Need Advice with my Cichlids

just remember to make a lot of caves, even if they are a breeding pair, the male can still kill the female

 

Dividers are simple to diy. Go to a arts and crafts store, get plastic mesh, cut to size and use air pump tubing to squeeze into the tank securely.

 

yup I got caves and I'm making more, I don't really get what you mean by the divider though, why do I need to separate them?

 

its not a guarantee that they will mate, and even if they do mate, one of them has the chance of killing one another, that's just how cichlids are

 

I was just saying that if the female is getting beaten up (or the other way around) too badly then you can divide the tank until they are big enough to spawn and then they probably won't fight as much. I suggest getting a dither fish like Zebra Danios, although they are temperate fish, or some other really fast fish. They induce the protection mode of the pairs' territory. That means they pair will spend less time paying attention to each other and more time keeping their 'space' clear of the dither fish.

 

ohh that's a good idea. I just started learning about dither fish and I love danios. say how long does it take before they start breeding? I just read a post on here that said someones pair is taking over 6 months

 

The danios or the convicts? Danios breed constantly lol. Convicts pair up and then breed usually twice a month.

Actually I take that back, I think you would be better with a kind of rasbora.

 

hI again guys I need some more help and I din not want to make another thread so I will add on to this and I hope I will get a response.

so the tank has the two convicts that I think are male and female (still not sure ) and they are doing pretty well. there is some fighting but its not that bad and has calmed down significantly. there are no signs of breeding and the tank looks very boring seeing how big it is just for these 2. so I went to the pet store today and I went looking for a pleco (I have bright lights and algae is getting to be a small problem, also they are completely compatible and I could have another fish ) so I got a common pleco. I also wanted another fish for this lonely tank. so I remembered what you all said and I looked for south americans. I found a really pretty jack demsey and added him to the tank also.

I added the pleco first. he swam in and went right to the glass. the male con went up to him and tried to size him up so to speak. he took one or 2 nips at him but I think he was in for a surprise when he nipped him as the plec has very rough scales like sandpaper and the pleco is not a threat to any of his territory so I think they are fine with one another.

I added the JD and it seemed ok at first but after a few minutes I noticed the male con attacking him and unlike the female con he nipped back just a little. the male and the female con teamed up later and started picking on the JD all three of them had chests flared and there was fight. I don't know what to do these fish are supposed to be compatible. its not that bad as I look at the tank now but the territory of the JD is tiny and the male has enough to worry about chasing his wife around.

any ideas what to do with these fish? should I crowd the tank? is that necessary to spread the aggression, I would love to see a fish put this male con in his place. I really want a firemouth so I am looking for one of those. please guys I need suggestions.

 

Hm.. that's a difficult problem. Common plecos get over two feet long and need a 55g-75g minimum. A smaller type of pleco like bristlenoses will be better for your tank.

Okay you did think correctly that JD's and Convicts are from the same general area but you have to remember that in the wild they have HUGE amounts of space to use as retreats. Your tank us just too small to have a pair of convicts and a JD. The JD will most likely be killed by the pair because he is considered a threat in their aquarium.

I suggest you return both the JD and the Pleco and get another pair of convicts or a pair of Jewel cichlids with a BN pleco instead.

Overcrowding to spread out aggression only works for Rift Lake cichlids. The male convict doesn't (and shouldn't) need to be put in its' place. It's good that he is being aggressive and protecting his territory. I'm afraid if you add new fish that the pair may just kill everything, other than plecos.

 

hmmmmm... didnt really want to hear that... about the pleco: I kinda like the pleco that I have and the pet store I got him from sells really big ones, like 24" ones, so I am pretty sure I can sell him back if he gets too big for the tank.

the JD that I have is really striking, kinda a dark color with this deep red line across the tips of its fins. it really stood out from the other jacks and terrors it was rooming with. I did notice, with a little help from my hand , that he set up a territory. the female convict tried to push him away but I shooed her away.

