Mystery guppy disease and deaths

Hi!
I've sadly had to euthanize my guppys I got a month ago today due to a mystery illness that I didn't want spreading to my other fish. But the actual diagnosis has left me perplexed.
The fish didn't seem to be well kept in the fish store in hindsight, so I really regret getting them. A female I got died after a few days, but also gave birth to a bunch of fry, so I put it down to stress at that point. I also regretted it because my water turned out to be super soft which I realized afterwards is really inappropriate for guppys.

The symptoms were that the guppys started slimming down and having somewhat more of a curve to their spine and gasping for air at the surface. Their bodies looked weak simply put. The swimming also became somewhat unstable and there was some fraying in tails going on although this may have been due to inappropriate water conditions (also a too high kH due to a mismeasurement). The tails however seemed to be healing again after a large water change. The male also started laying down on the bottom of the tank. The guppys just seemed overall stressed but however had a very good appetite.

One of the females had two white spots on the tail, but the other guppys had no external visible spots, parasites, worms, swollen gills, ulcers or alike. When looking inside one of the dead guppys I couldn't see any worms or visible masses either (maybe this is gross but I really wanted to get to the bottom of this).

Now I'm wondering what this could be. I've tried doing a lot of research and think it sounds like fish TB, which would be an absolute nightmare since it's not treatable and I have other fish in the tank (which all show no symptoms this far). Could it be an invisible internal parasite, or does the gasping for air contradict this? I mean, the guppys were eating well but still losing weight. Or could it just be that the water was too soft and the shortage of minerals made their organs shut down?

Looking for second opinions to ease my mind since I'm scared that it's fish TB and my tank is now forever doomed. What do you think?

Thank you for taking the time <3

 

Fish tb is fortunately quite rare. But is one of the few diseases that fish can give to humans as such check you don't develop any bumps on your hands ( before you panic fish tb does not cause actual tb, they are different pathogens ) but if you develop symptoms tell your doctor you may have been in contact with it.
It sounds to me it's more likely an internal parasite. Calamanus worms are likely as guppies are particularly prone to these. You might be able to see little red worms sticking out the anal vent but you might not. These spread throughout the fish rapidly. Treatment is usually effective with something containing levamisole. BUT make sure you use as per instructions and it only kills the worms not the eggs so a second and sometimes third treatment is important to wipe out all life stages.

 

Fish tb is fortunately quite rare. But is one of the few diseases that fish can give to humans as such check you don't develop any bumps on your hands ( before you panic fish tb does not cause actual tb, they are different pathogens ) but if you develop symptoms tell your doctor you may have been in contact with it.
It sounds to me it's more likely an internal parasite. Calamanus worms are likely as guppies are particularly prone to these. You might be able to see little red worms sticking out the anal vent but you might not. These spread throughout the fish rapidly. Treatment is usually effective with something containing levamisole. BUT make sure you use as per instructions and it only kills the worms not the eggs so a second and sometimes third treatment is important to wipe out all life stages.

Thank you so much for responding! I could not see any red worms but of course it's possible they were still at work. Regarding fish TB some websites said it was very common and some uncommon so I didn't know what to think. Really appreciate your input.


To add BTW, do you think it's possible to not see the red worms internally when examining the dead fish? It seems that the camallanus should be quite visible, but I could not see any worms or parasites whatsoever.

 

The worms would be in the gi tract so you would have to dissect it to find them. I'm not sure that's the problem, it could be bad water conditions, have you tested the water? Most fish disease is caused both by pathogens AND poor immunity. Healthy fish can fight most infections that are present. If a factor such as stress or poor tank conditions ( water quality, temperature, size, suitability of tank mates etc ) is present it reduces immunity and the fish gets ill from a pathogen that's been there all the time. If multiple fish get ill you must consider something is wrong environmentally. If you don't identify and correct what's wrong the disease will return. You need to figure if some condition of your tank isn't right as well as treating the disease.
As the guppies died soon after purchase I would contact the store, if they arrived infected then other people will have had issues from that batch.
Although in theory guppies are Hardy many sold in shops have been so overbred they are genetically weak and get sick quickly if conditions aren't right.

