55 Gallon Tank My Hobby-Fish Killing

Hey Everyone,

I started my 55 gallon with Tetra safe start about month and a half ago. The safe start seemed to do what it was supposed to do. A rise in ammonia then a decrease to 0, and then a slow rise in nitrates. I have been monitoring the water with the API masters kit and since cycling the tank initially have not had any ammonia or nitrites.

Death-1
My first batch of fish was 6 zebra danios. After about a week, I noticed that one would not eat. It quickly went downhill, over the next few days he would just kindof float around the tank and then I noticed that his eyes were kindof enlarged. The LFS advised me to remove him from the tank right away so as to not infect the others. He would not try to run from the net or anything so I just euthanized him. I never saw any white fuzz, white spots, gills that stuck out. The only diagnosis I can come up with is a weekend immune system from the trip home, the ammonia from the initial cycle with Tetra safestart.

Death-2
3 weeks have passed. Feeling confident that my tank is cycled, I take some water to the LFS and they test it just to be sure. They report, 0,0,10,8.2 ph. Excited that I have made it to this point, I pick out 4 small koi angelfish to be the new tank mates to the danios. I acclimate them over the course of about 30 min and introduce them to the tank. They were a little shy at first, but ate the bloodworms dinner that night. I go out of town for a few days and on the second day, the wife calls and says that one of the angelfish is dead. She reported that it would not eat the night before and would kind of fall over on its side before getting a burst of energy and straightening up.Water 0,0,5, 8.2 ph

Death-3
I take the deceased to the LFS and am told that he must have not traveled well and was given another one. I was also told that I took to long to acclimate and to just let it float for 5 min, then add a couple shots of tank water, wait 5 minutes, and then put him in. I did just this. The next morning I am watching the new angel and he is just kindof listing around the tank, I call the LFS and the darn thing DIES right in front of my eyes while I am talking to the guy at the store!!! Water 0,0,5,8.2 ph

Death-4
All the while, one of the larger zebra danios, actually a green glo one, has been acting really weird. After eating he would dart around the tank, and I mean FAST, but would only do this for a few minutes. I go out of town for a few days, and the wife (who I should add, really does not want to have any part in my hobby) tells me that the big green one is flying through the tank like a corkscrew, up, down, left, right, right side up, upside down. Now more prepared, I set up the emer hospital tank with the AC 20 and move the poor guy in it. The only physical symptoms I can see on the guy, is the small pink area where I would guess is the brain (on top of the head, between the eyes) is swollen and protrudes more than the other danios. His eyes also seemed to be swollen. I treat with a bacterial medication, he makes no improvements, and the next day is just floating on the top upside down breathing hard. I make the decision to put him out of his pain as well.

Death-5
This one is my fault. I have been looking online at German Blue Rams, and thought they were really cool, so I was at the LFS and I finally saw one in person. It was the only one they have had in months says the sales rep. Knowing that they are kindof difficult to keep, I hesitated, but then thought to myself, my tank is cycled, my numbers are good, I have plenty of hiding places. Excited, I made the purchase. He was dead within 4 hours. I drip acclimated him over the course of any hour. The only sign he gave was that he was breathing very fast from the time I put him in, until he died.

Death-6
This morning I am looking though my tank and noticed I was missing a danio. Well, he is dead! Cause that's what I do to fish. He is mangled to the back of the Aqueon filter intake. No signs of fuzz, ich. Just dead. The only thing I can think of is that I had a Aqueon 55 and the Aquaclear 110 running as I wanted to seed the AC before removing the Aqueon. Maybe he couldn't take the current?

I would say that overall my (living) fish just don't seem to "thrive".


Current tank stats.
Temp -77.5
Ammonia-0
Nitrites-0
Nitrates-5
Ph-8.2
GH-12

Aqueon 55, switching to an Aquaclear 110

I feed omega one flakes in the morning, and bloodworms or brine shrimp in the evening.

I am so sorry this is so long, and I appreciate everyone for their help.

Jeff- The fish killer

 

aww I'm sorry jeff for your losses.....you have done everything right but some fish just cannot handle the cycle process...even with tetra safestart...its very hard on them.....your diet is GREAT and I think about this time, things should start looking up ...also remember it could be the stock you are buying and they were stressed or sick when you got them...and the process of cycling just did them in ....dont loose faith and keep your spirits up!!!!!! now that you are completely cycled, it should be much better...MANY of us have been where you are and it DOES get better!

