My otocinclus has a red blood-like spot!

Hi,
I purchased 3 otocinclus almost 2 wks ago. 1 died several day after that without reason, no bloating or redness or turning pale. The others have been doing well but suddenly I noticed a blood-like spot under 1 of my ottos stomach. He/she has been pale since the beginning but became almost transparent this morning. His color is much darker now but he just stays in 1 place at the bottom of the tank. Diet is algae for mow. They have been refusing algae wafers. Readings are 0/0/5 and 6.8 for pH. Temperature is 80+/-2F. The tank is a temporary 5 gal, cycled. I only have 1 male betta (extremely docile), 3 plants and a marimo ball with no gravel since I'll be moving them to a 10 gal soon.

P/s: I also notice some pieces of red poo if that means anything.

 

I am no help for your situation, but you need at least 6+ Otos, not just 3

 

I am unsure what is wrong with your ottos. A blood spot could be a sore or a bruise. The betta could in fact be doing something to him when you are not looking.

I do believe they need more then a ten gallon, especially since you are putting them with a betta. A twenty gallon would be great and yes they do need at least six.

 

The betta is most likely attacking him. Also, 5 gallons for otos is way too small

 

I purchased 3 Otto some time ago and two of them had the exact same red spot. They were pale, didn't eat much and I can't say I have ever had any luck feeding wafers to them. Could try some blanched zucchini? Mine just feed on algae.

Now, I never put much thought into the red spot so not 100% and haven't researched it. However, a lot of Otto are caught wild I believe. They need a constant supply of food not high in protein or they developed bloat, or bacterial infection in their digestive tract, yet when the are wild caught and shipped they are without food. Their digestive systems get disrupted and sometimes it proves fatal.

Usually this disruption in their digestive system or poor acclamation are likely causes of bad health. Being as they weren't all dead in a day or too I'll assume the former. I'm sure if you do some research into it you'll get a much better answer.

EDIT: if you don't have adequate algae to feed them and they aren't taking wafers I'd highly recommend blanching vegetables for them.

 

Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately, he passed away this morning. I'm leaving them in a 5 gal while my 10 gal is cycling. As for acclimation, I let their bag float in the tank and added some water using a turkey baster every 10-15 minutes until 75% is the tank water (took a little more than 1 hr). Is that wrong? Because I think I would like to have some more ottos since I only have 1 left now.

I am unsure what is wrong with your ottos. A blood spot could be a sore or a bruise. The betta could in fact be doing something to him when you are not looking.

I do believe they need more then a ten gallon, especially since you are putting them with a betta. A twenty gallon would be great and yes they do need at least six.

Will a 10 gal suffice if I put 6 ottos without the betta?

I purchased 3 Otto some time ago and two of them had the exact same red spot. They were pale, didn't eat much and I can't say I have ever had any luck feeding wafers to them. Could try some blanched zucchini? Mine just feed on algae.

Now, I never put much thought into the red spot so not 100% and haven't researched it. However, a lot of Otto are caught wild I believe. They need a constant supply of food not high in protein or they developed bloat, or bacterial infection in their digestive tract, yet when the are wild caught and shipped they are without food. Their digestive systems get disrupted and sometimes it proves fatal.

Usually this disruption in their digestive system or poor acclamation are likely causes of bad health. Being as they weren't all dead in a day or too I'll assume the former. I'm sure if you do some research into it you'll get a much better answer.

EDIT: if you don't have adequate algae to feed them and they aren't taking wafers I'd highly recommend blanching vegetables for them.

Thank you. I'll try blanched zucchinI with the last one I have. Is it ok if I have it in with algae still around? I'm afraid of overfeeding.

If I put my betta in another 10 gal, can I have pygmy cories instead? Or is 10 gal still too small for betta tank mates? I don't have a stand strong enough for any tank bigger than that.

 

If I put my betta in another 10 gal, can I have pygmy cories instead? Or is 10 gal still too small for betta tank mates? I don't have a stand strong enough for any tank bigger than that.

Unfortunately no pygmy cories need bigger then a ten gallon even by themselves due to their activity and again you need at least six of them. Any betta community with other fish needs at least a twenty gallon, heavily planted.