 

The worms would be in the gi tract so you would have to dissect it to find them. I'm not sure that's the problem, it could be bad water conditions, have you tested the water? Most fish disease is caused both by pathogens AND poor immunity. Healthy fish can fight most infections that are present. If a factor such as stress or poor tank conditions ( water quality, temperature, size, suitability of tank mates etc ) is present it reduces immunity and the fish gets ill from a pathogen that's been there all the time. If multiple fish get ill you must consider something is wrong environmentally. If you don't identify and correct what's wrong the disease will return. You need to figure if some condition of your tank isn't right as well as treating the disease.
As the guppies died soon after purchase I would contact the store, if they arrived infected then other people will have had issues from that batch.
Although in theory guppies are Hardy many sold in shops have been so overbred they are genetically weak and get sick quickly if conditions aren't right.

I'm confident it's not the water conditions. I have corydoras, bristlenose plecos and kuhlii loaches in the tank and they all appear to be doing well (no abnormal surface action). I keep track of the pH, kH, GH and nitrite and the nitrite level is <30 ppm. I've also been doing large weekly water changes. The guppys were the first fish I got for the tank and have slowly been developing this disease. It could be that the other fish will start showing symptoms soon. But the guppys definitely seemed to have been very stressed in the fish store and not have the best genes, most of the fry I got were malformed. Also my water is very soft which could have stressed them.

 

Guppies in soft water- there's your factor.
Guppies need moderate to hard water a GH of 8- 12 is desirable. I lost loads of guppies before I realized this. Deformed fry is a good indicator of poor genetics, although it can also be caused by fry raised with insufficient light. I also find it best to keep some salt in the water with guppies but I wouldn't advise you to do this because of the Cory's ( they don't take to salt at all)

 

Water conditions. Soft water is not good for guppies and causes the shimmies.

 

Thank you both! Of course it's unfortunate and I feel very bad about it but it's also a relief that it might be that easy. The pet stores here are very irresponsible and stock lots of livebearers although the entire region has super soft water. I tried increasing the minerals with aquadur but the pH is also high (8.0) so it doesn't dissolve easily. It was too late at that point. I knew this had stressed them but didn't know if it could be enough to kill them.

 

Thank you both! Of course it's unfortunate and I feel very bad about it but it's also a relief that it might be that easy. The pet stores here are very irresponsible and stock lots of livebearers although the entire region has super soft water. I tried increasing the minerals with aquadur but the pH is also high (8.0) so it doesn't dissolve easily. It was too late at that point. I knew this had stressed them but didn't know if it could be enough to kill them.

You might find this helpful: The Soft Water Aquarium: Risks and Benefits.

 

Anything that stresses fish will leave them more open to disease and the death rates shoot up. I also live in a soft water area but luckily making soft water harder is far easier than making hard water softer. You just have to add minerals. I use seachem equilibrium ( I'm sure other similar products are available )

Thank you both! Of course it's unfortunate and I feel very bad about it but it's also a relief that it might be that easy. The pet stores here are very irresponsible and stock lots of livebearers although the entire region has super soft water. I tried increasing the minerals with aquadur but the pH is also high (8.0) so it doesn't dissolve easily. It was too late at that point. I knew this had stressed them but didn't know if it could be enough to kill them.

A lot of stores ( especially general pet stores ) will sell you anything without any warnings about their suitability. Not just water parameters but also the comparability with other tank mates and size of tank required.
The advice given and the questions asked is what seperates a good store from a poor one. If you buy a fish that needs modified water conditions from the local supply the shop should warn you, But in practice very few will.

 

A lot of stores ( especially general pet stores ) will sell you anything without any warnings about their suitability. Not just water parameters but also the comparability with other tank mates and size of tank required.
The advice given and the questions asked is what seperates a good store from a poor one. If you buy a fish that needs modified water conditions from the local supply the shop should warn you, But in practice very few will.

Yeah it's despicable. I live in Sweden so all the stores are small here and I guess they try to hustle to get by. I'm sure people want their fish to be healthy and thriving. So although they try to make more money that way they could actually upsell people with water conditioners.

 

Yeah it's despicable. I live in Sweden so all the stores are small here and I guess they try to hustle to get by. I'm sure people want their fish to be healthy and thriving. So although they try to make more money that way they could actually upsell people with water conditioners.

