My First Attempt In Breeding A Second Gen Hybrid (blood Parrot Hybrid + Convict)

  1. RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    I have two Blood parrot possibly Pink Convict Hybrids. The bigger one named Sarah(My son named them all hahahh) is about 5" and regularly lays egg when left with my true Blood Parrot George.

    George like the 98% of all the true blood parrots, is possibly sterile.

    This is George.
    832F52A2-48B7-4265-8CE3-190D7213FF47_zpsvl3hi4qv.jpg

    Because Sarah is a second gen hybrid, she is quite different looking from George. She has a Pink color, which is not common in true red blood parrots(they are usually yellow, pale/white or dark red unless died).

    Some say Sarah is a Pink Convict true blood red parrot mix, some say she is a Red Devil mix with true red blood parrot.

    Sarah also does not have a prominent parrot face, can close her mouth fully. Her mouth is very similar to Convict Cichlids.


    This is Sarah with her batch of eggs that died.
    AC8DF308-B325-4CDA-803C-7588444AD98A_zpski39n6z9.jpg


    After having seen her futile effort in laying eggs, having them get fungus and eating them in next few days; I decided to see what happens if I let her mate with a non-sterile Convict Cichlid.

    My original choice was a pink Convict Cichlid. But could not find any adult ones to determine sex. I bought 2 very juvenile ones, and they both turned out to be female.

    Fast forward to Robert
    I found Robert yesterday placed in one of the marked containers as "male" and "female". Robert is a regular Convict Cichlid. I guess he is already 80% the max size convicts grow?

    Same size as Sarah or slightly longer. I decided to get him as Sarah's new boyfriend. Sarah has been always gentle with George(Well most of the time, the day I introduced George, Sarah made him get lodged between the filter intake tubing).

    This is Robert
    219A337B-1266-4811-A85C-4D56F05C47DA_zpsczbkivkb.jpg


    Yesterday, as Sarah is alone in my 18G breeding tank, I decided to just plonk him there without QT. Also Robert was kept isolated as part of a breeding pair in the LFS.

    As usual Sarah did not take kindly to the new comer. The territorial aggression was so bad that Robert was being pushed around like a dead-weight or a log.

    He was breathing heavily, stopped fleeing and was just taking pecks after pecks and ramming like a dead fish.. She was pushing him around through the tank like a dead weight. Literally.

    Here is Robert being pushed around.


    9762CAFD-95C5-42DF-B42B-6CC8E92213DD_zpscxsokj1q.jpg


    I thought just like with George, she would stop after sometime. But she did not. Even this morning I saw Robert lodged between the canister filter intake tube. And Sarah every couple of minutes was going there ramming him or pecking him. So finally after 13 hours(I hope she didn't assault him through the night), this morning I put a barrier.

    CE873386-29A0-4A32-8BCF-6058B852B5D7_zps5mf5jxym.jpg

    Convict females are usually much smaller. So I know the aggression is always from convict males. So poor Robert is finding tables have suddenly turned.

    The question is when can I lift the barrier. May be tomorrow? Will Sarah reject Robert? So many questions in my mind! I thought convicts are usually the most easily paired fish.

    I know Sarah paired in less than one day with George, But Robert being of different color and different type of pattern, I am afraid, what if Sarah doesn't see him as a potential mate at all?

    Sarah still mock charges on the divider and every time she does that, Robert runs for the crevice between the intake tube and the tank wall.

    Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
  2. Tiger-cich

    Tiger-cich New Member Member

    I guess sarah will reject robert..
     
  3. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    I hope she does not.

    Paging @chromedome52

    Robert is indeed a male Convict right? First time keeping a Convict Cichlid :)
    Here are some more pictures.

    4F0311D3-2C91-41FE-98F0-D4A68B844922_zpsaofdbrm9.jpg
    0A896658-69C6-432E-B5BB-17162D8E2BAC_zpsghqfg7qt.jpg
     




  4. Mcasella

    Mcasella Fishlore VIP Member

    With the aggression she is showing I definitely would not lift the barrier, you moved her into a smaller tank with another unknown fish. If she is charging him she has already rejected him.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    I will give them couple of days and see. Else back he goes to where he came from :(
     
  6. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    Yes, the new fish is definitely a standard Convict. From comparison with the filter tube in the corner, I'd say he could easily double in size eventually, though he is currently fully mature.

    Just because she was pushing him around and attacking him when you first put him in does not mean she has rejected him. It only means that you put another Cichlid into an aggressive Cichlid's known territory, which she immediately defended. However, he does not seem to have taken a lot of damage, which suggests that she was trying to elicit a sexual response. If she attacked outright, he would be shredded already. With a transparent divider, she may learn to accept his presence, but more importantly, he may get more territorial as he adjust to a new environment.