what would be your suggestion if say I HAD to make this tank work with what I have? this male con is ruining my tank (sometimes I just want to feed his bully self to my puffer so I can have a peaceful tank full of beautiful fish.) but I'm sticking with the convicts and this jack has a unique look to him. should I look into a dither fish like we talked about earlier? I still want those convict babies and the JD appears to keep to himself so I don't think he would be the one to be attacked for eating convict eggs. what would you suggest I do to make this tank work. (still interested in one of those beautiful firemouths, possibly enough to get rid of the JD)

 

hmmmmm... didnt really want to hear that... about the pleco: I kinda like the pleco that I have and the pet store I got him from sells really big ones, like 24" ones, so I am pretty sure I can sell him back if he gets too big for the tank.

the JD that I have is really striking, kinda a dark color with this deep red line across the tips of its fins. it really stood out from the other jacks and terrors it was rooming with. I did notice, with a little help from my hand , that he set up a territory. the female convict tried to push him away but I shooed her away.

what would be your suggestion if say I HAD to make this tank work with what I have? this male con is ruining my tank (sometimes I just want to feed his bully self to my puffer so I can have a peaceful tank full of beautiful fish.) but I'm sticking with the convicts and this jack has a unique look to him. should I look into a dither fish like we talked about earlier? I still want those convict babies and the JD appears to keep to himself so I don't think he would be the one to be attacked for eating convict eggs. what would you suggest I do to make this tank work. (still interested in one of those beautiful firemouths, possibly enough to get rid of the JD)

It's not so much the size of the pleco but the bio-load. They have extremely large bioloads.


The only thing I can think of to make this tank work is to take out all the fish and decorations. Then add more decorations with the old ones and make a few barriers so that the male con can't always see the female con or the JD. That way he'll be able to set up a sizable territory. Also that will break up the convicts territory forcing them to make a new territory which doesn't include the JD's.

I strongly suggest not getting anymore fish. Dither fish are used to bring out the territorial side of cichlids so they protect their young. The JD will do just that.

 

New test results are in!
Nitrate *inaccurate test* it was pink out of the bottle that the cap was left off of
Nitrite 0
Hardness 85(?)
Alkalinity 80
pH 7.0

Dont know if that helps but I thought I would add it to this update.

I thought about the bio load suggestion and there is not a lot I can do about that. I did add a small filter to the tank I had lying around. its a whisper 5-10 gallon I believe, I just tossed it in there as I had no need for it and it fit in the corner nicely. Also it is black, I have noticed that past plecos liked to latch on it because it was dark colored and maybe I can see him better when hes up there and not hiding among the rocks. also concerning the bio load, I recently got a big box of unassembled filter bags cheap on amazon so I change the filters a lot.

tank decorations are a little weird right now. I have my slate decorations in there. one is good the other was broken when I took it out and is not being repaired/redesigned then there are other slate rocks just loosely piled up on the bottom. I also was at the beack last week and the house we stayed in had tons of shells in the driveway. about 7 inch classic looking sea shells so I picked up a few of those and put them in there. it loos a little messy so I think I will take out all the shells and fill the tank with slate rock. $.35 a pound . aggression has lessened. I have noticed that there have been no major fights (I'm looking over at the tank all the time haha) and the female surprisingly is the JDs biggest enemy. sure the male does a lot of chasing if the JD wonders near him but the female con seems to sit next to him and look at him, possible hinting at a fight. well the jack can defend itself against her so all is well and there is not much of a problem, I don't know maybe they want to be friends or something but they are near eachother a lot. oh and when the female is being mean her face and stripes turn a darker black ever seen this?

thanks for your wealth of knowledge Rogue, it is a blessing having your expertise to help me

 

What about ammonia? You should be sure to check your nitrate because you don't want it over 20ppm especially if you intend to breed the convicts. Hardness and alkalinity are part of the pH. The shells that you put in there actually will push those up and make your water harder. I don't think that's a very good idea so when you get the slate I suggest taking all the shells out and do a good sized waterchange. Also be sure to wash the slate really well before adding it. Cichlids really like slate and will spawn on it. I like to make caves out of it by gluing pieces together and the fish will swim in and out of them.

I think it's quite normal that the female is bugging the JD. She's defending her mate and basically making sure the JD won't bother her while she is spawning. Yep it's normal that her stripes are getting darker when she is near the JD or the male convict. It basically makes her more noticeable and warns them not to mess with her. You'll see that all cichlids, and other fish, darken when spawning or fighting.