I think it isn't sensible for stores to offer poor advice to get sales. I use a good local store regularly whilst I avoid the poor stores completely. The good store had had a lot of business from me over the years because I always shop there even when all I need is branded products whilst the poor stores I haven't returned to at all.

 

I have an update. I found out what was wrong today and it was absolutely awful. It was not the soft water and not parasites or bacteria. All along I’ve had a faulty thermometer and the aquarium has been way too hot.
7 (!!!) degrees Celsius too hot. This is what caused the guppies to die and I also lost a kuhli loach. Now the temperature is corrected and I’m hoping the rest of the fish make it through.
If anyone else finds this thread; additional symptoms include red nostrils in two of the corys, low energy and rapid breathing. The kuhlis went from being out and about at feeding time to constantly hiding.

 

I'm sorry to hear you lost more fish but I'm glad you now know what was wrong. Was it a digital thermometer? I use digital thermometers because they are easy to read but I've often found they don't all agree, sometimes they are a couple of degrees different.

 

No, it was a glass thermometer with a suction cup. It hadn't occured to me it could be that off. Don't remember what brand.

I'm relieved to have found an answer because I've been staring myself blind at the fish, trying to understand what's going on. But I also feel dumb to not have reacted more to the warm water. My apartment is very cold though, so I just figured that was the reason I had to crank the heater up.

 

Hi!
I've sadly had to euthanize my guppys I got a month ago today due to a mystery illness that I didn't want spreading to my other fish. But the actual diagnosis has left me perplexed.
The fish didn't seem to be well kept in the fish store in hindsight, so I really regret getting them. A female I got died after a few days, but also gave birth to a bunch of fry, so I put it down to stress at that point. I also regretted it because my water turned out to be super soft which I realized afterwards is really inappropriate for guppys.

The symptoms were that the guppys started slimming down and having somewhat more of a curve to their spine and gasping for air at the surface. Their bodies looked weak simply put. The swimming also became somewhat unstable and there was some fraying in tails going on although this may have been due to inappropriate water conditions (also a too high kH due to a mismeasurement). The tails however seemed to be healing again after a large water change. The male also started laying down on the bottom of the tank. The guppys just seemed overall stressed but however had a very good appetite.

One of the females had two white spots on the tail, but the other guppys had no external visible spots, parasites, worms, swollen gills, ulcers or alike. When looking inside one of the dead guppys I couldn't see any worms or visible masses either (maybe this is gross but I really wanted to get to the bottom of this).

Now I'm wondering what this could be. I've tried doing a lot of research and think it sounds like fish TB, which would be an absolute nightmare since it's not treatable and I have other fish in the tank (which all show no symptoms this far). Could it be an invisible internal parasite, or does the gasping for air contradict this? I mean, the guppys were eating well but still losing weight. Or could it just be that the water was too soft and the shortage of minerals made their organs shut down?

Looking for second opinions to ease my mind since I'm scared that it's fish TB and my tank is now forever doomed. What do you think?

Thank you for taking the time <3

is it possible its Tetrahymena pyriformis? (guppy disease?) i think that is what just decimated my guppies

 

No, it was a glass thermometer with a suction cup. It hadn't occured to me it could be that off. Don't remember what brand.

I'm relieved to have found an answer because I've been staring myself blind at the fish, trying to understand what's going on. But I also feel dumb to not have reacted more to the warm water. My apartment is very cold though, so I just figured that was the reason I had to crank the heater up.

I know this is late but wow! 7 degrees Celsius is 44 degrees Fahrenheit right? So what was your tank temp at?

 

is it possible its Tetrahymena pyriformis? (guppy disease?) i think that is what just decimated my guppies

No, it turned out to be a too high temperature as the thermometer was faulty. Now that I’ve corrected the temperature the fish is thriving. I won’t get guppies again though as they prefer harder water and it would be a lot of work to get the hardness up.
Now got 4 very happy honey gouramis.

If all of your fish suddenly died, it could be a good idea to include the thermometer in the troubleshooting.

I know this is late but wow! 7 degrees Celsius is 44 degrees Fahrenheit right? So what was your tank temp at?

The temperature was at 32 Celsius or 89.6 Fahrenheit, which is insanely warm compared to their natural habitats. The fish are champs to have made it through as well as they have. Impressive how well they could survive. I lost the guppies, 1 kuhli and 1 Cory.