My Betta Isn't Getting Better After 5 Days Of Furan-2 + Kanaplex - Very Sick Betta

I have been treating my betta for five days with furan-2, kanaplex, methylene blue, and aquarium salt. On tuesday, I noticed he had lots of sores all over his body. I figured he got it from trying to go in between a plastic ornament that was in the tank. I have since taken that ornament out of his tank. Besides that, he also developed worse fin rot. Previously, seven weeks ago, he had fin rot, but it then he stopped having it, and his fins were healing. Now, his fins looks very damaged again. Today, he swam around and flashed some before returning to just lying on the floor behind a plastic empty sponge filter piece. After changing his water, he lies on the ground again, but sometimes when he swims around, he doesn't flash anymore. He sometimes appears to be breathing heavily though. During the first few days of his treatment, I would treat him with meds, but he wouldn't lie on the tank bottom all the time. So, he is getting worse.

Instead of furan-2 + kanaplex. I think I have to treat him with something else now because he hasn't shown much improvement. His sores have gotten duller, but that is it. I am thinking it was more his self healing rather than meds that made them more dull. However, the places where his sores are, they haven't changed from sores to white scales again.

still picture from today:




He has sores on both of his sides. Here is his other side:





I have metroplex, kanaplex, prazipro, methylene blue, sulfaplex, general cure, and furan-2 in my medicine drawer just in case of any health issues with my fish. I haven't used sulfaplex before, but I am leaning towards methylene blue + sulfaplex as treatment for this now. What do you think about his condition and how to treat it?

 

I'll start by saying I am no expert on meds, as I don't use much.

That being said, I think maybe his system is overwhelmed by all the treatments. Including the salt, you have given four different medications in five days. It seems like a lot to me.

Some other members can better help on medication advice.

My advice would be to just keep his tank very clean with 50% daily or every other day water changes and see if that helps him heal without meds.

 

I have been treating my betta for five days with furan-2, kanaplex, methylene blue, and aquarium salt. On tuesday, I noticed he had lots of sores all over his body. I figured he got it from trying to go in between a plastic ornament that was in the tank. I have since taken that ornament out of his tank. Besides that, he also developed worse fin rot. Previously, seven weeks ago, he had fin rot, but it then he stopped having it, and his fins were healing. Now, his fins looks very damaged again. Today, he swam around and flashed some before returning to just lying on the floor behind a plastic empty sponge filter piece. After changing his water, he lies on the ground again, but sometimes when he swims around, he doesn't flash anymore. He sometimes appears to be breathing heavily though. During the first few days of his treatment, I would treat him with meds, but he wouldn't lie on the tank bottom all the time. So, he is getting worse.

Instead of furan-2 + kanaplex. I think I have to treat him with something else now because he hasn't shown much improvement. His sores have gotten duller, but that is it. I am thinking it was more his self healing rather than meds that made them more dull. However, the places where his sores are, they haven't changed from sores to white scales again.

still picture from today:




He has sores on both of his sides. Here is his other side:





I have metroplex, kanaplex, prazipro, methylene blue, sulfaplex, general cure, and furan-2 in my medicine drawer just in case of any health issues with my fish. I haven't used sulfaplex before, but I am leaning towards methylene blue + sulfaplex as treatment for this now. What do you think about his condition and how to treat it?

What are your pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels?

 

What are your pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels?

probably about 7.7 ph. The ammonia nirite and nitrate are likely 0 as I change the whole tank water every other day while he is being treated. previously, he was in his 2.5 gallon and I changed every 7 days and every level was low.

 

He is doing much better today and was swimming around. Since yesterday, I have treated him with only sulfaplex and methylene, nothing else. I should have started with just that to begin with. I think that combination is much more mild for his condition.

 

Kanaplex has to be dosed 17-34 times more than recommended so that may explain some treatment failures.

 

He is feeling better and swims more with this milder treatment of just sulfaplex and methylene. However, his abrasions have not really healed much. His tail is starting to grow again, but the abrasions appear somewhat the same to me. Here is a picture and video of him.