When you put the slate in your tank I think you should rearrange everything because I doubt the convicts are gonna accept his territory unless they have to build their own again. That way the JD will also get a good sized territory.

Thank you! I'm glad I can help ;D.

 

I agree with RA that you need to return the pleco, I don't think you want a 24" pleco in there, fish stores are more inclined to take babies instead of adults because they are much easier to sell, I am telling you this from my experience, my uncle bought a 3inch oscar for his 40 gallon and 2 years later, it was about 8inches and it could barely turn, he tried returning it and it was rejected in the four LFS around the area

also about your cichlids, they are not trying to be friends, they are measuring each other up, if you don't return that JD, there is going to be a blood bath in a few months if not sooner

convicts are very aggressive when they are breeding, I have seen them tear apart fish in LFS that has breeding pairs and they end up over stocking the tank with other cichlids

 

I suggest taking all the shells out and do a good sized waterchange. Also be sure to wash the slate really well before adding it. Cichlids really like slate and will spawn on it. I like to make caves out of it by gluing pieces together and the fish will swim in and out of them.

great! I can do all of that today I'm going for a slate run soon . then I'm going to take everything out of the tank. while the tank is empty I will remove the JD and take him back oh and the behavior I talked about the female exhibiting, does that mean she is a female? if you need to clarify more I can make a video on the fish (colors have changed since I last filmed them)

also on the pleco, I will ask the fish store if they take in a big pleco, I know they have some monster size ones that they sell for like $15, I would give them mine for free, so I think they will take it but I will ask. while I am there should I pick up a pair of jewels? more convicts? they also have jacks, terrors and firemouths to my knowledge... what would be good to go with my pair of cons. the tank looks so empty! I don't care what you suggest just pick something for me ;D please be specific, males females, size colorations and patterns that will work and I will see what I can get.

 

You should post before and after pictures!! Are you getting different color slate?

I'm glad you decided to take the JD back. It's best for him/her.

Another problem with the pleco that I just remembered is that they like to eat eggs and if your pair doesn't defend their batch from the pleco then he will eat the eggs. It isn't common for convicts to not defend their eggs though. Just a possibility that you can think about.

I think you should just get another pair of convicts if you really want something. Or you could get a small school of Giant Danios or Rasboras. Female convicts always have some red on their sides. That's basically the best way to tell the difference between male and female. Here are some pictures that may help you tell the difference between male and female convicts.

Male convict -

Female Convict (freewebs.com) -

 

OK so I am back from this rock landscaping place. it was perfect! they had tons of slate and bluestone, the guy knew what I was looking for and said it was even better then slate. the going rate was $.30/pound. he let me look around and I picked up handfuls of fragments and interesting pieces of slate and bluestone. (if you didnt know, bluestone has a rough sandy texture like concrete but breaks kinda like slate) so I picked up pieces that had fallen out of pallets of big pieces. I ended up with 3 large slabs of bluestone and 42 pounds of mixed bluestone and slate ranging from the size of the palm of your hand to large pebbles. I asked what he wanted for this and he said he could never sell small stuff like that and I could take it for $5 ;D so now I have 50+ lbs of rock to decorate with ;D

those pictures helped. I am almost positive I have a male and a female now but I have made a video for you guys showing all 3 fish interacting with one another.

about the pleco, him eating the eggs...ehh I don't know I suppose he could but I plan to keep him will fed, I have algae wafers for him. they are aggressive as it is I can imagine how aggressive they will be with babies, and I'm not looking to keep tons and tons of babies, I would be happy with 3 survivors...oh and you can see in the video I have brown algae in the tank. the plec is not really interested in that, should he be? if not I will just clean it off. just wondering.

the raspora idea is good and the danios, about how many can I put in? and are there any other tropical fish that would work, it would look pretty nice with a school of anything, better then the empty look I have now.

 

That's great! Your tank looks really good. A few more caves and barriers would be good as well if you wanted to put more rock in. Or you could try plants.

The plecos wait till the lights are turned off then they just suck up the eggs. I've seen it happen a lot. It's not because he's hungry or anything. It's just like a delicacy for them I guess.

