My newly free swimming Ramimerzi die after the 2nd day, why?

aleynoemi

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My newly free swimming fry would go to the surface and stay there until dying, which normally happens 2/3 days after, very few times I have 5 or less survivors that after the 3 or 4th day start eating the BBS. I tried Hikary first bites, vinegar eel, I tried lowering to air stone to minimal I put some java moss. it's a 5 gallon bare tank with an air stone, no parents only the fry any advice will be very welcome

Thank you!!!
 

jake37

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Not enough information. Changes in water condition, temp and similar.

Did you watch with a magnifying glass to verify if they were eating ok ? Are you doing daily water changes with water that is the same temp as what they have ?
 
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aleynoemi

aleynoemi

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Thanks Jake37. I keep the water temperature at 84F, I siphon every evening with a turkey baster and refill with 50% RO -50% Tap. The water in the breeding tank TDS is 70-90 aprox. Water parameters are great PH 6.6 They don't eat because they keep swing in the surface, the BBS (san francisco strain) falls to the bottom and the vinegar eels swim all over but the Ram fry stay at the surface until they die after the 2nd day. I turned off the sponge filter the 5 gallon tank runs only with a air stone to the minimal capacity, there is java moss, no parents only the fry in the tank. I tried Hikary first bites but it seems to make the surface dirty and its a little difficult to siphon the surface with so many fry swimming. If the fry would only swim down I think they would eat and survive but they remain in the surface.
I would highly appreciate any suggestion or advice I am sure I will find wisdom in the midst of any advice.

Thanks!!!
 

Pfrozen

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aleynoemi said:
Thanks Jake37. I keep the water temperature at 84F, I siphon every evening with a turkey baster and refill with 50% RO -50% Tap. The water in the breeding tank TDS is 70-90 aprox. Water parameters are great PH 6.6 They don't eat because they keep swing in the surface, the BBS (san francisco strain) falls to the bottom and the vinegar eels swim all over but the Ram fry stay at the surface until they die after the 2nd day. I turned off the sponge filter the 5 gallon tank runs only with a air stone to the minimal capacity, there is java moss, no parents only the fry in the tank. I tried Hikary first bites but it seems to make the surface dirty and its a little difficult to siphon the surface with so many fry swimming. If the fry would only swim down I think they would eat and survive but they remain in the surface.
I would highly appreciate any suggestion or advice I am sure I will find wisdom in the midst of any advice.

Thanks!!!
Looks like rams require a pretty narrow Ph range of 5.0 to 6.0... and dont do so well in hard water... that might be an issue, is your water hard at all?
 

jake37

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That ph part is bogus if they are tanked raised.

Pfrozen said:
Looks like rams require a pretty narrow Ph range of 5.0 to 6.0... and dont do so well in hard water... that might be an issue, is your water hard at all?
 

Pfrozen

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jake37 said:
That ph part is bogus if they are tanked raised.
Yea my bad, I assumed he drove endless miles and stood in some obscure river for 11 months, staring without blinking or eating or sleeping until Ram fry swam by. I think lots of people probably acquire rams like that. I'll let you take the lead here lol
 

jake37

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If the bbs is more than a few hours old they might have trouble eating it. I just got finished doing a batch of angelfish for the first time (2nd try) and here is what i learned:

The water goes sour very very fast - the first time i was doing 50% water change every day and had live sponge filters and the water still went bad (I had them in a 5 gallon pail) and they died (bad means ammonia crept up).
-
This second time i started with a specimen jar the first 5 days (2 of them they were still wrigglers so i didn't feed them). While i did daily water changes i still noticed the ammonia getting to 0.25 and a few were dying (I lost around 8 of 50ish the first 4 days and 2 since then - they are now free swimming for 16 days). Anyway i moved them to a net of sort that sits in the main tank so they get main tank filtration (and have larger water body for filtration). The ram fry are probably too small for the net - also i put a few drops of sachem prime in the water to neutralize any ammonia that formed after i lost 4 in one day.
-
The rams are like the angels but more fragile and smaller. Most of the people on fishlore use micro worms or vin. eels the first few days - though I would think a few hour old bbs might work. When i fed the angels bbs - initially the bbs starts at the top and i watched with a loop to make sure the fishes could eat them. If they don't eat they will die. If any of the food is able to decay at the bottom there is a chance ammonia will still spike.
--
I did find this thread that noted a person couldn't get them to eat micro worms:


---
hiraki first bite might work - i did try some of that i used a toothpick and tip in the bag and just got a little on the tip and set that in the water (i dont' know how many frys you have - i am feeding 30-40). Again i used a loop to make sure they would eat the powder stuff (most breeder recommend live to 'teach' the fish how to eat though i noticed that when the powder stuff began to fall they would chase it. There is also food called golden pearls that is very fine (I don't know how fine hikari first bite is but it is a little coarse). golden pearl comes as small as 50 micron (0.05 mm).

