Nano Fowlr Vs Reef

Fish stock is settled now. I collected my list, added them to my chart, deleted the ones that were way too big (yellow tang) or too mean/not reef safe (6-line wrasse), and finally showed s of the remainders in a collage to my husband. I said the clowns and shrimp were getting stocked (and likely trochus snails), you pick the last fish. He picked the royal gramma. So that's the stock. If/when I upgrade to a 40b or 75 gallon, I'll add the yellowtail damsel, and then seek out other stock at that point.

My 20 high tank is currently quarantining new tiger barbs, so when they move out, I'll be getting things started!

The sixline wrasse is completely reef safe. Its actually beneficial to the reef cause it eats bad hitchhikers and stuff like that. I would not do a clown pair and a royal gramma... They are both extremely territorial fish, and a 20 high just isn't enogh swimming room. Have you checked out bangaiI cardinals, firefish (lots of different color strains here, check em all out), clown gobies, pistol shrimp and yasha goby pair, pisto lshrimp and watchman goby pair, lawnmower blenny, starry blenny, and blue stripe blennies?

 

The sixline wrasse is completely reef safe. Its actually beneficial to the reef cause it eats bad hitchhikers and stuff like that. I would not do a clown pair and a royal gramma... They are both extremely territorial fish, and a 20 high just isn't enogh swimming room. Have you checked out bangaiI cardinals, firefish (lots of different color strains here, check em all out), clown gobies, pistol shrimp and yasha goby pair, pisto lshrimp and watchman goby pair, lawnmower blenny, starry blenny, and blue stripe blennies?

I did look into most of those. I saw bangaiI cardinals at a petco and those would be the best to me of the group you listed. How many would be okay? You would put a six line wrasse in a 20 high? I guess that's really my question is what source for saltwater fish info do you all use? I don't see seriouslyfish listing marine species. Then there's conflicting info from liveaquaria, saltwater fish, and other vendors. But they both state royal gamma basslets are peaceful?

 

I haven't found a really great resource for saltwater fish, though animal-world is better than most. I find personal experience reports on forums to be a good bet as well. Unfortunately, we don't have a huge salty group here, so sometimes it's worth a look at one of those 'other' forums. Also, we do have someone here who I consider to be quite the stocking guru for both freshwater & marine species, so you could always ask our local genius... KinsKicks

 

Most of it comes from experience; a mix of your own and others (I mean, after all, those fish sites are really based off human observation and because each fish is liable to being different, you sorta just have to make a general consensus based off all the info). personally, I take the commercial sites that sell you the fish with about an ounce of belief...the are, after all, trying to make a sale but it doesn't mean they're wrong, it just means you can use what they say as a springboard for more research

It gets easier the more you keep certain kinds of fish. So for example, royal grammas are generally quite peaceful, but in a 20h (and you do take up a lot of space with LR) you realize there isn't as space as you thought there was and they cross paths. It also depends on how experienced you are and if you can create an environment that "tricks" fish into cohabiting peacefully lol. I've kept them both before, but the scape was "holey" and I had a 'Nem for the clowns to busy themselves with all day haha

I'd keep this tank nice and simple with:
• 2 occ. clown (very young to get a pair)
• 1 bangaiI (have you seen Pj cardinals )
• 1 bottom dweller (how about a clown goby? super cute and come in a few colors)

 

Most of it comes from experience; a mix of your own and others (I mean, after all, those fish sites are really based off human observation and because each fish is liable to being different, you sorta just have to make a general consensus based off all the info). personally, I take the commercial sites that sell you the fish with about an ounce of belief...the are, after all, trying to make a sale but it doesn't mean they're wrong, it just means you can use what they say as a springboard for more research

It gets easier the more you keep certain kinds of fish. So for example, royal grammas are generally quite peaceful, but in a 20h (and you do take up a lot of space with LR) you realize there isn't as space as you thought there was and they cross paths. It also depends on how experienced you are and if you can create an environment that "tricks" fish into cohabiting peacefully lol. I've kept them both before, but the scape was "holey" and I had a 'Nem for the clowns to busy themselves with all day haha

I'd keep this tank nice and simple with:
• 2 occ. clown (very young to get a pair)
• 1 bangaiI (have you seen Pj cardinals )
• 1 bottom dweller (how about a clown goby? super cute and come in a few colors)

And the shrimp is still ok? That's a great list. I didn't think I could keep that many fish in the 20H. If it were a 40 breeder (36Lx18Wx17H) instead, how many more cardinals could I add and one of which/all of these: yellowtail damselfish, 6line wrasse, and/or royal gramma basslet?