Your JD looks very stressed in the video. The very first part of the video with the one convict shows the male. The other is a female. I'm 90% sure.

Well Giant Danios is was I was thinking of because they get larger and they are really fast. They're pretty as well. Other flashy fish are sometimes not fast enough and can be expensive to replace. After looking at your tank I think added another pair of convicts might be nice. Your tank won't look empty for long because convicts can get BIG. And when they get big they will always be right in your face.

 

ok great, so I have done my aquascaping and the tank looks COMPLETELY different

I took this video of the fish just now after I saw that you had responded. the lights had been off for an hour or so so the fish are sleepy and not doing anything, also the pleco was right out in the open so you can see him finally. but its not really about the fish in this video. that structure is the big news. I would say it is about 40 lbs of rock in there and it is not stuck together so I can rearrange it if needed. the botton has some caves made from terra cotta pots cut in half, 3 of them, and the entire structure has 3 legs to it, not much space in the center however. the fish don't seem too interested in it though.

one quick thing about the fish behavior, when I put the rocks in the tank the male con came up and bit me 2or 3 times, I was like are you kidding me! then later I decided to feed the pleco. I gave him a piece of an algae pellet and set it right next to him so he could see it. he sucked on it for about 20 seconds and stepped away for a second an a male con came up and took it away and ate it! jerk! he deserves to have his babies stolen! ;D

anyway so I think I will take the jack back, although at this point I just want to say 'screw it, if he dies he dies' because I find myself going back and forth to the pet store for this tank all the time.

about adding the convicts, the store that I go to has them cheeeeeep like less then $2 cheep where the other place has them for like 6. I want to buy there, when I picked up the JD on thursday they has ohhh about 10 cons in stock. one female albino (I don't really like albinos) and the rest striped males. now that you know my (hopefully) final tank setup can I have more cons? I hope to try to raise the babies if they make them. should I get males striped or would you recommend getting that white female? maybe 3 dainos? if I go there and they have a firemouth I will want it so bad I need to just say no haha. just a very hypothetical question: could I have my 2 cons, my pleco, the JD add 2 cons and a firemouth and be ok and just let what happens happen? I'm guessing no but thought I would ask.

 

Hello,

It looks great! I really like the structures. If they aren't glued together are you sure they are stable so they won't fall down and hurt the fish or crack the tank?

It sounds like the male con is getting ready to breed! Mine did that all the time to me. Especially during gravel vacs. Haha I bet the algae wafer was good for him . Just put in another for the pleco .

I think you should get the white female with a striped male because then you'll get mixed fry. That would be really nice. If you do get another pair of cons after you return the JD I wouldn't add anything else. Your last question about stocking wouldn't be a good idea at all! Sorry.

Your tank looks really good!

 

the structure is pretty solid, its like kind of a tripod design so it can only fall into itself.

I think I can get those new fish tomorrow afternoon. is it a good idea to have 2 breeding cons in my tank? I can live with a JD even if it means he is picked on a little. aggression has actually slowed in the last 24 hours. if he turns out to be a big strong fish he will look beautiful and I am thinking of keeping him. if he dies he dies, I know that sounds bad to some people on this forum but I am a casual fish owner and not an animal rights activist. I want to do what is best for the fish but then again they are just fish and I can get another fish anytime. it is not like I put a goldfish in there, it is a south american cichild with other south american cichilds. the jack has no sighs of damage on his body like the pair of cons had when they started going at it. I do research on this all the time and I see videos on youtube where they live together fine. the big structure has brought the aggression down. I think I will keep the jack. I have till tuesday to decide if I change my mind. I hope he gets big, they look beautiful when they are big.

anyway... I have a question or 2 with that pleco. I had a pleco a few months ago that died of starvation in a matter of 10 days. it had a pretty dirty tank too and it had no other reason to die other then starvation I guess. I really do not want that to happen so I am feeding him the algae pellets. he won't eat them, I guess he can't find them or something then the cons eat it. should I be worried? there is not much algae at this time for it is a new tank. the lights are high tough so I think algae grows fast.