    There is no guarantee of what will happen. I'd give it at least a couple of weeks before trying to put them together again.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    He is currently 4.5" long. She 4" but wider.

    She was only moved to 20G from her home 50G only on Friday. Just the day before he arrived. I made a mistake right? I should have moved her, after he arrived, together?

    Is 20G small for their current sizes to breed? The tank is run by a Canister Filter and 2 air-pump driven internal filters. All media cycled. As of yesterday readings were Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 10. This tank was used to QT few donated Gold barbs before.

    This morning still whenever she is looking at him, he turns around goes into the intake tubing crevice despite she being on the other side. Well I think there is a reason behind it, I saw her yesterday even with that less than a quarter inch of water flowing above the divider, jumped over once, pushed him and went back to her side, just likethe way she came in. I was like flabbergasted.


    Nah no torn fins or marks on his body. He is swimming happily otherwise. He is clearly submissive. I can see Cichlids assume a horizontal submissive posture when confronted? She comes and hovers below him, and he will assume a a tilted horizontal posture, both do not make physical contacts, and he never ever faces her, always have his back to her. And then she checks out and goes back. This is what was happening before I put the barrier. Body contacts and physical pushing and nipping were only the first few hours.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    More terrible news. Sunday I saw Ich spots on Robert and Sarah. Once again proving how necessary it is to QT, even when getting a fish that was kept in isolation at LFS.

    So yeah stress of new fish made both Sarah and Robert Vulnerable I think.

    Anyway Sunday I started using Formaldehyde + M Green solution first course with Heat increased to 92F by Monday. This morning I saw Sarah’s Ich has gotten worse. Fearing whether she would succumb to the stupid parasite.

    Of the medicine also killed off my Cycle or at least I have 0.5ppm ammonia being detected. Since I am in the middle of Ich treatment I can’t change water also. So resorted to Stress Coat+ and Ammo lock. I know I should be staying away from that stuff.

    Today is the 3rd day after treatment started. I will dose it tonight again.

    I really hope Sarah makes it. I never had this bad case of Ich before. I also see some extra white stuff on her.

    Here are the pictures



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mcasella

    Mcasella Fishlore VIP Member

    You need to treat with meds or heat not both this will stress your fish out even more, . The extra white stuff looks like peeling slime coat - which can look pretty nasty but i'm not seeing life threatening ich on your fish, moderate, i've seen fish survive worse than that. 86 is the temp range that is easiest to maintain for ich treatment, if your tank was already up at this why would you raise it further?
    I'm trying to figure out what formaldehyde is in use for fish medicine if you could explain that?
    Get you some Prime and double or triple dose it for your tank, it will keep ammonia from being toxic to fish for 24hrs.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Ok, I turned down the heater to 30deg C(86). It was around 88 earlier. The temperature will take some time to drop as the ambient temperature inside the house is 81.

    This white-spot medication is made in UK. Here are some pictures of the outside label. Look at the last picture "Composition" for more detail.

    878EFB2E-8697-459A-B10C-164C62CD3122_zpsfb7oxt9y.jpg

    EBB389CC-1E46-423C-A94A-9592439C400E_zps7upgle1w.jpg

    93ECB0B0-57DD-42DE-A327-C1DC2DEE93D1_zpsvdo9e8we.jpg
     
  11. Mcasella

    Mcasella Fishlore VIP Member

    I understand what the base for the composition is, though it should have a water content in the bottle as well for it to be the medicine formalin.
    Keep the temp the same and do daily gravel vacs to get the dead parasite out of the tank - this method will take two weeks (at the least). When treating for ich you stick with one treatment because otherwise the meds become less effective as the temp raises as well as stressing the fish.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Sarah didn’t make it. I have had ich on fishes before. But first time I am losing one to ich. I am very sad this is the second fish death in a row for me. On Monday one of my other favourite fish, an electric blue ram was caught and killed by a cray. Now this. She was very active until yesterday.

    And I usually treat ich at 88F-90F and a dose of medicine if dealing with bigger mature fishes. So nothing I did out of ordinary than previously. I also do not know why it killed my fish in 4days flat. There was no “stoped feeding “ time or anything. She went on to her side last night and started shaking from time to time. When I went to bed that was her condition. This morning she totally stopped breathing and was covered in slime.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Ok Sarah’s losswas kind of disturbing to my kid and me. So after a lot of searching we found someone just like her last Saturday. Took our time to go find a bigger female. This time specifically told as a Hybrid between red devil male and a BPC(the LHS said, it was a King Kong parrot Hybrid female was the mother). She is bigger than our old Sarah by an inch. If she has King Kong Parrot genes I know she will become very large. Anyway my kid named her again Sarah. I call her Sarah-II.