While I am happy that his injuries have not gotten worse, I would like for his abrasions to heal faster. It has been about 13 days since he got them. I wonder if aquarium salt, melafix, or aloe vera from stress coat would help him heal quicker. I have aquarium salt and melafix in my room, but I don't have stress coat. Previously, I have used melafix before for a different tail rot incident, and the tail rot got worse, so I am hesitate about using it again. What do you think? Would any of those three help him in addition to my current treatment of sulfaplex and methylene blue?

EDIT: I am going to treat him with sulfaplex and a little bit of aquarium salt. I won't treat him with methylene blue for a while because I want to more clearly monitor his abrasion healing progress

 

He is feeling better and swims more with this milder treatment of just sulfaplex and methylene. However, his abrasions have not really healed much. His tail is starting to grow again, but the abrasions appear somewhat the same to me. Here is a picture and video of him.

While I am happy that his injuries have not gotten worse, I would like for his abrasions to heal faster. It has been about 13 days since he got them. I wonder if aquarium salt, melafix, or aloe vera from stress coat would help him heal quicker. I have aquarium salt and melafix in my room, but I don't have stress coat. Previously, I have used melafix before for a different tail rot incident, and the tail rot got worse, so I am hesitate about using it again. What do you think? Would any of those three help him in addition to my current treatment of sulfaplex and methylene blue?

EDIT: I am going to treat him with sulfaplex and a little bit of aquarium salt. I won't treat him with methylene blue for a while because I want to more clearly monitor his abrasion healing progress

If you seriously burned your finger it would take longer than 13 days to heal and you don't have scales to grow back! Keep his water clean, finish up the sulfaplex and methyline treatment and let him heal. His body is doing what it's supposed to. Don't use Melafix or salt on a betta to try to get a wound to heal faster. They don't work that way. Either one can do more harm than good. Just be patient keep doing good water changes and let him heal. Start throwing a bunch more stuff in there and you may create more problems for yourself than you had in the mess you just fixed.

 

He may be really weak.

I agree with other posters. Keep him on the current regimen with sulfa now and give it another week. If he backslides then..

For a weak fish this is what I have done with success

1 in tank treatment with 1 teaspoon salt per gallon increase slowly over maybe two three days. A vet has recommend up to two teaspoon per gallon but if I can use less and get good result I stick with less.You can also add stressguard by seachem to the water
2 swab the tail once or twice a week with merbromin. Not hydrogen peroxide because it can kill healthy tissue too and make things worse. Do not use merbromin and do not use hydrogen peroxide to swab the body. The best body swab recommended by a vet is betadine ( try to find pure oinment with no other inactive ingredients and dilute it down 1 part betadine to 10 parts water, or even 1 part betadine to 20 parts water. If you go this route rinse off well because betadine can istoxic in the water at certain concentration.

Inactive ingredient has injured one of my fish causing chemical burn so pay attention to inactive ingredients

Dont swab too often, once a week at the most. It stresses the fish out and can cause injury if done wrong. Read this and make sure you pay attention to detail. Back when I was new at this I attempted a swab, the fish flopped around and injured his fin even worse from that


3. twice a day bath in
A quart of water
Methylene blue, double in tank strength
Malachite green plus acriflavin , normal in tank strength
Furan-2 double dose( start with normal dose and work up if tolerated)
Kanaplex double dose( start with normal dose and work up if tolerated)
4 consider alternating #3 with the product called " tricide neo dip" it is used for sores on carp and I suggest painting it on the betta.



Your fish look very weak that is why I don't suggest strong in tank treatment. Mild in tank with twice daily strong medicated bath is more appropriate. Too strong a treatment on weak fish can kill, and I have seen it kill.


A bunch of other members have given you some really good advice. I think your biggest opponent right now is impatience. If many of us suggest the same thing, maybe it is time to try it out??? Please, we are really trying to help you,

 

A bunch of other members have given you some really good advice. I think your biggest opponent right now is impatience. If many of us suggest the same thing, maybe it is time to try it out??? Please, we are really trying to help you,

You are making lots of assumptions of me. He was breathing very heavy, so I took him off all meds except methylene blue a couple of days ago. The sulfaplex antibiotics were used as a precautionary bacteriostatic to prevent any bacteria infection rather than deal with any current bacteria. He didn't need the bactericidal nor aminoglycoside because he wasn't infected a bacteria that those focus on. He got his wounds from an ornament rather than bacteria, which he doesn't exhibit not being able to handle if any bacteria exists. He is doing fine now without breathing heavily or having difficulties like two days ago.

