your help!
 
Goldiemom
  • #28
I always just net them and put them back because I keep my water the same in both tanks. I can see your concern in this case though. Adding water slowly to the QT tank acclimating it slowly would probably be good. Good luck. So glad it’s improving!
 
Gypsy13
  • #29
I always just net them and put them back because I keep my water the same in both tanks. I can see your concern in this case though. Adding water slowly to the QT tank acclimating it slowly would probably be good. Good luck. So glad it’s improving!

Perfect.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #30
HI again, I have two problems right now....
The first, I tested the water for the first time in a few weeks, as I did daily water changes for close to a month, so I figured if there was a problem with the cycle it would have recycled. Even with dropping to every other day or every three days I didn't see a problem... Well, there is one: pH: 6, Ammonia: 0.5, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 5. Somehow the pH crashed and ammonia went up, but I'm assuming it's mostly ammonium, so it's stalled the cycle a bit. I assume, but I don't know. I just retested tap water, coming out of the tap it's above seven, after sitting 24 hours it's 6.8, no change. Is there anyway aquarium salt can crash the pH? My water has almost no kH, and I buffer the 60 gallonwith cuttlebone, eggshells, and seashells naturally to get a kH of 6 and pH ~7.4, but I hadn't done anything to the QT as, again, I thought frequent water changes would do this. I'm especially concerned because I did a water change today and yesterday, both 50%. Not going to lie, this was the first time I tested pH in there. It's bare bottom, and has three plastic fake plants and one fake plant made from thread, as well as some anacharis. Any possible causes? Also, any quick remidies, as the natural ways I have take a while to kick in?
The second, is yesterday I sort of thought her mouth looked white, and I was just hoping it wasn't, but I think it is back again today. I don't have pics because I don't have a light on the QT and have been relying on the natural lighting, but the storms blocked that out. I will try another hydrogen peroxide swab, I'm sure it's the stress of changing water parameters that brought it back.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Okay so I know double posting is bad, and I was going to add it in, but I feel like it's too long. I found one other person who had this same thing, except it came and went, but I wanted to add their descriptions because they're better:
"when his lips were white I have noticed what seems to be a small piece of loose skin"
"it looks like a little strip of smooth skin, not fuzzy at all, sort of like when a snake sheds. He keeps sucking it in and out of his mouth"
The thread didn't go anywhere with what it was or how to treat...
 
Gypsy13
  • #32
Okay so I know double posting is bad, and I was going to add it in, but I feel like it's too long. I found one other person who had this same thing, except it came and went, but I wanted to add their descriptions because they're better:
"when his lips were white I have noticed what seems to be a small piece of loose skin"
"it looks like a little strip of smooth skin, not fuzzy at all, sort of like when a snake sheds. He keeps sucking it in and out of his mouth"
The thread didn't go anywhere with what it was or how to treat...

I love long posts. Little minI audiobooks for me.

Do you have any mblue you could dab with?
I have to do as close to daily water changes as possible in my guppy tank. Otherwise my ph is 6.8 or lower. Other tanks, no problem. I’ve even got crushed coral in there. I’m thinking he probably needs a break from the salt by now. The biggest concern for me is his sucking it in and out of his mouth. That will just keep it irritated. Why can’t they behave?
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
Well it's like pieces of skin fall off, and for a while it's stringy so when they breathe it just goes in and out. Thank you for the advice, I'll do some water changes without the salt. I do have some M. Blue, but I've only ever done baths with it, how do I dab it on? Just soak something in pure M. Blue and dab it or soak something in a less concentrated solution? I am hopeful because this was the very first time it went away fully for a while, all the other meds just decreased it.
 
Gypsy13
  • #34
It may be better to do the mblue bath and then dab with the hydrogen peroxide. See if you can get this stopped without resorting to stronger meds.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #35
It may be better to do the mblue bath and then dab with the hydrogen peroxide. See if you can get this stopped without resorting to stronger meds.
Great, thanks! And for the bath, is a dose of 2x the strength for 30 min okay? Like 10 drops per 1/2 gallon instead of every gallon? (If it is ten drops, I kind of forgot)
 
Gypsy13
  • #36
Depends on the dropper. I use one and a half teaspoons/gallon for ten second dips. Half that for twenty minute bath. Hope that helps. I’m so tired division and conversion is just beyond me. And this rain will not be helping!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #37
Thank you! I hope you feel better soon!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #38
Hi, I know it's been quite a while. I did another hydrogen peroxide swab, since it didn't come back as aggressive, and so far it's holding and I haven't seen the white since. I do have some m blue on hand, and if it comes back again I'll do another swab and a bath.
 
Gypsy13
  • #39
Hi, I know it's been quite a while. I did another hydrogen peroxide swab, since it didn't come back as aggressive, and so far it's holding and I haven't seen the white since. I do have some m blue on hand, and if it comes back again I'll do another swab and a bath.

This is good. Watch closely. Keep posting updates! I love good updates.
 
Gypsy13
  • #40
How’s the finbaby?
 

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