 

And the shrimp is still ok? That's a great list. I didn't think I could keep that many fish in the 20H. If it were a 40 breeder (36Lx18Wx17H) instead, how many more cardinals could I add and one of which/all of these: yellowtail damselfish, 6line wrasse, and/or royal gramma basslet?

Yes the shrimp will be okay in a 40B I'd only do 2 bangaiI to be safe; if you end up with 2 males, you'll experience some fighting. It may be worth getting a small group and see which pairs up first, and rehoming the others.

And you would be able to add any of those but I will say, damselfish are some of the meanest buggers you'll meet out there and wrasses are touchy; I've had some that were quite friendly and others that were absolute jerks (if they couldn't kill a fish, they'd go after my shrimp); definitely to each their own lol.

 

Is there a fish that I could pass off as Dory and would fit in the 40b? That's my end game here with the damsel. I'm looking for alternative if the yellowtail is a bully.

 

Is there a fish that I could pass off as Dory and would fit in the 40b? That's my end game here with the damsel. I'm looking for alternative if the yellowtail is a bully.

A blue chromis (and just one!) would be your better bet

 

So what I've got now is:

20H:
2 ocellaris clownfish
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
3 trochus snails
1 banggaI cardinalfish
1 firefish goby (not dory-like but seems to be outgoing. Not a big fan of the chromis)

If I upgrade to 40b:
2 ocellaris clownfish
2 banggaI cardinalfish
1 royal Gramma basslet
3-5 trochus snails
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
1 firefish goby

Is this all right or overstocked?

 

One silly question. Yellow tangs. I read 4 inches and 8 inches. Any idea what's right?

 

One silly question. Yellow tangs. I read 4 inches and 8 inches. Any idea what's right?

Nevermind. Haha.

 

So what I've got now is:

20H:
2 ocellaris clownfish
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
3 trochus snails
1 banggaI cardinalfish
1 firefish goby (not dory-like but seems to be outgoing. Not a big fan of the chromis)

If I upgrade to 40b:
2 ocellaris clownfish
2 banggaI cardinalfish
1 royal Gramma basslet
3-5 trochus snails
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
1 firefish goby

Is this all right or overstocked?

That would be fine in a 40 breeder.

Personally I would add more fish, but I also have a ritualistic weekly water change schedule lol.

 

That would be fine in a 40 breeder.

Personally I would add more fish, but I also have a ritualistic weekly water change schedule lol.

What would you add? I don't know if I can commit to weekly water changes though. Averaging every 10 days now on my freshwater tanks.

 

What would you add? I don't know if I can commit to weekly water changes though. Averaging every 10 days now on my freshwater tanks.

I would probably add a dwarf angelfish. A coral beauty or a flame most likely.

But I wouldn't do this unless you can commit to water changes at least every 10 days or unless you have a real decent amount of live rock to handle bio load.

Mind you thinking about it, could probably do it anyway, its a 40 gallon tank and your current bio load isn't significant. What you all think? stella1979

 

I really like the flame angel. I thought they are not reef safe?

 

I'm not actually terribly experienced personally, but I do have the benefit of having watched a lot of salty tanks.... strangely, mostly at my first few jobs, lol. Lots of folks will say a 40B would be ok for a dwarf angel, but I've seen how much swimming those guys want to do, and believe it to be true that while you could house them in that tank, there will be a great deal more aggression than in a larger tank. So, my quick answer to a dwarf angel in 30-50 G's? Not a great idea, but perhaps worth a try if it's your most wanted fish, you have the time to observe a lot, and have a contingency plan in place. Also, yeah... they can be nippy with corals and inverts, so it's all about your end goal and what's most important.

 

To substrate or not to substrate. That is the question of the day. Seems easier to keep the tank clean without it (same as freshwater), but does it have enough beneficial impact on the Ph to make it worth adding?