you really think they are ready to breed!? wow so exciting! I can't wait. what do they do before they breed and what happens when they do? are there things to look out for as signs of breeding? how many babies can I keep? I am able to kill as many babies as desired (feeding to the puffer) keep in mind that I don't really have big places to put babies. but I do have: a 5 gallon tank with crushed coral substrate that produces a higher pH (it has some tetras in it that can be moved) a 20 gallon tropical tank with gouramis, mollies, tetras ect. a 1.5 gallon tank (haha) and the puffer tank (everything that goes in there is food ;D

 

If you are keeping the JD do not get anymore fish. That would just turn your tank into a warzone. Basically the JD would be stuck in the middle between the two pairs of cons and then lash out at them which would most likely mean the death of the cons. If you do not have the JD you can have two pairs of cons but if you do keep the JD do not get anymore fish. You also gotta keep in mind that the JD will outgrow your tank pretty fast.

The pleco should be fine. He will eat the left overs from the con's and JD's food. He'll also eat some of the algae I usually dropped in algae wafers when I was feeding the other fish so they could get it. Also I suggest feeding ZucchinI and Cucumber. Just cut off a bit and put it on the end of a fork then add it to your tank. I would add it just before you turn off the lights in your tank. Then just take it out in the morning.

When they are getting ready to breed the male will begin to do a shaking dance in front of the female and try to push her towards a certain spot in the tank, usually near rocks. He'll probably do that quite a few times. Then they will clean the surface that they intend to spawn on. They lay eggs rather quickly. Then you can see the female with the eggs and the male guarding his territory. He won't let anything near the eggs. The eggs hatch in a few days and will be moved by the parents to pits dug in the substrate. Sometimes they'll put the fry in places you won't be able to see them. The fry become freeswimming in 3-4 days after being moved and then should be fed. The fry can be fed live mircroworms and powdered fish food. The fry grow quickly and should be removed after 3-4 weeks as the parents will get ready to spawn after this time.

 

hmmmm.. I didnt think the jd would really outgorow this tank. I knew it was on the small side but I thought I could get by. it has no place to go if it gets to big. I have done some more research and I don't think I can keep him especially with that rockwork in there, he would be too big and clumsy. I will take him back. but I do need to know how to catch him , that is going to be a headache...

what are my options for jewels? can I put a couple in there? have we ruled out the firemouth yet? otherwise I will just get another pair of convicts. what fish should I NOT buy at the fish store today and end up regretting then returning?

 

Yeah, JDs get rather large. Careful of the rocks when trying to catch him!

You could get a single pair of Jewels. I wouldn't put in Firemouths because they are less aggressive than Convicts. You can however keep them together, I just don't reccomend it. Another reason not to put them together is that they can cross breed and create hybrids. Here's a link with pictures of the hybrids

Here are your options for more fish. I'll list them off and you should pick a single choice, not multiple ones.

6 Giant Danio
1 pair Jeweled Cichlid
1 pair Convict Cichlid
1 pair Severum


And that's all I can think of at the moment. Personally I'd go for either the danios or the cons. Severums could get bullied a lot.

 

I'm back! I spent 45 minutes trying to get the jack out of the tank. I removed about 30 gallons of water so that it would be only a few inches deep, chased him around a lot and got him out. I went to the fish place and gave him back, by the way I asked if they take fish in and they will! so if that pleco gets too big I have a place to take him . sooooo I ended up getting a pair of jewels a male and a female. please please please tell me that that will be okay. they are floating in the bag now so I can get a good look at them. they appear to be slightly larger then the cons which I think is good because they are so aggressive. while I was there I got some more food and I picked up some baby bloodworms and regular brine shrimp. I think I can feed the babies the baby bloodworms but we will see. I have raised molly fry and I fed them crushed flakes.

these jewels look beautiful!! I really hope they turn that cherry red color and that they too can breed and have babies and that there is no conflict.


EDIT: I just sat down seconds after writing that and I see the male convict laying on its side breathing heavy. I can't find the female. **** it never ends with this tank!! maybe because of the water change. I reached in to fix something, he saw my hand and freaked out and swam all over the place then sank down and is now resting on another rock. I swear if they die I will be crushed.

