Need Goldfish Help!!

[Rtessy]

So this little guy has been through a lot, and long story short I've tried treating for a lot of things and nothing seems to quite work. A few weeks ago, he developed a white patch on his (well actually hers, but I named him Charles and fish don't have concept of gender, so I'm probably just gonna call him, him) upper lip and it would flake off. Scared me quite a bit, first I was advised it was fungus and treated with pimafix for a few days (four, but apparently my asthma doesn't like tea tree oil) I then came here and was advised it was costia, something I had been considering pretty heavily. I was recommended Ruby reek kick ich, as I keep him with an amano and some snails, and it definitely seemed to do something. I had to stop treatment after 7 days (13 day treatment I think) as he began to develop dropsy. I moved him to a separate QT, 10 gallons, added epsom salt and did daily baths and 50% water changes for a few weeks. During this time I also treated with kanaplex, which helped the dropsy but did nothing for the mouth. And, as you can see by the pictures I'm about to post, he's doing much better!! I slowly dropped the water changes to once every 2-3 days, still 50%, this just happened within the past week. Before that, I did a full treatment of the kick ich, and again it had an effect, just not strong enough. I'm currently treating with Artemis, which is natural so I'm not sure how good that will work. But now the spot on his lip has become very bloody, and I'm freaking out a bit. Do I need a stronger ich medication, does anyone know what this is or a better way to treat it?! Please and thank you in advance.

 

[Goldiemom]

Not sure what he has but Artemis has worked for me in the past. Good luck!

 

[Rtessy]

Thank you! Today's day three, so here's hoping!

 

[Rtessy]

I have been continuously treating with Artemis, there was improvement for the first week so I kept hoping, but to no avail. It said it was safe to continue treatment past the first ten days, but now I feel I'm really pushing it. I really need help, I dropped the water changes to 50% every 2-3 days, I really need to get him better to get him out of this tiny QT. His mouth is more swollen and the white line/edging is still there. I just got an order of erythromycin in for a different fish, should I try this? This is so gosh darn frustrating because for every single medication I try, for the first day or two there is no change, then for 3-5 days he starts to look better, then he gets worse again. For every medication! Everything from kanaplex to pimafix to kick-ich to Artemis! Does anyone have any suggestions??

 

[Goldiemom]

I know how frustrating this is and I’m sorry you are having to go through this. I wonder if @Gypsy13 would have any suggestions. She is good with diseases and knows goldfish. Sorry, Gypsy. I have kept you busy today. The fish is a common goldfish that has had a little white spot on his upper lip. Now it is bloody. It has been treated with Kanaplex, pimafix, kick ich, And Artemiss. It doesn’t look swollen so a Epsom salt bath probably wouldn’t help. What about aquarium salt? Ideas???

 

[Rtessy]

Oh I have to say, this is a common goldfish, this was the first fish I really screwed up in my care with. This was before I knew everything, so she's severely stunted at about 5 inches after being kept in a tiny, uncycled, unfiltered bowl for 2 years
It started as this white slimy thing on the upper lip, and I was advised it was costia and told to treat with the kick ich, which I did. Then she developed Dropsy and somehow managed to pull through that (main reason she's still in the QT). It then spread outward and was only white on the edges, with the inside at first being normal flesh colored, then pink, then purple then bloody. The upper lip is being eroded very slowly, and slight red streaking began to go back into the lip a few weeks ago.
Edit: it's only slightly swollen, and it's just the lip. This whole time it hasn't spread to the rest of the body, but during this period she at first would sit on the bottom of the tank a lot (she absolutely never did this before, she started doing it when there wasn't strong flow so I keep the flow high now) and I thought I had solved that problem but two days ago she was sitting on the bottom and didn't move when I went over to the tank, even when I rapped on the glass. She didn't move until I actually physically touched her, and since then she's been fine. I don't know if it's related or not, but it started to occur at the same time.

 

[Gypsy13]

Is she eating ok? Still in qt? Frequent water changes?
Sorry. Severe t storms. Keep losing conn.
How long since she’s been dosed with meds? Can add aquarium salt to qt water. Follow directions on box. Keep in salt water two days. Then tell me what she looks like. Will give options after storms.

 

[Rtessy]

Sorry about the storms, I hope you get your connection back soon. They've been passing through here as well, but not that bad. It's been quite a while with meds, a bit over a month with only a few days break inbetween. Actually, there was a week and a half break after dosing the kanaplex for Dropsy, after that I did a round of kick ich, waited five days with carbon, and started the Artemis. Before that I tried pimafix for only four days, lol, I'm the one that couldn't handle it, it really messed with my asthma. After that I was just two treatments away from completing a treatment of kick ich, then when got Dropsy, I moved her to QT, and started with kanaplex. I' really worried about the effect it could have on her. I even did a salt dip at one point because I believed it was costia, and some of it did flake off, but it was just so stressful for her I didn't go longer than 2 minutes. Initially she wasn't eating, mainly because she was weak, but I ended up hand feeding her and she entirely returned to her normal strength a week ago. My water changes dropped to 50% every 2-3 days, it was every day for a few weeks (Dropsy). Dropsy came on just a few days after I noticed the mouth, and about a week after moving her to the new tank, so I think it was just the stress of the move, despite a nearly 2 hour acclimation. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add aqarium salt to the water and let you know in two days.
Edit: sorry for the wall of text, I don't want to miss anything that could help

 

[Gypsy13]

I like lots of text. Like having an audiobook!