 

I had the same probs with one of my tanks, you are not a fish killer, Shawnie's right. Numerous times I have come back with fish to a fully cycled tank, established etc etc, and the fish is dead in a week, just can't handle it. It will get easier, keep us posted and soon you will be sharing your success with us, promise

 

I agree with Shawnie and Tigerfishy.

Do you buy all of your fish from the same LFS? I've found one store that I really trust and several that I've had "mortality" issues with.

Hang in there, though, it gets easier

 

Hey folks,

Thanks for encoragement. That means a lot!

I have two LFS that are just fish. I got the angels at 1 and the ram at the other. Just based on the condition of the tanks and the stock, I would say that they are pretty good.

I got the glo danios at Petsmart and Petsupplies Plus. Both stores seem to keep the tanks maintained pretty well.

I think the big box pet stores fish are probably the weakest, and I maybe just got unlucky with the angels. They do appear to be pretty young, the smallest has a body the size of a nickle, and the other the size of a quarter.

Thanks!

Jeff

 

Welcome to the Forum I wish it were under different circumstanes. At least the hard part should be over especially since your tank is now fully cycled. I have read that angels like an established tank so you may want to add them after a few months. Just take your time stocking and ask as many questions you need to. Good Luck, Hang in There......

 

I actually think that acclimating them longer instead of shorter would be the way to go. Also, do you have a quarantine tank set up? I think you should.

I'm so sorry for your losses. Hang in there!

Oh, and I totally get the spouse-who-isn't-into-the-hobby thing - my husband hates my fish tank.

 

I think your ram may have died due to the Ph, years ago I bought 2 golden rams and drip acclimated for 15 mins then let them go into the tank, they were dead in an hour, my ph was around 8.3 and rams like a ph or around 6-7, if the change in ph was extreme this may have caused their deaths.

 

Awwww, I am sorry for your losses. It will get better.

I agree with an above poster that you need to take more time to acclimate. I do an hour or little more when I get new fish. I also put 1 pump of Stress Coat into the bag before I poor in a 1/2 cup or little more of water after it floats for 10-15 min. in the tank for temp adjustment. I turn the tank light off before I float the bag. There after I add water every 10-15 min. I keep the light off after I add them for awhile longer. If I get sensitive fish I do the Drip Method, I did that with my Corys. You can also add Stress Coat to the tank too after you add your new fish.

 

Thanks for the replies. I agree, being that half my losses have occured so quickly, that it must be an acclimation to my hard and high PH water problem.

I will let them acclimate longer from now on.

We have very hard water as well. Any water that is left in the shower, dishwasher, side of the tank, etc will leave behind a significant residue.

I have been doing some research on RO water, and a RO/Tap mix may be a good way to go to bring the PH down to a more neurtral number and to not have such a high concentration of disolved solids.

Thanks so much!!

 

I have a water softener and RO unit in my house. So far, we've been doing a mix of the RO water and hard water from the garden tap - works well for us.

Since you already know there's a problem, you may want to just do the drop method for any new fish, instead of floating the bag. Just take a couple of hours, do a drip, let them really take some time getting adjusted to the new water.

It still surprises me that your fish store told you to take shorter to acclimate... I've never heard of anyone giving that advice before.

 

You could try adding driftwood to naturally lower the pH if you want. But if acclimated slowly (through drip), your fish should be fine in harder water.

Your water is perfect for mystery snails, btw.

I hope things go better next time around - hopefully it was just an acclimation issue.

 

My best guess, especially with the rams and angelfish, is probably your high PH. Unfortunately both of those species prefer soft, acidic water (recommended under 7.0). A lot of people say PH dosen't really matter, fish will adjust, but considering your levels are so high and their needs are more specific, this is probably why you are having trouble. Glad you are looking into the RO units...you could also try some peat and driftwood to help lower the PH, but I'm not 100% on how stable that will be over time. Good luck with your tank.

 

Awwww, Jeff, I'm so sorry.
Although I agree with a nice long acclimation time. Perhaps you should be looking at other things.
Could any contaminates have gotten in the tank?
Room Sprays, furniture polish?
Clean but no soap residue on hands or arms while cleaning or feeding?
Are all of the directions aquarium safe?
Do you have small children who could have out something in the tank?
Was it brand new when you bought it? Did you rinse it well? (I think this because the tanks could be in a warehouse where maybe pesticides are used).
Maybe there's a problem with your water co.?

Sorry, so many questions. Just trying to rule some things out..
Hang in there, I hope things start to look up for you.

 

I agree with lucy. you may want to check to make sure there are no plastic plants/thermometers/other non aquarium safe items, especially cheap leaning sponges that may leach toxins into your aquarium. air sprays are another biggie to watch our for, as lucy said. water changes can be done (a series of smaller, maybe 30 percent) over a few days, maybe a week to dilute any toxins to very small amounts. during the time, just moniter any ways outside toxins could get into the tank. you may have LFS problems, though, too.