In a ten gallon you could do a betta with nerite snails, and shrimp.

 

Oto catfish are so sensitive. They are caught by cyanide poisoning (enough to render them unconscious) and they have to survive that. In addition, they need a constant supply of food or most of their bacteria which digest the algae in their tummies will die. This often happens because they are shipped in bags that has minimal algae or light. If it does, then it will not be able to properly digest its food and die from this cause within 1 week of the low food.
OK, if it made it past these issues- then they are fairly actually hardy, but are very sensitive to water changes in large Ph (greater than one unit), but also of course any nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and surprisingly more strongly with TDS.

They are nearly strictly algae eaters and most will avoid algae pellets because it also has fish meal in it. They will usually eat seaweed sheets or vegetables*. But when very young they typically avoid them, it is best to get the aquarium in a high light like >3watts per gallon with a 30 watt Led minimum or in front of a window that gets direct sun... this is because your aquariums are so small*

Also, a 5 gallon is not enough to provide the correct amount of algae, unless it is in front of a window that gets direct sun.

Edit: you would find that they still keep the algae controlled for the most part, and then it gives you an idea of how much they were starving. Right now you are starving them, so, try to get the conditions right and do not waste money on algae wafers, try uncooked cucumber- or blanched (very lightly cooked!). They will typically avoid cooked foods because they are un-accustomed to this and think it is not food or do not find it appetizing. But peel the foods.

 

Unfortunately no pygmy cories need bigger then a ten gallon even by themselves due to their activity and again you need at least six of them. Any betta community with other fish needs at least a twenty gallon, heavily planted.

In a ten gallon you could do a betta with nerite snails, and shrimp.

I see. Can nerite snail live on sand substrate? Because my 10 gal has sand substrate. I heard I have to have a planted carpet or something similar for shrimps?

Oto catfish are so sensitive. They are caught by cyanide poisoning (enough to render them unconscious) and they have to survive that. In addition, they need a constant supply of food or most of their bacteria which digest the algae in their tummies will die. This often happens because they are shipped in bags that has minimal algae or light. If it does, then it will not be able to properly digest its food and die from this cause within 1 week of the low food.
OK, if it made it past these issues- then they are fairly actually hardy, but are very sensitive to water changes in large Ph (greater than one unit), but also of course any nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, and surprisingly more strongly with TDS.

They are nearly strictly algae eaters and most will avoid algae pellets because it also has fish meal in it. They will usually eat seaweed sheets or vegetables*. But when very young they typically avoid them, it is best to get the aquarium in a high light like >3watts per gallon with a 30 watt Led minimum or in front of a window that gets direct sun... this is because your aquariums are so small*

Also, a 5 gallon is not enough to provide the correct amount of algae, unless it is in front of a window that gets direct sun.

Edit: you would find that they still keep the algae controlled for the most part, and then it gives you an idea of how much they were starving. Right now you are starving them, so, try to get the conditions right and do not waste money on algae wafers, try uncooked cucumber- or blanched (very lightly cooked!). They will typically avoid cooked foods because they are un-accustomed to this and think it is not food or do not find it appetizing. But peel the foods.

I will move my fish to a 10 gal. But then, I only have 1 otto left. He should not be alone and a 10 gal is not enough for 5-6 of them? What should I do?

 

Do not add him right away. Algae takes about 2 weeks to build into an aquarium. For now leave him alone to prevent another cycle and to have more food.... which are you cycled? Being alone should not hurt his short term viability. It should help it.

Add more light and quickly. Or at least put it in front of a window that gets good sun to start his food.

Your aquarium is too clean, which suggests algae hasnt formed yet or that there is npt enough light.

Here is my aquarium that has tons of algae eaters and the least amount of algae I have ever seen for its size, but there is still relatively very small amounts of algae you can see. This is an established aquarium

 

I see. Can nerite snail live on sand substrate? Because my 10 gal has sand substrate. I heard I have to have a planted carpet or something similar for shrimps?

They can do fine on sand. They also like to climb plants, your heater, your tank walls, any decor, and even each other.

 

Do not add anymore algae eaters right now. You have no algae.

