MY first little guppy has died :(

Discussion in 'Guppy' started by LindaMS, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. LindaMS

    LindaMS Valued Member Member

    parasite.jpg

    Well as expected no amount of trying to treat ich or bacteria or columnaris etc helped her. Her friend going the same way and I have finally worked out that it must be gill flukes and tapeworm from the long worm that appeared following the pimafix and metafix doses.

    Not enough to kill the problems but probably these meds disturbed the parasites and that was the final shock to the poor fish and hastened the death.

    I have poured over so many papers anecdotal and peer reviewed in the last week that my head is brimming full of the dangers associated with keeping aquarium fish!

    Now I know I should dose every new fish in the quarantine tank with Praziquantel and I will now need a 3 week treatment regime on the current tank to clear the problem for the future.

    Seems that these parasites are common and some fish cope with them until stressed. As the flukes release their live young into the water just getting rid of dead fish and water changes won't cut it. Maybe salt...but no certainty.

    Seems like LFS are not treating their tanks. Buyer Beware! If you do not implement good husbandry.

    I just wish I had known all this before I ended up killing my two first ever fish. With my new fish (ordered from livefish.com a week ago) arriving today, I am off to the local store to get my Praziquantel. After all, we worm our dogs and cats and all other farm animals, to not do so routinely for fish makes no sense.

    Tell me this isn't a worm see attached!
     
  2. E

    Et tu Valued Member Member

    To me it looks like poop,.If fish have internal parasites, or a internal bacterial infection, they will trail long light colored poop.
     
  3. TexasDomer

    TexasDomer Fishlore Legend Member

    I'd be careful treating fish with Praziquantel. Without a necropsy, you don't know for sure what it was. I wouldn't treat every incoming fish, as not every fish will be infected and you don't want to medicate if it's not necessary. You seem to just have gotten unlucky and gotten sick fish.

    And I don't think that's a parasitic worm. (I study parasites, granted, in mammals, not fish, but I know a nematode when I see one :) ).
     




    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
  4. OP
    OP
    LindaMS

    LindaMS Valued Member Member

    She has not died yet but her mate has, she had long fine stringy 'poop' the night before she was found swimming upside down with a swollen vent area. This fish has now lost the 'whatever' and appears to be swelling around the belly/vent area and vent looks a bit red inside (not the red fine worms just like she is bleeding a little internally. Her poops were nothing like this up until yesterday,

    They both developed a patch above gill area and in the dead guppy it turned into a bit of a sore. Externally they looked nothing like as bad as some of the still living fish with huge fungus and sores - it looked fairly mild until this 'poop' thing and then dead the next day. I do not hold out much hope for this little girl.

    I will try to locate the site where I got the info that convinced me that they have flukes /internal parasites of some kind. I haven't reared fish but I was a birman breeder for 20 years in the UK and the vet school at Langford used my colony during their research on feline disease because I operated a strict blanket oxytetracycline for 6 weeks regime on every breeding cat I bought in to keep chlamydia out of my cattery. They were researching FIP at the time and wanted a number of catteries to work with that had strict feeding and other practices. I appreciate it was the total opposite to what would be recommended for antibiotic use, but the problem with meds is is a little bit (not enough) too often I believe. I was successful, my cats were healthy and I never had to repeat treatment.

    This is the source of my info.
     
    If I got sick fish then everyone buying from Petbarn must be getting similar problems whether they realise it or not. These were my first two fish, my water tests were all good and the only thing that alarmed me was the pond snails that were brought in on my driftwood from Petbarn also. I later read that these are carriers of . Hence my anxiety about the stock from there and what to do next.

    I now have two 'quickstarted' + 'stress zyme' tanks ready for the newcomers as I needed them urgently, no gravel, no weed just tested water, heat and filter.

    I did have another 90 litre ready for them but as I added plants to that I am not game yet.

    I think I should use the Praziquantel on the tank that these two have been in at the very least to ensure nothing like that is lurking.

    I am keen to hear if anyone else has dealt with anything similar to the posts I have made over the last 7 days about my girls. Especially how they saved them if they did.

    Cheers Linda
     
  5. E

    Et tu Valued Member Member

    To me it sounds like a bacterial infection.

    Big issue with using antibiotics as a prophylactic is the target bacteria become
    resistant to the meds. Once the fish has symptoms of unknown origin it's usually too late...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2015
  6. OP
    OP
    LindaMS

    LindaMS Valued Member Member

    Hi Et tu,

    I did too at first that is why I got the pimafix and metafix as recommended by Petbarn...It seemed to hasten the end, caused the 'worm like' thing to happen within 24 hours and another 24 hours later one dead. Second one was slower to be infected and is a day or two behind the first. Snails (pond) can carry flukes etc. My fish went into the tank that had about 10 tiny pond snails that came on the driftwood and I washed it but did not soak it in salt water(wont make that mistake again).