 

yikes..that is a lot of variables to control.

I always wash my hands before I put them in the tank. I do make sure I rinse really well.

All of the decorations that I have in the tank were intended for aquarium use...whether that promises anything, I'm not so sure. I currently have some driftwood, tetra plastic plants, and a rock thing that I bought at petsmart.

My wife does burns scented candles...??? I don't think she uses air sprays...

My tank was new and I rinsed it with tap water

I don't have a lot of faith in my local water. I have a water report somewhere, I would be more interested in knowing what's in it now.

I think we are getting somewhere, I appreciate the input!

 

I burn scented candle so I don't think that would be a problem. I don't see a water conditioner listed, which one are you using?

 

I have a bottle of Prime, API Stress coat plus, and Tetra AquaSafe. I started with Stress coat, but then I read that you don't want to remove the ammonia because the benificial bacteria wouldnt have any to eat, so I got the Tetra Aquasafe since I was using the Tetra safe start, and then I bought the Prime, because I read that it would neutralize the ammonia but it would still be food for the bacteria. LOL!

 

Thanks for clarifying. Here I was hoping it was something simple like lack of conditioner.

 

Hello Citation. Sorry to hear about your losses.
Here are 2 links on pH that you may find very helpful:


and one on acclimation:
Acclimating Tropical Fish to Your Fish Tank

Great information, suggestions and thoughts from other members!
Best of luck and hang in there.
Ken:;rudolph

 

Hey Folks,

More bad news...

Fish Death-7

Noticed another glo zebra danio missing. He was stuck to the filter intake as well. The eye on the side that was stuck to the filter was puffed up. I don't think it was the symptom "pop eye" but more the force of the filter... but notzxscd sure.

I currently am running the Aqua Clear 110. The danios should be able to not get sucked in by the filter right?

Do you guys think they have parasites/ bacteria etc... or are just weak fish? My angels seem to be doing ok?

An iteresting note, only GLO danios have died, I bought 3 regular zebra danios at a dedicated LFS and they have bigger bellies and look (to my uninformed eye) to be healthier. I only have 2 glo ones left out of 6.

Water Specs- just tested this morning
ammonia-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-5

Thanks for any input.

Jeff

 

Hey Folks,

More bad news...

Fish Death-7

Noticed another glo zebra danio missing. He was stuck to the filter intake as well. The eye on the side that was stuck to the filter was puffed up. I don't think it was the symptom "pop eye" but more the force of the filter... but notzxscd sure.

I currently am running the Aqua Clear 110. The danios should be able to not get sucked in by the filter right?

Do you guys think they have parasites/ bacteria etc... or are just weak fish? My angels seem to be doing ok?

An iteresting note, only GLO danios have died, I bought 3 regular zebra danios at a dedicated LFS and they have bigger bellies and look (to my uninformed eye) to be healthier. I only have 2 glo ones left out of 6.

Water Specs- just tested this morning
ammonia-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-5

Thanks for any input.

Jeff

Aw, I am sorry you lost another fish friend.

I think they are just weak fish. A healthy fish will not get sucked onto the intake tube. I also have the AC 110 & AC 70 running on my 55. Good filters

Your Glo fish must of not been getting enough to eat before you got them. What are you feeding them? Make sure all your fish get a varied diet, it will help keep them healthy. When you go to a lfs, ask how long they have had them and look them over really good, have nice round bellies...just like your other Danios.

I'm going to share a recent story with you about 3 small Algae Eaters called KhasI Garras that I got....they were skinny and their body was bent. I'm like what would cause that. It was simple.....malnutrition. They were weak. I had one that got sucked up onto the intake tube. First off my bf ran out and got the first two. One was on the intake tube when I got home. I was bummed. The other one did not look good....just weak, bent and skinny. So, I had some filter floss that I wrapped around the intake tube so he wouldn't get sucked in. It worked like a charm! Ran out the next day and picked up the last two, one was very skinny and bent pretty good the other was nice a plump, healthy. The weak ones didn't graze on any algae for about a week, I dropped algae wafers in there, shrimp pellots, blanched zuccinni, which they LOVE. Now they have nice round bellies, are not bent anymore have grown a bit, graze on algae and other food I drop in. I was just amazed they lived.

Have a great day!

 

I'm so sorry. It is interesting that it's just the Glo-fish.
I've heard they're not that hardy but I don't know from personal experience.