Let me show you my shrimp tank. This is what your tank needs to look like before oto. I have none in there right now.

I have shrimp

Unlike most algae eaters, they exclusively have to eat algae or vegetables . 99%ish of the time, vegetables can only supplement it and that is because they tend to eat the algae growing on them and some of the veggies too... but not all of them. In the interI'm try seaweed sheets AND veggies, discard if he doesn't eat any food within a few hours. Let me know his progress. But right now he is eating the algae off of the plant leaves that grew in the old aquarium. But it is not much and he is starving.

Also is there another fish in there? There needs to be one to produce nitrate for the algae. If you have no other fish than the oto add one or two neon tetras (no other fish, tank is too small) + tetra safe start.

 

Do not add him right away. Algae takes about 2 weeks to build into an aquarium. For now leave him alone to prevent another cycle and to have more food.... which are you cycled? Being alone should not hurt his short term viability. It should help it.

Add more light and quickly. Or at least put it in front of a window that gets good sun to start his food.

Your aquarium is too clean, which suggests algae hasnt formed yet or that there is npt enough light.

Here is my aquarium that has tons of algae eaters and the least amount of algae I have ever seen for its size, but there is still relatively very small amounts of algae you can see. This is an established aquarium

Thank you for your info. My 5 gal has been cycled. I'm cycling my 10 gal now. When its done, I'm gonna put the betta in there and leave the otto alone in the 5 gal. I'll bring it close to the windows to make more algae.

They can do fine on sand. They also like to climb plants, your heater, your tank walls, any decor, and even each other.

Thank you. Do nerites add much bio load? How many would you suggest for a 10 gal with 1 betta?

Do not add anymore algae eaters right now. You have no algae.

Let me show you my shrimp tank. This is what your tank needs to look like before oto. I have none in there right now.

I have shrimp

Unlike most algae eaters, they exclusively have to eat algae or vegetables . 99%ish of the time, vegetables can only supplement it and that is because they tend to eat the algae growing on them and some of the veggies too... but not all of them. In the interI'm try seaweed sheets AND veggies, discard if he doesn't eat any food within a few hours. Let me know his progress. But right now he is eating the algae off of the plant leaves that grew in the old aquarium. But it is not much and he is starving.

Thank you for the pic. I'll wait until my tank gets like that to add maybe some nerites or shrimp.

 

However, it will not unless you have at least one fish in there. Do you? The algae eaters eat more algae than they produce.

Unless you add small amounts of fish food twice daily, and I mean very small.

Never mind I missed your betta comment, sorry! So, do not add more food or neon tetras. The only reason your betta is not eating the oto or picking on him is because he is poisionness to him, but if he does start, then you have to separate them.

So in summary, my advice is to add more light or the algae growth is going to be severely stunted and he will starve still, do not add anymore algae eaters until it looks terrible, with the exception of hair algae, if you get that- take it out, do not clean algae from any surfaces while it is establishing (except hair algae). Feed seaweed sheets if he will eat it.

OH and no seachem excel, and no water clarifiers these kill algae. Minimize medication usage to metrobendazole and prazipro

 

Thank you. Do nerites add much bio load? How many would you suggest for a 10 gal with 1 betta?

Nerites do have a smaller bioload compared to several other snails. I would suggest 4 or so nerites would be fine. You can feed them algae wafers, snail jello, and any raw veggis.

Your tank does not need to look like uncclewis example to have nerite snails in it.

 

Yes, but please do not add them until there is algae, especially with obligate algae eaters, like otos. Snails still need algae to be a main source of their diet or they do not do well. However snails will eat hard green algae which ottos will not, but that algae type is eaten partially by otos and does not grow as much as other types.

I said remove the hair algae because you do not have any fish that will eat it and it will use the resources other types could have. Can you add a small amount of fertizlier to your tank water? Seachem flourish? this would accelerate growth of algae and your plants.

What is your nitrate level? and can you move the marimo ball to the other tank, it is competing for resources and it is an algae that the oto won't eat.

