My three new Giraffe Cichlids died suddenly

I am putting together a new 90 G tank. I bought several cichlids and catfish, including three small (~2.5”) giraffe cichlids from a local big box pet store. At the same time I purchased 6 of what they call “African Mixed Cichlids.” I had previously purchased a year old catfish, Synodontis E., from this store. My water parameters are good. I have another 90 G tank of similar adult fish purchased secondhand & all are doing well. I have other smaller tanks & this is the first time any died. I have observed no illnesses.

I saw one giraffe dead less than a week after the purchase. A few days later I noticed the other two had vanished. I suspect they died and the larger fish ate them. This second 90 G has 3 bigger cichlids I moved from the first 90 G to allow the others more space. They are not huge cichlids: perhaps 4” adults. I am baffled & can only assume they came to me with an underlying condition even though all appeared healthy at the store and for the week I had them. Are there other explanations?

 

from a local big box pet store. At the same time I purchased 6 of what they call “African Mixed Cichlids.”

I am not surprised this is happening. And now you are basically quarantining the fish in their tank. They brought something with them. Now you have to find out what it is.

Please use the emergency template and do not spare the water parameters "good" is not a statement others can work with. And don't forget a picture of the tank and of the fish.

 

I have the feeling the template will lead me down a rabbit‘s hole with no clear resolution. I am reasonably confident whatsoever it was, my healthy tank will overcome and the other fish will be fine. It’s been a week already and all is well in that tank. Time will tell.
PS: I hold a doctorate in biology from UCLA and seen some utterly moronic misinformation on these fish forums.

 

It would at least be a good idea to know what it is. If it's a reaction to the composition of bacteria (etc...) in your tank and simply an adjustment, it will work itself out. If they brought any parasites you better act.

seen some utterly moronic misinformation on these fish forums.

Tell me about it...

 

It would at least be a good idea to know what it is. If it's a reaction to the composition of bacteria (etc...) in your tank and simply an adjustment, it will work itself out. If they brought any parasites you better act.


Tell me about it...

Hopefully the guys who gobbled the missing pair have strong immune systems

 

I hope this isn't a moronic response. Lol.
Sudden death of new fish arrivals aren't always due to disease, environment or excessive stress.
Medications administered along the way from the hatchery to the vendor can damage fish internally causing a delayed, unexpected premature death.

 

Hopefully the guys who gobbled the missing pair have strong immune systems

Also, I’ve done two 75%+ water changes in the last week.

 

I hope this isn't a moronic response. Lol.
Sudden death of new fish arrivals aren't always due to disease, environment or excessive stress.
Medications administered along the way from the hatchery to the vendor can damage fish internally causing a delayed, unexpected premature death.

I'd rather expect a combination of all of the above can also occur together.

 

I hope this isn't a moronic response. Lol.
Sudden death of new fish arrivals aren't always due to disease, environment or excessive stress.
Medications administered along the way from the hatchery to the vendor can damage fish internally causing a delayed, unexpected premature death.

Hardly! It’s the smartest thing ever. Thank you.

 

I have nothing to add to the discussion. I just wanted to say I hope you stick around, Lily, because I would dearly love to see more hard science to counteract the internet hokum (always trying to learn). Also, correct use of the plural and singular forms of words...

 

Lily1 if you want to get serious about African Cichlids I can point you in the direction of some high quality vendors and breeders.

Shoot me a PM

Those fish from the "Pet Box" stores are prone to issues.

 

Thanks, but for now my tanks are sufficiently stocked. I’ll hit you up later should I decide to add another tank.

Gorgeous pics!

It would at least be a good idea to know what it is. If it's a reaction to the composition of bacteria (etc...) in your tank and simply an adjustment, it will work itself out. If they brought any parasites you better act.


Tell me about it...

How would you test for pathogens etc? Or are you suggesting adding prophylactic agents?

I have nothing to add to the discussion. I just wanted to say I hope you stick around, Lily, because I would dearly love to see more hard science to counteract the internet hokum (always trying to learn). Also, correct use of the plural and singular forms of words...

Very kind of you to say!

 

As a side note: your fish can handle some pretty serious salinity levels. You can dehydrate any unwanted microorganisms with aquarium salt at around 1 Tbs of salt per 3-5 gallons of water and let it run through your system for about 7-10 days.
From there you can begin to dilute it away with water changes.
This won't hurt the fish at all and if there is anything that was introduced to your tank (bad bacteria, fungus, parasites) that should help eradicate it so it doesn't attack a fish that might become stressed in the future.

 

This is my new tank, site of the mysterious giraffe deaths. Several catfish of various species & sizes, 1,5” to 4”, are hidden away. The large ship is a duplicate of one in the secondhand tank. I am not particularly enamored of pirate ships,
but it contains numerous big hiding places.

As a side note: your fish can handle some pretty serious salinity levels. You can dehydrate any unwanted microorganisms with aquarium salt at around 1 Tbs of salt per 3-5 gallons of water and let it run through your system for about 7-10 days.
From there you can begin to dilute it away with water changes.
This won't hurt the fish at all and if there is anything that was introduced to your tank (bad bacteria, fungus, parasites) that should help eradicate it so it doesn't attack a fish that might become stressed in the future.