Every day I bounce back and forth from starting with the 20H to starting with a 40b to scrapping the whole thing and getting a 125 gallon freshwater (which ultimately I don't want to do after a few minutes' thought, but it keeps popping back into my head). I guess this decision would be easier if I had any experience or real understanding of the maintenance involved. I don't want to do sumps and ATO systems yet. Drilling and plumbing all of that is just over my head still.

I searched for used tanks to see what's out there, and there's a 90 gallon set up complete with ATO, RO/DI, 90lbs live rock, Apex controller, dosing systems, water storage containers, the works. Currently running and includes corals and livestock. Asking $1000. I just added up all my costs to start the 20H and I came to $956 (including the substrate costs, so that's the reason for the question--cost trimming). If I started with the 40b, I add only the cost of the tank (right now about $50) and the cost of the stand ($40, husband makes them for me) but there's the extra maintenance and wondering if I should plumb the larger tank, or at least pre-drill and put in bulkheads for future use. It's all so overwhelming. I give up the whole idea after 2-3 weeks of research and come back after 2 months. Rinse and repeat for the last 7 months. When will I pull the trigger and do it? It's a lot of money and a lot of uncertainty. In the end, I really just want a pair of clowns and a shrimp, but I'm looking for future expansion just in case so I don't waste more money on upgrading tanks and components. Sorry for the Dear Diary post. I did ask a question.

Thanks to everyone for dragging me through this. Without you all, I wouldn't even be this far.

My planned purchase list assuming I start with 20H:
Aquaclear 50 impeller (I have a 110 I'll use) $12
Fuge light $17
Chaeto ball $9 ish
Live rock 5 lbs. $? 20?
Dry rock 20lbs. Amazon has a bag 46lbs for $46
Jabao wavemaker RW4 $110 (for 2)
ADE refractometer $18
Calcium/Mag/Alk test set $40
Hanna checker for phosphate $50
RO/DI system $300 with upgrades
Aquastick epoxy $12
Crushed coral substrate 40lbs. $34
Instant Ocean Reef Crystals $56 for 200 gallons
Inkbird temperature controller $35
Arm-length gloves $12
Reef Octopus 100-Hob skimmer $175
2- 5 gallon buckets $10
Total $956

No fish or corals yet.

I have a 100W submersible heater but I read I need one specifically for saltwater, is this true?

 

And possibly a dumb question. If I use a hob skimmer on the back of my tank and later upgrade to using a sump, can I use the hob skimmer to hang on the back of the sump?

 

To substrate or not to substrate. That is the question of the day. Seems easier to keep the tank clean without it (same as freshwater), but does it have enough beneficial impact on the Ph to make it worth adding?

Every day I bounce back and forth from starting with the 20H to starting with a 40b to scrapping the whole thing and getting a 125 gallon freshwater (which ultimately I don't want to do after a few minutes' thought, but it keeps popping back into my head). I guess this decision would be easier if I had any experience or real understanding of the maintenance involved. I don't want to do sumps and ATO systems yet. Drilling and plumbing all of that is just over my head still.

I searched for used tanks to see what's out there, and there's a 90 gallon set up complete with ATO, RO/DI, 90lbs live rock, Apex controller, dosing systems, water storage containers, the works. Currently running and includes corals and livestock. Asking $1000. I just added up all my costs to start the 20H and I came to $956 (including the substrate costs, so that's the reason for the question--cost trimming). If I started with the 40b, I add only the cost of the tank (right now about $50) and the cost of the stand ($40, husband makes them for me) but there's the extra maintenance and wondering if I should plumb the larger tank, or at least pre-drill and put in bulkheads for future use. It's all so overwhelming. I give up the whole idea after 2-3 weeks of research and come back after 2 months. Rinse and repeat for the last 7 months. When will I pull the trigger and do it? It's a lot of money and a lot of uncertainty. In the end, I really just want a pair of clowns and a shrimp, but I'm looking for future expansion just in case so I don't waste more money on upgrading tanks and components. Sorry for the Dear Diary post. I did ask a question.

Thanks to everyone for dragging me through this. Without you all, I wouldn't even be this far.