AlyeskaGirl brings up an excellent point. We just don't know what they've been through before we buy them.
This all may be something completely out of your control.

 

Well folks, Things have been looking better. All my aquatic friends seem to be doing better, they are eating and growing. I think, as some have mentioned, is to get good healthy fish from the git go.

But unfortunatly, I have to add another one to the list...

Fish Death-8

One of my original zebra danios, who I got from a LFS and consider to be of high quality, is just GONE!

I don't know exactly when he dissapered. Once I realized he was gone I searched the tank high and low and he is nowhere to be found and not one sign of any remains. I checked the filter too.

The only thing I can think of is that when I went out of town for 9 days, I filled the tank up to the max so my wife wouldnt have to mess with it , and he must have jumped out and then my dog had some sushi. I don't typically see my danios swim fast enough to actually get airborn but its the only thing I can figure.

Thanks for listining...

Jeff

 

Thanks for the update!
I'm sorry about fish #8
We blame thinks like that on fish aliens.

Otherwise, I'm glad things are looking up for you and your fish.

 

I had almost the same thing happen! I know your ph is too high for the angels, I'm a newbie but maybe that is your problem right there.

 

I'm going to go with your ph is to blame. That is waaay to high for your fish. Try using filtered water from something like a britta water filter. That's what I have to do to keep my ph in the right areas.

 

Good morning. So sorry to hear about your fish loss. I'm glad to read that things are beginning to look up.

Furallicah....Could you go into a little more depth about the Britta Water Filter. I use one for my drinking water. I don't see how this would alter your pH levels as the water is only filtered through carbon, the same as many of us use in the aquarium filter. I feel that if you're letting your water sit for a day or 24/48 hours then your pH is dropping naturally and has nothing to do with the Britta Water Filter. hmmmm??? By letting your water sit out in a bucket or pitcher for the time mentioned above, prior to your water changes you're getting the true reading of your pH, compared to testing it right from the tap.

Ken

 

Thanks guys, I forgot to update my profile.

I have been doing 10% water changes twice a week with 100% RO for the last few weeks and my PH is now 7.4 down from 8.2+, and my GH and KH is 3 and 4. I also have a pair of Blue rams and they need the softer and more acidic water too. I am also using peat pellets and have a large peice of driftwood, however... I hate the yellow tint that the peat and wood give the water!!


PS. Lucy!! You are on to something...

 

Filtering with carbon will help the coloring of the water...they say. I like the golden color....and it slowly goes away. Anyway the tannins will eventually all leach out as you do the water changes. Just R/O water changes will continue to drop your Ph lower. The peat pellets are probably making the most water discoloration.

 

Sure thing Ken. When you get your water from the tap it is full of all kinds of chemicals. And several of those chemicals you could call acidity or basicity. Those two qualitys of the water determens your tap waters ph. So lets say you live out in the middle of no where and there's a flood. You turn on your tap and the water has a different taste to it? Usually that's a increase in those chemicals. Filtering your water through something like a britta water filter helps remove some if not most of those chemicals. Which lowers the ph of your tap water. Just like using bottle water it tastes different because they don't have to worry about pumping their water to people through miles of pipes that could contain god knows what. Ph is the messure of acidity or basicity of the water, the filter just helps lower the acidity of the water. My tap at my home is hard to very hard ph. I have to use a filter to lower my ph levels. From a ph of 7.8-8.1 from the tap to 7.1-7.6 after my filter. Genearlly Carbon can lower your ph for you in just your tanks filter. I like running mine through my tap water filter to help my tanks filter out a little. I find it much easier to do this to keep my ph in check. Every other week when I do my 50% water changes I do tap one week and filtered tap the next. My ph stays at 7.2 Which is perfect in my book.

 

Ok to just throw you for a loop I have taken a lot of chemistry...Hears why the filter helps. Ph is defined as the minus the decimal logarithm of the hydrogen ion activity in a solution. So bascily when you use your filter your lowering that decimal and thusly lowering your ph in the process. So your saying that your ph was 8.2 sounds like there was some acidic problems along your tap water journey to your house so that had to add a base to help cancel out the acid. Sounds like a little to much lol.

Also I find the carbon in the britta filter to be stronger then the carbon in tank filters. In a tank you don't have you worry about "cleanng" the water so much because for the most part the water is clean. That's why carbon for tanks is larger peices then in britta filters. Smaller the carbon better the cleanign effect.

Well there's my two cents :

I'll talk to my Chemistry Teacher Monday and see if she has anything else to add.

 

Jeff, I moved your last post here:


I thought it would get more attention in it's own thread.