    That is partly why I think they were attacked when weakened from the power failure and all the filter, heat etc. going down for 12 hours. First two days great, power out and this came on quickly, first dead at 7 days ...
     
  7. E

    Et tu Valued Member Member

    Most fish that we buy be it a pet store or a aquarium fish store will have been produced in a fish farm, quantity is more important than quality. They get scooped, bagged, tagged, boxed and shipped with little concern for the stress it causes them. A lot of fish that we buy have been stressed/damaged and often die on our watch,to no fault of our own. Sorry that you have had to deal with this,
     
  8. g

    guppy5 Valued Member Member

    Agree, probably not ur fault. fish keeping is not as hard as it sounds. probably just stressed out little fishys.
     
  9. junebug

    junebug Fishlore Legend Member

    The thing is, Petbarn and any other big box store in your country... they probably all get their fish from the same place. Just like here in the US, most of the big pet stores get their fish from the same three suppliers. Segrest is the largest and most prominent of them.

    Smaller stores will sometimes have private suppliers, which is why it's usually best to buy from them. But that's no guarantee they don't get their generic fish from the same fish farms as the big guys - they probably do.

    It sounds to me like your guppies arrived with issues. I've found that when I bring home a sick fish, even if they survive QT, they don't survive very long unless I can pinpoint the issue within a day or two and get them the meds they need quickly.

    Even still, strict QT is necessary to maintain everyone's health and get the fish used to your water. I would suggest no less than a 6 week QT period, longer if you suspect there are issues. As for your tank, since we don't know what killed the fish and you have new ones on the way, you should clean the entire thing with a 1:9 ratio of bleach water to get rid of any parasites or bacteria that may still be present. "treating" the tank with dewormer won't do a thing, particularly if the issue is not parasitic.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    LindaMS

    LindaMS Valued Member Member

    Thanks everyone
    It makes me feel a bit better if not my little fish. I have to say I just want to breed my own and not buy in if I can only get to the point of having everyone happy and healthy. There is one seller her called Fishchic she sells online and imports her fish. Very expensive but stunning fish say $75 AUD for a trio. I will buy from her eventually, but need healthy tanks first.

    Unfortunately I have had to put my new guys all in together (not my plan) in a QT tank only 38 litres bare with airstone, filter and heater. I had no time so it had to come up using Quickstart. All water tests are good PH 7.2 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0

    I plan to change 20% water daily while they are in there is that good enough?

    I am really getting depressed about this as I got a little black guppy male to go with my other two plus one other female. Now he and she are in this QT tank alone...he will probably stress the life out of her now. I bought 5 hawaiian platys that I had intended to keep away from the guppys, 2 bristlenose catfish (one for each tank) and one seems to be a bully and the other is hiding behind filter. I had three pacific blue eyes and three white clouds. My intention was to split them between my two tanks, the 40 litre and the 90 litre.

    Now they are all in one QT space and the stress plus I now do not know if this quick start + stress zyme actually works.

    So far it is a small fortune all because I didn't know about fishlore and was not told the correct info to start with by Petbarn.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    LindaMS

    LindaMS Valued Member Member

    Hi junebug
    >>> "treating" the tank with dewormer won't do a thing, particularly if the issue is not parasitic.<<<

    I am more concerned about flukes. the are liveborn and invisible and can be carried for a while by snails. It requires 3 x treatments a week apart from what I have researched to cut their lifecycle.

    Wouldn't bleach harm
    my driftwood and plant? Ideally I would like to keep them.

    I had hoped if this little girl also dies that I could treat the tank for the suspects, then continous water changes and testing without fish for a few weeks. I also planned to run it at high temperature, for some days while doing the parasite treatment.

    Wouldn't the filter also be getting the treatment and all would be gone if there before I tried again? It is hard to tear it down and no option to go outside to bleach it is freezing cold here in Katoomba!
    Cheers
    Linda
     
  12. E

    Et tu Valued Member Member

    I have used large rubbermaid type storage tubs as a QT the fish don't mind at all. Maybe spread them out between a few of them. In fact I had a pair of jewel cichlids decide to spawn and raise their fry while they were being QT in a large storage tub!

    And while I may be wrong, I don't feel that you are dealing with flukes, everything is pointing to a bacterial infection or secondary infection from internal parasites. And I have no clue if the bacterium is gram + or gram -

    Household bleach is very effective at killing bacteria/virus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  13. S

    Stephanie2015 Valued Member Member

    Just wanted to say so sorry your going through all this. =/ I also got a lot of bad advice from my LPS and wish I had known about fish lore before too. I had a lot of losses when I got female guppies, and moss balls that came with pond snails too. I just recently rehome all my fish and starting over with fishless cycle. Hope all goes well. =]

    Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Fish Lore Aquarium Fish Forum mobile app
     




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