My planned purchase list assuming I start with 20H:
Aquaclear 50 impeller (I have a 110 I'll use) $12
Fuge light $17
Chaeto ball $9 ish
Live rock 5 lbs. $? 20?
Dry rock 20lbs. Amazon has a bag 46lbs for $46
Jabao wavemaker RW4 $110 (for 2)
ADE refractometer $18
Calcium/Mag/Alk test set $40
Hanna checker for phosphate $50
RO/DI system $300 with upgrades
Aquastick epoxy $12
Crushed coral substrate 40lbs. $34
Instant Ocean Reef Crystals $56 for 200 gallons
Inkbird temperature controller $35
Arm-length gloves $12
Reef Octopus 100-Hob skimmer $175
2- 5 gallon buckets $10
Total $956

No fish or corals yet.

I have a 100W submersible heater but I read I need one specifically for saltwater, is this true?

$956 for a 20 gallon high tank? Seriously? I set up my 15 gallon FOWLR tank for less than $200 including the 15 gallon tank brand new.

$110 for two wavemakers? Drop them and buy three powerheads instead. Should set you back about $40.

You can do it way cheaper than you are thinking with some careful planning.

I've used many of freshwater heaters in salt tanks without a problem.

Here is my current tank breakdown.

15g tank, led light, heater and filter $100
Live sand $30
Live Rock $60


I also use three additional small internal filters as power heads for flow. It was cheaper than buying powerheads and they pump the same amount of water while offering a little extra space for beneficial bacteria.

 

$956 for a 20 gallon high tank? Seriously? I set up my 15 gallon FOWLR tank for less than $200 including the 15 gallon tank brand new.

$110 for two wavemakers? Drop them and buy three powerheads instead. Should set you back about $40.

You can do it way cheaper than you are thinking with some careful planning.

I've used many of freshwater heaters in salt tanks without a problem.

I do need a RO/DI system. I can get one for $120 or so, but it doesn't have the inline TDS readers (meters?), automatic flush, or the float valve for filling an ATO. Many people have said they went cheap and had to upgrade anyway, wishing the went with the better model first.
Yeah, the Jebao wavemakers with controllers are $56 each. I'm trying to balance cost with quality I guess. I don't want stuff that won't work well on a 40b if I upgrade and I don't want stuff that will fail after a year. On the flipside, this list is costly (for such a small tank).
Thanks about the heater.
Anything in my list you would cut? Or care to share your list? I'm definitely starting a FOWLR for now. The reef is going to have to wait until I know what I'm doing.

 

I do need a RO/DI system. I can get one for $120 or so, but it doesn't have the inline TDS readers (meters?), automatic flush, or the float valve for filling an ATO. Many people have said they went cheap and had to upgrade anyway, wishing the went with the better model first.
Yeah, the Jebao wavemakers with controllers are $56 each. I'm trying to balance cost with quality I guess. I don't want stuff that won't work well on a 40b if I upgrade and I don't want stuff that will fail after a year. On the flipside, this list is costly (for such a small tank).
Thanks about the heater.
Anything in my list you would cut? Or care to share your list? I'm definitely starting a FOWLR for now. The reef is going to have to wait until I know what I'm doing.

Its worth investing in high quality bits but not so much when your doing a tank so small. The cost you want to spend on parts for the tank far outweighs the benefit in such a small tank.

All you really need for a FOWLR tank of this size is a "cheap" RO unit, some powerheads, live rock, sand and obviously filtration and heating.

Nothing else is needed. I get by with just a cheap RO unit off Ebay, I didn't even pay $60 for my unit. Sure this might not be great for a 150 gallon reef tank, but it does the job for a small FOWLR tank.

 

I would not use a skimmer in a FOWLR tank of this size either. The benefit would not be so great.

 

ParrotCichlid Noted. Thanks! For the powerhead, would a pair of 800 gph be sufficient? More gph or add a third one?

 

First purchases have been made!!!! It's happening now

RO system, refractometer, and dry rock are on the way.

 

At the risk of sounding like a spendthrift.... Yes, corals are expensive, but imo they're a very rewarding part of the hobby. You can watch them grow like plants, and watch them eat like animals... they are amazing to me. Corals are also the reason why you'd probably want to plumb a 40B, (overflows are a pain, but a sump would be best on a larger tank), but you wouldn't have to plumb a 20H. Corals are also the reason you'd want those Jabeo's, and would eventually need to spend money on a good light. Yes, everyone, myself included, says to start with a FOWLR. That lasted 3 weeks for me. Honestly Books&Fish , you sound like you want a reef tank someday, and perhaps biting the bullet is just what you need to do so you'll get excited about moving forward. I certainly don't want to be pushy with anyone, but if you want a reef tank, go for it! You won't be sorry.