Sorry about the storms, I hope you get your connection back soon. They've been passing through here as well, but not that bad. It's been quite a while with meds, a bit over a month with only a few days break inbetween. Actually, there was a week and a half break after dosing the kanaplex for Dropsy, after that I did a round of kick ich, waited five days with carbon, and started the Artemis. Before that I tried pimafix for only four days, lol, I'm the one that couldn't handle it, it really messed with my asthma. After that I was just two treatments away from completing a treatment of kick ich, then when got Dropsy, I moved her to QT, and started with kanaplex. I' really worried about the effect it could have on her. I even did a salt dip at one point because I believed it was costia, and some of it did flake off, but it was just so stressful for her I didn't go longer than 2 minutes. Initially she wasn't eating, mainly because she was weak, but I ended up hand feeding her and she entirely returned to her normal strength a week ago. My water changes dropped to 50% every 2-3 days, it was every day for a few weeks (Dropsy). Dropsy came on just a few days after I noticed the mouth, and about a week after moving her to the new tank, so I think it was just the stress of the move, despite a nearly 2 hour acclimation. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add aqarium salt to the water and let you know in two days.
Edit: sorry for the wall of text, I don't want to miss anything that could help

If you have three percent hydrogen peroxide, you can use a cotton swab to dab it on her lip. If it seems to be getting worse, can you get something with amoxicillin in it? Like fish mox? Seachem makes something too cupramine? Not quite sure. It’s a copper based product and I try to stay away from dosing my goldies with copper. But see how the aquarium salt and peroxide (if you have any) do. Tonight if possible. Thinking positive!

 

[Rtessy]

If you have three percent hydrogen peroxide, you can use a cotton swab to dab it on her lip. If it seems to be getting worse, can you get something with amoxicillin in it? Like fish mox? Seachem makes something too cupramine? Not quite sure. It’s a copper based product and I try to stay away from dosing my goldies with copper. But see how the aquarium salt and peroxide (if you have any) do. Tonight if possible. Thinking positive!

Thank you so much! I don't have any hydrogen peroxide right now, I don't know if I'll be able to run out today, but I'll try! I can add the aquarium salt after I do the water change today in about an hour, and I'll look into places I can get fish mox and cuprimine just in case. Thank you!

I found someone who can bring me hydrogen peroxide today, so yay! Now how do I go about applying it? I don't have any q-tips or anything similar I don't think.... And how do I avoid getting it in her mouth? The spot has started to creep inisde her mouth a bit so it'll be tough. Also, just to check, is the dose for aquarium salt 1tbsp per 5 gallons?

 

[Goldiemom]

Yes, your dose for aqauarium salt is correct...1tbs. per 5G. You can use a soft cloth to dab the hydrogen peroxide with if you don't have cotton. Just be sure the cloth gets saturated well. Just be as careful as you can...I don't think a tiny bit would hurt if it got in the mouth. Humans use it on mouth sores. Just don't swallow it. Gypsy will probably be on later.

 

[Gypsy13]

Yes, your dose for aqauarium salt is correct...1tbs. per 5G. You can use a soft cloth to dab the hydrogen peroxide with if you don't have cotton. Just be sure the cloth gets saturated well. Just be as careful as you can...I don't think a tiny bit would hurt if it got in the mouth. Humans use it on mouth sores. Just don't swallow it. Gypsy will probably be on later.

Thank you Goldiemom. Yes just something soft and dab don’t rub.

 

[Rtessy]

And will I have to hold her out of the water? What's the best way to do this? I've read holding them in a towel, but from fishing I know that really destroys the slime coat...

 

[Goldiemom]

Keep your hands wet. If you can raise out of the water but still keep her wet, it will help. I had one I had to rub meds on and I just pulled it up in a large net and and laid it in the palm of my hand, still a bit in the water. Good luck.

 

[Rtessy]

I literally forgot nets were a thing for a minute there....

 

[Goldiemom]

I literally forgot nets were a thing for a minute there....

LOL. Yep, most people don't like using them anymore and I prefer a tupperware strainer myself. However, in a case like this, they are good to use.

 

[Rtessy]

Well turns out I cannot find my net, it's just gone, so I'll probably use your method, thank you!

 

[Rtessy]

So I'm about to pull her out into a tupperware so I can hold her and put hydrogen peroxide on the wound thing. How exactly does this work, do I have to hold her out for a while, or just a quick dab and be done?
Edit: I mean can I then place her back in QT or does she need some time in the Tupperware so there's not hydrogen peroxide in the QT

So, basically I did what I said above, and I put her back in the Tupperware for five minutes or so before moving her back. She immediately began moving her mouth in and out really fast, so hopefully it did something. She normally does that when it bothers her, generally when there's skin flaking off or peeling, so I mean I hope it did something! She also ate literal seconds after being put back in the water (she was out partially for maybe 3-4 seconds), and ate from my hand so no hard feelings, lol

 

[Rtessy]

So I had thought she was getting better, but this morning the wound was bleeding again, would another hydrogen peroxide swab be harmful?

 

[Goldiemom]

Sorry no one has responded. Guess everyone is doing Memorial Day things. Sounds like you have been doing everything correctly. You can do the hydrogen peroxide again. What it is doing is cleaning the wound and possibly removing any dead tissue. Could she have hit it on something to start it bleeding again?