Also leave the light on 24/7. but have 5 hours where it is off, you want a very long photoperiod. I just remembered my oto like to hide for a bit when sleeping

and @TexasDomer and @el337 for your stocking to be sure I was accurate on everything of it.

and @CindiL for your water parameters and cycling, she is the expert on that.

My biggest expertise on here is denitrification

 

If you're not able to upgrade to a 20g, I'd just rehome the lone oto.

 

I will move my fish to a 10 gal. But then, I only have 1 otto left. He should not be alone and a 10 gal is not enough for 5-6 of them? What should I do?

I didn't see this before but you can rehome the one otto, check your local pet stores to see if they would take it off your hands. Could also check any friends you have.

 

If you're not able to upgrade to a 20g, I'd just rehome the lone oto.

Thanks and great advice too, I guess I should have said that, now for your 10 gallon, before you stock it please check with us all! We will help you so that you do not end up in this situation and make sure that you get the proper aquarium size for fish you want.

 

You could keep the betta in the 5 gallon and choose from this thread to stock your 10g. If you wanted schooling fish, what about a group of celestial pearl danios, ember tetras, glowlight danios or chilI rasboras?

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/stocking-list-for-10-gallons.207629/

 

However, it will not unless you have at least one fish in there. Do you? The algae eaters eat more algae than they produce.

Unless you add small amounts of fish food twice daily, and I mean very small.

Never mind I missed your betta comment, sorry! So, do not add more food or neon tetras. The only reason your betta is not eating the oto or picking on him is because he is poisionness to him, but if he does start, then you have to separate them.

So in summary, my advice is to add more light or the algae growth is going to be severely stunted and he will starve still, do not add anymore algae eaters until it looks terrible, with the exception of hair algae, if you get that- take it out, do not clean algae from any surfaces while it is establishing (except hair algae). Feed seaweed sheets if he will eat it.

OH and no seachem excel, and no water clarifiers these kill algae. Minimize medication usage to metrobendazole and prazipro

Got it. I don't mind the light but since I don't dose CO2, won't pro-longed lighting duration kill all of the plants (they're also low light plants) ? I can move the plants too but the otto needs it. I read somewhere that I can get some rocks with tank water in a bowl, leave it by the window and put them in the tank one at a time. Does that work or does it take too long?

Yes, but please do not add them until there is algae, especially with obligate algae eaters, like otos. Snails still need algae to be a main source of their diet or they do not do well. However snails will eat hard green algae which ottos will not, but that algae type is eaten partially by otos and does not grow as much as other types.

I said remove the hair algae because you do not have any fish that will eat it and it will use the resources other types could have. Can you add a small amount of fertizlier to your tank water? Seachem flourish? this would accelerate growth of algae and your plants.

What is your nitrate level? and can you move the marimo ball to the other tank, it is competing for resources and it is an algae that the oto won't eat.

Also leave the light on 24/7. but have 5 hours where it is off, you want a very long photoperiod. I just remembered my oto like to hide for a bit when sleeping

and @TexasDomer and @el337 for your stocking to be sure I was accurate on everything of it.

and @CindiL for your water parameters and cycling, she is the expert on that.

My biggest expertise on here is denitrification

I did dose a little bit of iron and potassium. I read mixed reviews about fertilizers so I haven't tried them yet. I will look into flourish.

My parameters are ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 5

Thanks and great advice too, I guess I should have said that, now for your 10 gallon, before you stock it please check with us all! We will help you so that you do not end up in this situation and make sure that you get the proper aquarium size for fish you want.

I will next time. I saw some videos about best tank mates for betta in a 10 gal tank on YouTube and they said ottos so I chose them. Someone even put 6 pygmy cories with a betta.

You could keep the betta in the 5 gallon and choose from this thread to stock your 10g. If you wanted schooling fish, what about a group of celestial pearl danios, ember tetras, glowlight danios or chilI rasboras?

Stocking List for 10 Gallons - Aquarium Stocking Questions 207629

I really do not know yet. I originally bought the 10 gal for my betta and decided I might be able to add something else so I got the ottos, too. I planned on using the 5 gal as a QT tank. I might need to rehome my ottos.

Actually, I came back to that fish store again today and all of their ottos died off within a week. Does it mean I should not get fish from them anymore? They're my only option other than petco and petsmart.