EDIT again the fish look better now. it looks like in the commotion my male convict get kind of banged up on the rocks I feel terrible ;( he looked like he was about to die and he was hiding in a cave, his wife came over and comforted him, it was sweet . he is getting better. his aggression is almost gone right now and his wife has taken over being the mean one in the tank. the jewels are awesome. their colors are nice and bright and they like eachother. they do not pick on the cons but the cons leave them alone for the most part as they are a little smaller then the jewels. all seems to be well for now I will keep updating this thread with info as it comes.

 

That's great! They will do really well in your tank. Jewels will add color and the cons will add attitude! And they'll both add babies hahaha.

Sorry about you male con . It's frustrating whenever stuff like that happens. I'm glad he's feeling better though. They are tough little fish so I'm sure he'll be up and and about in no time. The female is just protecting her territory that's all .

 

will there be territory probs when both decide to start breeding? you really can't tell cichlids where to breed =T

 

Most likely no. Since there are a lot of rocks structures and there are only two pairs they will probably spawn on either side of the tank with the big rock structure in between.

 

mmmhmmm but I would not risk it, it seems like its a 50/50 chance that it would work, but its not my decision

 

It is possible that there will be some fighting during breeding over territory but I doubt there will be very much because of the tank size. It's a 42g I believe.One reason that it is good is that each pair has to defend its' territory from the other making their protection instinct of the fry kick in which means the OP won't have lazy parents. That's the reason most people add dither fish.

LOL I'm tired.. did that make any sense what so ever?

 

Update: got up today and all the fish are fine (thank god) everyone is being nice to each other. I added a cucumber slice on a fork last night and some of it is gone now, I guess the pleco ate at it and it didnt just wear away with the water. my water is cloudy why would it be cloudy? I just did a massive water change and a filter change the day before. how do I fix this?

 

What do you mean a filter change? It could be that the fish or you just stirred up the gravel and it's settling.

 

What do you mean a filter change? It could be that the fish or you just stirred up the gravel and it's settling.

I just changed the filter bags with new ones.

its weird, I mean I can filter these 5 fish adequately correct?

 

Yikes. That's not good. Whenever you change the filter media you get rid of all the beneficial bacteria, which creates your cycle, which means your tank starts to cycle all over again. Basically your experiencing a bacteria bloom which causes cloudy. Your not supposed to change out filter media except for activated carbon.

 

woah woah woah, just to be clear I have these bio bags, its not a canister. so you throw away the old bag like a dirty diaper. it is just a plastic foam bag with carbon inside it. there are 2 in the filter assembly itself. I also have the same type thing in that little filter I have but I did not change that one. is this really bad??

 

That doesn't make any sense

Are there other medias in the filter other than those disposable bags?

 

Are there other medias in the filter other than those disposable bags?

nope. heres a video of the setup.

 

Your Jewels are pretty! ;D.


Back on topic! I may be completely wrong about this but I believe that those bags aren't very helpful. The media holds 90% of the bacteria in your tank so if you just take the media out and throw it away and add new then you have to grow new bacteria all over again. I never changed my media in my tanks unless (1) it was falling apart or (2) the tank had just gotten over a disease that could stay in the media. If either of those two things happened I would put in pre-cycled media back into the filter from one of my other tanks' extra filters.

 

Your Jewels are pretty! ;D.


Back on topic! I may be completely wrong about this but I believe that those bags aren't very helpful. The media holds 90% of the bacteria in your tank so if you just take the media out and throw it away and add new then you have to grow new bacteria all over again. I never changed my media in my tanks unless (1) it was falling apart or (2) the tank had just gotten over a disease that could stay in the media. If either of those two things happened I would put in pre-cycled media back into the filter from one of my other tanks' extra filters.

hmmm interesting, since I started using these I have tried to stick to the routine of changing them out every 4 weeks or so. you bring up a good point and I will definitely keep them in longer now. so what do I do about my cloudy water? are the fish in danger?

 

Check your parameters and that'll give you a good idea of what you should do. I'm waiting for another member to jump in and confirm that either I'm wrong or those things shouldn't be used. I would just get normal media and put it in your filter. That doesn't need to be changed out. I'm wary of you leaving it in for longer because it says disposable on the box so that might mean it disintegrates after a while.