 

No, I did not say it was the wrong decision to take him off med. You made the RIGHT decision taking him off Kanaplex and furan. Strong treatment on weak fish can do them in.


You also made the right decision switching him to some salt, sulfaplex and methylene blue. That is appropriate. I would have done the same thing if I were you.

I came to this conclusion about impatience reading this thread and the other thread I was responding to about your other betta. The part that got me was this

He is feeling better and swims more with this milder treatment of just sulfaplex and methylene. However, his abrasions have not really healed much. His tail is starting to grow again, but the abrasions appear somewhat the same to me. Here is a picture and video of him.






While I am happy that his injuries have not gotten worse, I would like for his abrasions to heal faster. It has been about 13 days since he got them. I wonder if aquarium salt, melafix, or aloe vera from stress coat would help him heal quicker. I have aquarium salt and melafix in my room, but I don't have stress coat. Previously, I have used melafix before for a different tail rot incident, and the tail rot got worse, so I am hesitate about using it again. What do you think? Would any of those three help him in addition to my current treatment of sulfaplex and methylene blue?

That he is more active and swimming much better is great. If his behavior and level of activity improve, the wounds healing will follow.

Nothing is wrong about wanting him to feel better faster. However there is realistic expectation and unrealistic expectation. If your expectation is unrealistic and in a desperate bid you throw random med or excessive procedures at him you WILL hurt him.

He got the wound from ornament, but that is a GATEWAY for bacteria to attack him. Think about if you burn your arm badly (2nd or 3 rd degree)and don't put triple antibiotics on it, how likely is it going to blow up into a major infection? Likely, because your skin is damaged and you have an open wound and you don't have intact epidermis that would protect you from bacterial invasion. We are trying to prevent him from getting the infection because right now, because of his injury, he is more susceptible to opportunistic infection.

Whether you need aminoglycosides or sulfonamides or whatever antibiotics,depends on what bacteria latch on to him. We won't know because we don't have a lab and can't culture, so we treat based on what he responds well to. There may be bacteria colonizing on his wound, there may not be. The only way to prove it is snip a bit of the fin and send it off to the lab, which we can't do.

So he respond to sulfa, great, keep doing it. It is good as preventative. You just have to sometimes take it that the treatment regimen you are on is working and give it some time before you try to throw other stuff into the mix.

At this point I would continue with sulfa , salt and methylene blue in tank. The only other thing I would do is get the tricide-neo and swab him with that ( ok for his body and fin). Start at half or even a quarter dose, test one area first, if no adverse reaction work up to full dose

Once again, weak fish, don't be too heavy handed. Give him time.

I won't do stresscoat or melafix or any of that. Seachem's stress guard may help as an in tank treatment in addition to sulfa and salt. Use the lowest possible dose.

 

No, I did not say it was the wrong decision to take him off med.

I'm glad I could have your approval on my two previous actions because it is obvious I was looking for approval. Then, I was also glad to have been a student of yours for you to lecture at because it is great to be patronized on here.

 

I'm glad I could have your approval on my two previous actions because it is obvious I was looking for approval. Then, I was also glad to have been a student of yours for you to lecture at because it is great to be patronized on here.

I am not sure if you were being sarcastic or not.

I am here trying to help because I love fish and don't want to see any in pain or harmed. I offer my best advice based on that alone.

Who cares about approval? We just want our fish happy and healthy. I don't think you are here looking for approval either.

I don't enjoy patronizing people. I don't make money or get any satisfaction out of it. I don't learn anything from it either. Truth be told what would be best for me now is to go pick up extra shifts and earn $100 an hour, or sleep, or enjoy watching my betta sleep, or catch up on some books over the summer while I have more free time.

I am no expert, just have some practical experience. There are real experts out there who write academic papers, who take care of huge facilities such as Shedd Aquarium, who do consulting work for public aquarium from overseas. I wish I could be that but know it won't happen in this lifetime. I learn a lot from them by keeping an open mind.