A few check on the web and people prefer vin. eel to bbs since the frys are too small for bbs the first few days. Also they don't die right away and decay. I think you should have try a few times - i would think if you squirt just a small amount in among the frys a few would chase it.

aleynoemi said:
Thanks Jake37. I keep the water temperature at 84F, I siphon every evening with a turkey baster and refill with 50% RO -50% Tap. The water in the breeding tank TDS is 70-90 aprox. Water parameters are great PH 6.6 They don't eat because they keep swing in the surface, the BBS (san francisco strain) falls to the bottom and the vinegar eels swim all over but the Ram fry stay at the surface until they die after the 2nd day. I turned off the sponge filter the 5 gallon tank runs only with a air stone to the minimal capacity, there is java moss, no parents only the fry in the tank. I tried Hikary first bites but it seems to make the surface dirty and its a little difficult to siphon the surface with so many fry swimming. If the fry would only swim down I think they would eat and survive but they remain in the surface.
I would highly appreciate any suggestion or advice I am sure I will find wisdom in the midst of any advice.

Thanks!!!
 
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aleynoemi

aleynoemi

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Pfrozen said:
Yea my bad, I assumed he drove endless miles and stood in some obscure river for 11 months, staring without blinking or eating or sleeping until Ram fry swam by. I think lots of people probably acquire rams like that. I'll let you take the lead here lol
I put an almond leaf and a cholla wood in the breeder tank, to try to lower the PH a little, since that is the one thing I never considered in my past batches. to see if makes a difference. thank u!!!
 
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aleynoemi

aleynoemi

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jake37 said:
If the bbs is more than a few hours old they might have trouble eating it. I just got finished doing a batch of angelfish for the first time (2nd try) and here is what i learned:

The water goes sour very very fast - the first time i was doing 50% water change every day and had live sponge filters and the water still went bad (I had them in a 5 gallon pail) and they died (bad means ammonia crept up).
-
This second time i started with a specimen jar the first 5 days (2 of them they were still wrigglers so i didn't feed them). While i did daily water changes i still noticed the ammonia getting to 0.25 and a few were dying (I lost around 8 of 50ish the first 4 days and 2 since then - they are now free swimming for 16 days). Anyway i moved them to a net of sort that sits in the main tank so they get main tank filtration (and have larger water body for filtration). The ram fry are probably too small for the net - also i put a few drops of sachem prime in the water to neutralize any ammonia that formed after i lost 4 in one day.
-
The rams are like the angels but more fragile and smaller. Most of the people on fishlore use micro worms or vin. eels the first few days - though I would think a few hour old bbs might work. When i fed the angels bbs - initially the bbs starts at the top and i watched with a loop to make sure the fishes could eat them. If they don't eat they will die. If any of the food is able to decay at the bottom there is a chance ammonia will still spike.
--
I did find this thread that noted a person couldn't get them to eat micro worms:


---
hiraki first bite might work - i did try some of that i used a toothpick and tip in the bag and just got a little on the tip and set that in the water (i dont' know how many frys you have - i am feeding 30-40). Again i used a loop to make sure they would eat the powder stuff (most breeder recommend live to 'teach' the fish how to eat though i noticed that when the powder stuff began to fall they would chase it. There is also food called golden pearls that is very fine (I don't know how fine hikari first bite is but it is a little coarse). golden pearl comes as small as 50 micron (0.05 mm).

A few check on the web and people prefer vin. eel to bbs since the frys are too small for bbs the first few days. Also they don't die right away and decay. I think you should have try a few times - i would think if you squirt just a small amount in among the frys a few would chase it.
I will try with Golden pearl, its hard to say the number of little fry if u have any tip to count them I will take it.

It would be nice to know what worked or is still working for other people with Rams breeding with the artificial method. I try with Golden Pearl to see if the powder food makes the difference.

Again thank u!!!!
 

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