 

If you're not planning on upgrading, I wouldn't try to get any more otos and I see no point in increasing your lighting just to grow algae for fish you're not going to keep or for any inverts for that matter. Snails can live on biofilm, fish food and vegetables not just algae. And not all snails eat algae. Even if you get nerite snails, they only really eat diatoms.

Bettas should be kept in a 20 gallon min if you wanted to attempt a community tank.

 

Yeah snails eat a wider variety but I would still wait until you have some algae to get them.

That is common for ottos to die like that. Once I bought 20 and only 3 lived in overnight shipment. And I would think you can still get fish from the store, but please do not get more otos, you do not have any tanks appropriate for them right now.

Also, this is a more expensive fish, but I happen to love them because they are easy to keep and are beautiful and are appropriate for your 10 gallon is the following:

Also it says they are best kept in schools, but they are fine alone, these are not like normal danios and when I have kept them together most of the time they hang out alone.

Most fish stores do not carry them because they are expensive and uncommon. You can find them slightly cheaper online elsewhere. Still that list has more extensive possibilities.

But, they cannot hang out with the betta.

 

Yeah snails eat a wider variety but I would still wait until you have some algae to get them.

That is common for ottos to die like that. Once I bought 20 and only 3 lived in overnight shipment. And I would think you can still get fish from the store, but please do not get more otos, you do not have any tanks appropriate for them right now.

Also, this is a more expensive fish, but I happen to love them because they are easy to keep and are beautiful and are appropriate for your 10 gallon is the following:

Also it says they are best kept in schools, but they are fine alone, these are not like normal danios and when I have kept them together most of the time they hang out alone.

Most fish stores do not carry them because they are expensive and uncommon. You can find them slightly cheaper online elsewhere. Still that list has more extensive possibilities.

Great. Thanks a lot. Just for confirmation, do I get a few of those in my 10 gal with my betta or just by themselves?

 

By themselves, I would get up to 12 of them, if you get them with no other fish for your 10 gallon. They are fairly hardy. They are as small or smaller than neon tetras. Also they get along fine with my neons.

 

Yeah snails eat a wider variety but I would still wait until you have some algae to get them.


Also, this is a more expensive fish, but I happen to love them because they are easy to keep and are beautiful and are appropriate for your 10 gallon is the following:

Also it says they are best kept in schools, but they are fine alone, these are not like normal danios and when I have kept them together most of the time they hang out alone.

Again, not all snails eat algae and they don't eat all kinds. My mystery snails never touched it. The only efficient diatom eaters are nerite snails as I've mentioned before.

CPD's need to be in a school. You can't keep them alone.

 

You are right, but I guess I was assuming that was the type he wanted. Sorry. Also, they are ideally in schools. but I guess I was saying they don't school as frequently as other danios, are more aggressive toward each other and are more calm swimmers. But yes. She is right OP, it is better to have 4 or more. I got 8. 4 died to excel, I rehomed 2 to another tank because mine weren't schooling were attacking and it annoyed me. They are beautiful fish!!! One of my favorites.

This is what the males do with each other commonly

Here is another one. Aren't they beautiful?

 

Hi, just wanted to ask how you are cycling the 10g? If you have a cycled 5 gallon it would make sense to just move the filter over to the 10 gallon for an instant cycle. What are you using to test your tank water? I'd suggest the API liquid test kit if you don't already have it.

I have 6 very happy little oto's. I have very little algae also other than brush algae and they don't touch it. I leave my lights on longer so I have a small amount of green algae but probably not enough. They do eat the pellets I put in for the sterbaI cories I have but for them specifically I put a piece of zucchinI in the tank in the morning and leave it in there for 12 hours. They spend most of their day on and off it eating. I don't blanch it, I just take a slice, pierce it a bunch of times with a fork, attach a plant weight and drop it in. My mystery snail also loves it, my nerites never have touched it.

Here is a pic of my Otos on the zucchini.