    In the meantime Robert had finished QT(he spent a total 3weeks in there and moved to live with George and Emily my true blood parrot and a much smaller version fish same as the original Sarah who died. That Sarah and Emily were bought together in September.)

    On Tuesday night, 2 days after we got Saraha-II, I ended up adopting two Flowerhorns. One 4.5" Male and another which other too young at 2.5" to sex. In another thread here on Flowerhorn section I found out that it is a Red Dragon Flowerhorn. I know each of them will need a 65G by themselves eventually.

    So when I got the flowerhorns I put the bigger one with Sarah-II as she was already getting QT in my 18G. I was a bit scared as, I very well knew how aggressive flowerhorns can be. Flowerhorns were named as Macaroni(A take on my name) for the 4.5" and Fusilli for the small one.

    Anyway now it seems like Saharh-II and Macaroni have paired up. Initially Sarah-II did chase Macaroni a bit and did some lip-locking. Sarah-II has a Red-Devil mouth which is fully functional(unlike those truer goofy mouthed blood parrots).

    But by Wednesday evening I can see they are spending a lot of time inside the flowerport, does the dating dance(which I am familiar with) etc.

    Here are two pictures and videos. It will be great if more experienced members(such as Cichlid expert @chromedome52 ) also confirm that they are trying to mate.

    Originally I was planning to move Macaroni out to a 50G tank by himself (until I decide whether to keep him or not).

    Now if they are paired up, should I move her also along with him? Or should she go back to live with Geroge, Robert and Emily? What do you all suggest?



    C6A9F700-0321-43A8-943B-9B9BE92DE4B2_zpsnpqhd5pr.jpg

    6B66F64F-1CC3-43D9-A167-E29D93C86740_zpsmabezezg.jpg


     
  14. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    Can't give you an absolute answer, but it does appear that they are interested in one another, and in the flowerpot. Flowerhorn/Bloody Parrot crosses are well known, I think they are called Kirin? They have their own following.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    This evening when I came home I saw that they are swimming together all the time. Even resting body to body. Sometimes they go inside the flowerpot. And if one goes in after sometime the other joins in.

    So it better I don’t separate them after QT instead move to a 50G or 65G for now?

    If no aggression in such a small 18G means they may be fine in a 50G also for another 6months or so?

    Some more pictures

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    I would put them in a larger tank, but bear in mind these are two hybrids, and aggression behavior is unpredictable. Flowerhorns have a reputation for extreme violence, yet on occasion that does not show up. At this point you are the one finding out the information first hand.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Makes me nervous. Will a 50G suffice for 6 to 8months with a lot of decor to break the line of sight in case they get into a fight? Or should I mix them with my other 2 parrots and a Convict in a larger 75G or a 100 something?

    Here is a video I just took showing their current behavior.

     
  18. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Update: no eggs so far but they are extremely peaceful in the 18G. He is very protective of her too. While bottom vacuuming today, he attacked my siphon.

    I was actually moving her with the siphon to clear some debris. He was on the other side and charged 3 times on to the siphon.

    I have never ever seen a fish guarding another fish before. To actually check whether it was real, I moved the siphon to the other side close to where he was, but he didn’t charge. Then I moved it back to touch her and he charged me again.

    So I am also a bit scared to put my hands in as he is not afraid of my hand at all. He comes to the hand when I put in. She on the other hand hides in the flowerpot the moment I put my hands in.

    Yeah they are almost always swimming together or at least stay close to each other when “exploring “ my filers heater etc. Temperature is at 31Deg Celcius. And this is the temperature I have read Flowerhorns will be Super aggressive. Yet they both are like some serious couple. It’s been 4days. I am running the temperature high just as a precaution as she and he came from places I am not very comfortable.
     
  19. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    You may have to lower the temperature to get them to spawn. At 31C all their intake is going to simply maintain their metabolism. You need some of that to go to egg production.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    RonJ

    RonJ Well Known Member Member

    Of course I will lower the temperature . I will make it 30(86F) by Tuesday and then next Tuesday I will switch off the heater. May be I will also move them to to the 50G by themselves on the same day. I am yet to clean and keep the 50G but my existing canister and the DIY media reactor is enough to run on 50G. I already have enough filteration which I just to move. Letting them spawn in 50G is better right?

    Oh yeah they are eating machines and the FH swims in many different ways when he sees me maintaining eye contact and follow my hand. What I am really really impressed is that he lets her eat side by side and sometimes he lets her eat by staying put. Even during feeding I don’t see a single time they are shoving each other. They are like the dogs I had. I am really blown away now.