If my tone came out too harsh, the intention is for you to not hurt your fish by being impatient. It can be difficult making that judgment call whether the fish is making good progress or not good enough. Earlier I tend to be more heavy handed, hurt a couple fish, and regret it dearly. I am not known to be super soft spoken, and the idea is to get the message across. However if you feel offended, then the focus is now on being offended rather than the message which really serves nobody. It does not serve your fish, for sure, and I somehow wish I could convey the message without making you upset. Heck, I care about your fish. If it was not for that I would not be spending time here. It is nothing about me and nothing about you. If it was notmfor this fish we would not be here talking back and forth on the forum. If that does not help your fish, well, I did my best and that's all I've got. I hope your fish makes full recovery.

 

I'm no expert, but I've had the same issue with my betta and the medications I've tried never worked. Except hydrogen peroxide.

Purchase hydrogen peroxide from your pharmacy.

Take your betta out of the tank. Put him on a damp tissue or your wet hand. Cover his face with your finger (without touching him) or with tissue, this is to calm him down, or else, he will try to jump. Since he can breath out of air, he will be okay. Hydrogen peroxide will kill the bacteria without causing him any harm.

Apply hydrogen peroxide with a clean brush (a new, never used watercolor brush can be purchased) on his affected fins on both sides. You can put him in the tank after the application.

Hydrogen peroxide is not harmful for the tank too, but it doesn't work as a treatment if you add it into the tank. It decomposes into oxygen gas in the water. And it is added to the water when transporting fishes to provide more oxygen.

Then, wait for him to get better. He will be treated fully in a month, the areas you applied hydrogen peroxide may change colours, it's normal. Do not apply the treatment again if it doesn't seem to be necessary. Keeping him out of the tank and applying medicine causes stress.

Good luck!

 

True that. Last resort treatment IMHO though, because Hydrogen Peroxide is a strong oxidizer. It oxidizes ( nuke) some healthy tissue as well and you can't see where you apply it since it is clear making it a lot trickier.



When I do this surgery I put my betta on a plate on top of wet paper towel. Then I use wet folded paper towel to hold him down without any additional pressure from my hands. I usually cover him all the way exposing only the tail or maybe a little bit more of his body. Some fish flops super hard and covering just the head is not enough, some just let you do your thing and lay still just with the head covered.

 

My betta is doing well. His behavior is pretty active, and he acts pretty healthy. At this point, I think of his abrasion marks as more like scars rather than open sores. The bottom part of the scales are closed, and it will just take some time before they become white color if they ever do again, but I am not so worried about it anymore. His tail also started to heal more since about three days ago, there is clear webbing starting to connect and grow. I expect him to have a long, but full recovery. Currently, I treat him with just methylene blue and sulfaplex, but sulfaplex just as a bacteria prevention medication. However, I am less reliant and dependent on medications at this point.

 

His behavior is well and active. However, it looks like some flesh eating bacteria is effecting his face, so I switched him back to kanaplex+furan-2. It has been 20 days since I started with that then switched him to sulfaplex for a while. However, I put him back to kanaplex+furan-2 because now I think he has a flesh eating bacteria. I think it is columnaris. In addition, if whatever he has is resistant to those bacteria, I am doing aggressive aquarium salt treatments. I put .8tsp /gallon in his 2.5 gallon tank, and I do two-three 30 minute 2.5tsp/gallon aquarium salt with double strength methylene blue baths.

Likewise, I think another betta of mine has columaris. That betta doesn't have redness like this one. He has a few vertical white stripes that I originally thought were some kind of stress stripes. That betta is doing worse than this one because he is very inactive. He simply stays still for 30 minutes; then, he moves to another location for 30 minutes -- very lathargic. However, I started aggressive salt treatments for that betta too, and I think the 2.5tsp/gallon salt baths is what is what is going to help turn around his illness. That betta has been ill for about 10 days. I might have cross contaminated columnaris to both of these bettas.

Pictures from right now:







For the picture of my other betta, you can see how the lightness of his scale area was difficult for me to zero in that it was scale damage -- likely columaris. Picture from two days ago:




Whatever flesh eating bacteria, maybe columaris, that they each or both have, it is pretty slow instead of quick killing them. I am hopeful that the aggressive aquarium salt and antibiotics will help them each turn around and become well again.