 

Same time post!

Seriously, I hope I'm not coming off as pushy about the reef tank. I also couldn't agree more with paying for quality. I started my tank with Hydor powerheads and one of them didn't last for 6 months. I know others love Hydors, but I have a Jebao now and love it. I also started with T5 lighting, because it seemed cheaper. It wasn't all that cheap, and neither is yearly bulb replacement. I'm soon to get an LED. What's worse than spending all your money on parts for your tank? Having to buy some of those parts twice.

 

At the risk of sounding like a spendthrift.... Yes, corals are expensive, but imo they're a very rewarding part of the hobby. You can watch them grow like plants, and watch them eat like animals... they are amazing to me. Corals are also the reason why you'd probably want to plumb a 40B, (overflows are a pain, but a sump would be best on a larger tank), but you wouldn't have to plumb a 20H. Corals are also the reason you'd want those Jabeo's, and would eventually need to spend money on a good light. Yes, everyone, myself included, says to start with a FOWLR. That lasted 3 weeks for me. Honestly Books&Fish , you sound like you want a reef tank someday, and perhaps biting the bullet is just what you need to do so you'll get excited about moving forward. I certainly don't want to be pushy with anyone, but if you want a reef tank, go for it! You won't be sorry.

Thanks! I know I'll go full reef. I just don't know if that will be in the 20H I'm starting with or a 40b later. I don't want to buy things that only work for this small tank and have to repurchase them shortly for a 40b.

Do you know any videos that explain WHY you plumb the tanks? I've seen HOW to do it (circular bit and drill with water, etc.) But I don't understand the placement of the holes or how to run the plumbing to the sump and prevent flooding during power outages. I probably should read a book. Haha. I did read most of the freebie on this site though.

Once I go reef, I can add a DI resin to the RO system I ordered. It shouldn't be hard. I can also order more dry rock. I do intend to grab some live if there's some at the LFS over an hour away. I haven't been able to get to them yet since their hours aren't the best.

 

Same time post!

Seriously, I hope I'm not coming off as pushy about the reef tank. I also couldn't agree more with paying for quality. I started my tank with Hydor powerheads and one of them didn't last for 6 months. I know others love Hydors, but I have a Jebao now and love it. I also started with T5 lighting, because it seemed cheaper. It wasn't all that cheap, and neither is yearly bulb replacement. I'm soon to get an LED. What's worse than spending all your money on parts for your tank? Having to buy some of those parts twice.

Would you recommend a skimmer for the 20H? Or wait until I get a sump on the larger tank? Or get a hob and use it on both? (Perfect world, right?!)

Until I start with corals, I'm using my Aquaneat light. Later I'll get the AI Prime HD's.

 

Do you know any videos that explain WHY you plumb the tanks? I've seen HOW to do it (circular bit and drill with water, etc.) But I don't understand the placement of the holes or how to run the plumbing to the sump and prevent flooding during power outages. I probably should read a book. Haha. I did read most of the freebie on this site though.

Once I go reef, I can add a DI resin to the RO system I ordered. It shouldn't be hard. I can also order more dry rock. I do intend to grab some live if there's some at the LFS over an hour away. I haven't been able to get to them yet since their hours aren't the best.

Hmmm, well the reason you plumb is because you need a sump for the amount of filtration you'd want on a 40B, and overflows are known to be finicky and cause issues. As far as how to plumb? I have no idea, but I'm almost sure BRS has a video on it. In the meantime, I'll call on one of our members that has experience here. LJC6780 <---- Good advisor, and will hopefully be along soon.

Adding DI later is easy. It took my husband about 5 minutes to hook our DI stage up to the preexisting RO system.

Live rock isn't a bad idea.. diversity and cycling help and all. But... I have never put live rock in my tank. I started with dry to save money, and did not end up needing to add live and any pests it may come with, so I never did. I'm about 7 months in, the uglies are over and my rock is pretty live. I've got pods and coralline anyway.