 

Hmm, you have more success with veggies than I do, do you use organic? Also I have never been able to get mine to eat wafers, which brand do you use? May be you have a different oto sp? Do you know yours? I would love to get my hands on the less picky ones. Yours look different. I will see if I can get a photo of mine

Actually I will PM you

 

Hi, just wanted to ask how you are cycling the 10g? If you have a cycled 5 gallon it would make sense to just move the filter over to the 10 gallon for an instant cycle. What are you using to test your tank water? I'd suggest the API liquid test kit if you don't already have it.

I have 6 very happy little oto's. I have very little algae also other than brush algae and they don't touch it. I leave my lights on longer so I have a small amount of green algae but probably not enough. They do eat the pellets I put in for the sterbaI cories I have but for them specifically I put a piece of zucchinI in the tank in the morning and leave it in there for 12 hours. They spend most of their day on and off it eating. I don't blanch it, I just take a slice, pierce it a bunch of times with a fork, attach a plant weight and drop it in. My mystery snail also loves it, my nerites never have touched it.

Hi, I have added a sponge to my 5 gal filter in addition to filter media since the beginning to store more bb. Then, I moved that sponge to the 10 gal. My tap water already had ammonia. I use apI liquid tests.

You are right, but I guess I was assuming that was the type he wanted. Sorry. Also, they are ideally in schools. but I guess I was saying they don't school as frequently as other danios, are more aggressive toward each other and are more calm swimmers. But yes. She is right OP, it is better to have 4 or more. I got 8. 4 died to excel, I rehomed 2 to another tank because mine weren't schooling were attacking and it annoyed me. They are beautiful fish!!! One of my favorites.

This is what the males do with each other commonly

Here is another one. Aren't they beautiful?

I will see what I can do. Maybe I will get another 10 gal cuz I really want to put my betta in the existing 10 gal and use the 5 gal as a QT/hospital tank so that I don't kill all of my plants if my betta ever gets sick.

 

Hi, I have added a sponge to my 5 gal filter in addition to filter media since the beginning to store more bb. Then, I moved that sponge to the 10 gal. My tap water already had ammonia. I use apI liquid tests.

What are the readings in the 10g? How high of ammonia do you have and how often are you replacing the ammonia for the cycle?

 

What are the readings in the 10g? How high of ammonia do you have and how often are you replacing the ammonia for the cycle?

Ammonia used to be 0.5, now its ammonia: somewhere between 0 abd 0.25, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 5. I use half tap water and half drinking water, treated. I dropped in a few pieces of pellets once when it came down 0.25, about more than a wk ago.

I have a problem now, I pierced a bunch of holes on a ZucchinI slice without skin, put in under a small stone in the tank for more than 12 hrs but haven't seen my otto touched it at all.

 

It's possible it may take them a few days to figure out its food.

 

It's possible it may take them a few days to figure out its food.

Thank you. I'll keep trying.

 

If you get picky ones like me, then I am sorry.... Can you also get seaweed sheets at a pet store? Mine even as picky as they are will eat this.

 

If you get picky ones like me, then I am sorry.... Can you also get seaweed sheets at a pet store? Mine even as picky as they are will eat this.

I'll keep trying with the ZucchinI slices for a few more days and then try seaweed sheets. How do you feed with seaweed sheets? They seem to disintegrate so quickly.

 

Oh, I put them on a clip and hold it to the bottom, I wrap it in half and whatever is not eaten in 4 hours I remove. If it is disintegrating quickly it may be, being eaten

 

Oh, I put them on a clip and hold it to the bottom, I wrap it in half and whatever is not eaten in 4 hours I remove. If it is disintegrating quickly it may be, being eaten

Ok. Thank you for the advice. I'll try that too. Is there anything I need to avoid when buying seaweed sheets? I know there can't be any salt but what about preservatives?

 

oh at the pets store they sell it and nope all of those are fine or on amazon I will show you what type if you want.

Oh and I often use the gravel vac to remove the product, opposed to hand removal...

 

oh at the pets store they sell it and nope all of those are fine or on amazon I will show you what type if you want.

Oh and I often use the gravel vac to remove the product, opposed to hand removal...

Can you show me which kind to buy on amazon please? I use gravel vac every pwc (weekly) so does that mean I have to grabel vac every time I feed him (everyday??). I heard that will remove my BB.