I have a profound aversion to adding anything to my tanks in the absence of more definitive evidence of pathogens & hope I’m not being stupid & will later regret this decision. Thanks for the suggestion. It may be useful another time.

 

I have a profound aversion to adding anything to my tanks in the absence of more definitive evidence of pathogens & hope I’m not being stupid & will later regret this decision. Thanks for the suggestion. It may be useful another time.

I totally understand that. Im the same way when it comes to medications.
But putting salt in a African Cichlid tank is kinda like putting milk in your cereal, it has benefits.
I still don't run it 24/7.
But you're a smart gal, you can read up on it.

 

Just a suggestion, be a good idea to construct a limestone hardscape.
Doing so will help buffer & lock the PH at or near 8.2. A rock reef provides a more natural environment for Mbuna.
Commercial rockyards and landscape companies often have good selections of limestone & is usually very inexpensive.

 

Just a suggestion, be a good idea to construct a limestone hardscape.
Doing so will help buffer & lock the PH at or near 8.2. A rock reef provides a more natural environment for Mbuna.
Commercial rockyards and landscape companies often have good selections of limestone & is usually very inexpensive.

Will investigate, thanks. Think the local saltwater pet shop has a large rock section.

 

Will investigate, thanks. Think the local saltwater pet shop has a large rock section.

They will definitely have base rock at least.
Calcium Carbonate is what you are after.
That's what will buffer the carbonate hardness of your water and stabilize your PH.

You will see your cichlid's colors explode in proper water parameters. There's not a prettier fish, in my opinion, than a happy African Cichlid in the proper water conditions.

 

They will definitely have base rock at least.
Calcium Carbonate is what you are after.
That's what will buffer the carbonate hardness of your water and stabilize your PH.

You will see your cichlid's colors explode in proper water parameters. There's not a prettier fish, in my opinion, than a happy African Cichlid in the proper water conditions.

They are gorgeous & I’d be delighted to see enhanced coloration

 

How would you test for pathogens etc?

You don't. That's the problem. I live in a country where most vets don't even take in fish cases. The few and far inbetween that do, would e.g. do a swipe. BUT: There are certain symptoms that can be quite safely be attributed to certain types of pathogen or parasites. So e.g. if the fish show signs of a bacterial infection or internal parasites, that's at least something. And that's what I meant: E.g. in case of bacterial pathogens you can at least tell the severity.

Or are you suggesting adding prophylactic agents?

Not at all. In quarantine I would only use meds if something turns up with a clear ID. In my experience prophylactic medication kills more fish than it saves. It also has the downside of ruining the fishes immune response. As A201 mentioned above, many fish are swimming in a solution of antibiotics and other meds before they get sold to the retailers where most of the losses occur. The massive use of meds in fish farms and wholesale is a big problem when it comes to resistant pathogens. Considering the stocking densities in those facilities necessary to earn a profit this is the only chance the providers have to prevent losses. So it's a bigger problem altogether and the wholesalers that use the right methods to prevent this are not many.

The salt treatment mentioned above is not working on everything. External parasites can be treated with that, internal parasites and bacteria can not be treated that way. Nonetheless acceptable for Malawi cichlids.

 

You don't. That's the problem. I live in a country where most vets don't even take in fish cases. The few and far inbetween that do, would e.g. do a swipe. BUT: There are certain symptoms that can be quite safely be attributed to certain types of pathogen or parasites. So e.g. if the fish show signs of a bacterial infection or internal parasites, that's at least something. And that's what I meant: E.g. in case of bacterial pathogens you can at least tell the severity.


Not at all. In quarantine I would only use meds if something turns up with a clear ID. In my experience prophylactic medication kills more fish than it saves. It also has the downside of ruining the fishes immune response. As A201 mentioned above, many fish are swimming in a solution of antibiotics and other meds before they get sold to the retailers where most of the losses occur. The massive use of meds in fish farms and wholesale is a big problem when it comes to resistant pathogens. Considering the stocking densities in those facilities necessary to earn a profit this is the only chance the providers have to prevent losses. So it's a bigger problem altogether and the wholesalers that use the right methods to prevent this are not many.

The salt treatment mentioned above is not working on everything. External parasites can be treated with that, internal parasites and bacteria can not be treated that way. Nonetheless acceptable for Malawi cichlids.

What did you mean then by suggesting I “act now?” The only i action I took was two 75%+ water changes. Thinking of another, although water remains clear & fish active, eating well & looking good. I am set up to do easy water changes.

 

With that I meant going through the diagnostic procedures available to make sure it is not something treatable. Then act accordingly.
As mentioned, you can only rule out a relatively small number of pathogens and parasites without a lab examination, but that's better than nothing. I would not let that slip through in your place.

Water changes are always a good idea, no question.

 

With that I meant going through the diagnostic procedures available to make sure it is not something treatable. Then act accordingly.
As mentioned, you can only rule out a relatively small number of pathogens and parasites without a lab examination, but that's better than nothing. I would not let that slip through in your place.

Water changes are always a good idea, no question.

Thanks, gotcha

 

Sure, you're welcome!