A skimmer is never a bad idea, after all it keeps the water cleaner and can help cut down on changes. You don't need a skimmer on a 20 gallon though, and I'd wait for the big tank. I don't have one on my 20 gallon and parameters are good and stable with weekly 20% changes. I do have an Aquaclear HOB on it with Matrix and a minI chaeto refugium inside it. It was quite easy to modify, and one of our other reefers here just did his too. We'd be glad to help if you want to try it.

 

ParrotCichlid Noted. Thanks! For the powerhead, would a pair of 800 gph be sufficient? More gph or add a third one?

I can guarantee that a pair of 800 gph powerheads will be more than sufficient for a 20 gallon high. It wouldn't even need that much in all honesty but the extra flow can not hurt

The main benefit to having a protein skimmer is that you won't have to change the water as often. But in a small tank of 20 gallon you're going to have to do regular water changes anyway making the benefit of having a skimmer not worth it on this tank.

I did actually have a skimmer on my first salt tank. Removed it after the first week because it was useless as I had to do weekly water changes anyway to keep parameters in check being a small tank.

 

My point about the wavemaker wasn't suggesting you go and get the cheapest powerheads available it was basically saying that you can get the same results from powerheads as you can from a wavemaker, for much less.

You could get 2 great quality powerheads for about half the cost of them wavemakers.

 

My point about the wavemaker wasn't suggesting you go and get the cheapest powerheads available it was basically saying that you can get the same results from powerheads as you can from a wavemaker, for much less.

You could get 2 great quality powerheads for about half the cost of them wavemakers.

I'm still going to get a cheap powerhead for mixing salt. Is there a GPH recommendation to keep the water mixing strongly enough? I'm planning on doing 5 gallons at a time. Something like this? Then I can connect tubing to the top and use it to pump water into the tank.

 

Hmmm, well the reason you plumb is because you need a sump for the amount of filtration you'd want on a 40B, and overflows are known to be finicky and cause issues. As far as how to plumb? I have no idea, but I'm almost sure BRS has a video on it. In the meantime, I'll call on one of our members that has experience here. LJC6780 <---- Good advisor, and will hopefully be along soon.

Adding DI later is easy. It took my husband about 5 minutes to hook our DI stage up to the preexisting RO system.

Live rock isn't a bad idea.. diversity and cycling help and all. But... I have never put live rock in my tank. I started with dry to save money, and did not end up needing to add live and any pests it may come with, so I never did. I'm about 7 months in, the uglies are over and my rock is pretty live. I've got pods and coralline anyway.

A skimmer is never a bad idea, after all it keeps the water cleaner and can help cut down on changes. You don't need a skimmer on a 20 gallon though, and I'd wait for the big tank. I don't have one on my 20 gallon and parameters are good and stable with weekly 20% changes. I do have an Aquaclear HOB on it with Matrix and a minI chaeto refugium inside it. It was quite easy to modify, and one of our other reefers here just did his too. We'd be glad to help if you want to try it.

I meant why as in where do you put the holes and why are they like that. One is higher than the other. Why is there two and how are they supposed to be placed. What is the thinking process when choosing where to put them. That sort of thing.

 

So I finally was able to see these animals in person. Brought the kids and husband. After watching their plumbing, it seemed to make sense. I decided to start with the 40 breeder. I'm going to plumb it and do a refugium/sump. I bought the breeder at petco's $1 per gallon sale this weekend, but it's going to be until probably spring break before I can drill it. Husband is making a custom stand that will fit the sump and an ato reservoir, also during spring break. PVC down and vinyl return is the plan at this point. I'm going to have chaeto in the fuge, and I'm thinking of doing a diy algae scrubber too.

Husband really liked this. Can anyone ID it? It was in their display tank, not for sale.

 

Also the kids really really liked the fake dory-- yellowtail blue damsel and I spent yesterday re-reading the thread and googling other comments on them, and I won't get one. Current stock is now planned:
2 clownfish
3 baggaI cardinals
1 royal gramma
1 firefish
1 cleaner shrimp
3 trochus snails

Anything I should cut or adjust? If I have to cut, the firefish or cardinals could go. I'd like to keep the others.

 

I see no reason why that stock wouldn't work in a 40B. Congrats on that by the way! You're going to love it, and while it's hard to wait, there's nothing wrong with talking your time and making sure you get things right the first time.

The coral above looks like an octospawn... I think, though I'm unsure how to classify the difference between octospawn and frogspawn. Either way, they are both in the Euphyllia family and are great little corals. LPS and not too difficult to care for. I quite like Euphyllia too, and I'd only say, be careful when handling. Their skeletons are a little more delicate than they look and I accidentally killed my first one.. a beautiful torch that I was so thrilled to finally have. Squished it like an egg while attempting a move

 

Anyone know if I can swap the yellow clown goby for a yellowtail damselfish? I'm going to start with the 20 high tank, and after I get my feet wet, I'll upgrade to either a 40 breeder or 75, whichever I feel more comfortable with. I've spent the last 2 weeks debating if I should start larger, but I have the 20 high already and this way I can spend less before I commit to go big.

Technically Clownfish are Damsels, but the Occ (Nemo variant) Clownfish are on the lower end of the aggressive spectrum, while regular damsels tend to be just plain mean fish (imagine an underwater rabid Chihuahua and you have an idea). Definitely stick with the Goby or a relatively peaceful small fish. The Royal Gramma is a great choice if you want the dottyback look with less attitude. As for the tank itself, take my advice and keep it as simple as possible. I wouldn't do a sump, skimmer or anything beyond a solid HOB Filter, Powerhead/Wavemaker and then just do more water changes. On a 20 gallon the water changes will be frequent (ie at least once a week) but small (ie 5 gallons). The reason that I suggest this is because you will end up spending a bunch of money on equipment and then when you upgrade you will need to re-buy almost all your equipment as precious little will transfer from a 20 gallon to a significantly larger tank. I actually spent more money on my 36 bowfront then I did on my current 90 gallon setup (because I bought a bunch of the equipment used as part of a bundle deal from my LFS). The only things that transferred from my 36 bowfront to my my 90 were my 1950gph powerhead (and I still had to buy another one), the 40 lbs of live rock I had in the tank and my digital thermometer. Everything else had to be re-bought. Just saying to keep it simple and save the splurging for a tank you can be content with for several years.

 

Technically Clownfish are Damsels, but the Occ (Nemo variant) Clownfish are on the lower end of the aggressive spectrum, while regular damsels tend to be just plain mean fish (imagine an underwater rabid Chihuahua and you have an idea). Definitely stick with the Goby or a relatively peaceful small fish. The Royal Gramma is a great choice if you want the dottyback look with less attitude. As for the tank itself, take my advice and keep it as simple as possible. I wouldn't do a sump, skimmer or anything beyond a solid HOB Filter, Powerhead/Wavemaker and then just do more water changes. On a 20 gallon the water changes will be frequent (ie at least once a week) but small (ie 5 gallons). The reason that I suggest this is because you will end up spending a bunch of money on equipment and then when you upgrade you will need to re-buy almost all your equipment as precious little will transfer from a 20 gallon to a significantly larger tank. I actually spent more money on my 36 bowfront then I did on my current 90 gallon setup (because I bought a bunch of the equipment used as part of a bundle deal from my LFS). The only things that transferred from my 36 bowfront to my my 90 were my 1950gph powerhead (and I still had to buy another one), the 40 lbs of live rock I had in the tank and my digital thermometer. Everything else had to be re-bought. Just saying to keep it simple and save the splurging for a tank you can be content with for several years.

Thanks, but I'm going to start with the 40b. It's going to be a diy build since I saw how it all works and doesn't seem too hard anymore (and my husband is on board with helping). I'll start a new thread for the build eventually.

 

I would not use a skimmer in a FOWLR tank of this size either. The benefit would not be so great.

Agreed. On a lightly stocked small tank you won't get a ton of benefit out of a skimmer. Save the skimmer for when you upgrade to a larger setup (which is very likely to happen since saltwater is addictive. . . .and expensive).

 

Well, it turns out I might get to sell my 20 high tank and stand set. With the cash I can buy a new tank for a sump with the $1 per gallon sale still going on. I've googled and found no answer.

What size sump is better, 20
long or 20 high? The difference for my UK peeps is the 20 high is 24L x 12W x 16H whereas the 20 long is 30L x 12W x 12H. The DT is 36 long. I want space for an ato reservoir next to the sump, but also plenty space for the fuge and skimmer. Thoughts?