My 250L tropical aquarium

mrsP

Member
I was just enjoying my tank and thought you might like to see some of photos too, I'll attach them to the end. Tank is 250 litres, or 66 US gallons, planted, and I have a lot of fish in there. Stocking includes:

6 goldfish, accidental spawn around year ago, so I grew them myself
Hillstream loaches, bought 5, spawned, no idea how many there are now, but LOTS
1 bristle nose pleco
2 otos
6 yoyo loaches
Guppy / Endler hybrids, dozens of them
snails
3 clams
female betta

I had 2 female guppies and bought 3 endler males from my lfs, as they had lovely colors, and I wanted some small fish. They didn't have any females, but they breed easily, to now I have lots of exiting color hybrids. There are neon oranges mixed with opalecent blue or white and black, or blue, orange and black, or black and orange, or nearly see-through females with yellowish color (I imagine that they give that lovely pearly color to offspring that I regulary see). There are nearly every finn shapes you can think of, and no 2 fish are the same. I specially love couple of males that have neon orange tail with black markings, and opalecent pearl and blue snakeskin sides.

Every information about Hillstream loaches say that they need high flow tank. Mine is not high flow, but moderate, and I have quite a lot of plants there. However, they breed. I originally bought 5, since I thought that might be nice, minimum number of them to that size tank. Oh well, they spawned (story of that is somewhere in forum) and now I have absolutely no clue how many there are, since I see juveniles all over. I love it!

I got yoyos because I hade literally hundreds of snails, but they don't seem to eat that much of them, or I just don't notice that. However, they are fun to watch, and look hilarious when they sleep on their side somewhere. They definetly caused some concern before I realised they just sleep that way.

And my darling betta. She's lovely, and she was some of my nearly first fish I got. She's always lived with others since I got her, and never had any problems even when people generally say that bettas don't tolerate other fish. I disagree. I've always had betta or two in my tank, and never had any problems. There might be few reasons to it, I've always had planted tanks, and fed my fish well. And keep water quality good. I think those are main things to be able to keep quite "aggressive" fish with others. She does have couple of favorite hang out spots, but she's not too jealous if some other fish share it with her.
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Lebeeze

Member
Thats a nice looking tank! Probably crazy overstocked and I'm not sure about the loaches and what temp they like but goldfish like cooler temps.

I'm sure you keep up on your water changes and maintenence as the tank looks nice and clean!
 

V1K

Member
Really cool and sort of surprising tank that you have! 6 goldfish, yet triving plants with no bitemarks is something people struggle to achieve. I didn't know guppys and Endlers crossbreed! And I've never heard of someone keeping clams in a tank, what species are they? Looks a bit crowded, but I guess if everyone's breeding, it's somehow ok

I too have hillstream loaches in my 112 litre tank. Bought 5, one died, others doing fine. Not yet sure about their sex, I think one is female and the rest are males, but honestly I cannot tell. I don't have high hopes about them breeding, because they live with 6 rosy barbs, that so far manage to eat all of their own eggs and fry, so it'll probably be the same with the loaches. But how did yours manage to grow up with all those goldfish and guppies?
 
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mrsP

Member
I'm sure it's overstocked, but as long as water quality is good and fish are healthy, I'm ok with it. I might rehome largest goldfish if someone would take it, but otherwise I'll keep that too. Goldfish do eat that largest, bushy plant (Pogostemon stellatus Octopus), but it grows quickly and looks good anyway. I do need to trim it regulary. Also, it's good for golfish to eat it, natural diet for them. My tank is in 22 degrees Celcius, and those fish have grown in that temp since fry, and doing well.

My hillstreams actually spawned in emergency situation. My 150 litre tank bottom cracked and I had to put all my plants and fish (golfish were around 2cm at that time, and only few guppies, hillstreams, etc, story somewhere here) to my 20 litre (5 gallon) tank until I got new, this 250 litre tank. Hillstreams actually spawned in the small tank, and after I had set up new tank and transferred all fish and most of plants there, I noticed mystery fry in small tank. They ended up being hillstreams, and as I had put most of plants to new tank, a lot of frys grew up in that too. I have no idea how they survived alive, but there they are. Can't be too bad.
 

NofishB4

Member
Your tank is lovely. I’m glad it brings you so much joy. I too have unconventional stocking, including a female betta, that is working very well so far. I’m jealous of your hillstreams as I would love to have some but I’m fully stocked. They are on my shortlist if I get a new tank though!!

I think the key with bettas is a larger tank, with cover (they don’t have to be real plants) that break up line of sight and provide hiding spots.
 

Aprilbeingbasic

Member
Im planning on setting up my 2nd tank as a hillstream breeder. Do you sell yours?
 

goldface

Member
Beautiful tank you got there, and as a goldfish keeper myself, I've got to say those are some lovely looking fantails.

It's also nice to see someone else keeping clams. I'm surprised they're not more popular. I harvested my own from a local lake, and after nearly a year, I have to say they're very easy, much like a lot of other inverts. I don't even know how many I have.

I never bought into the argument that bettas aren't good community fish. I personally know someone that keeps a male betta in a 6g cube with some male guppies with zero issues. It's heavily planted, but, frankly, with the dimensions it likely makes little difference.

Your stocking may be unconventional, but so is mine
 
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mrsP

Member
I think unconventional stocking might work, and often does, if you try to treat your tank as an ecosystem. I try to think what role every creature plays there, and hillstreams eat aufwuch from glass and other surfaces. Goldfish eat plants and string algae if there is any (not any more, since they ate all of it), small hybrids eat tiny things and might get eaten, and clams are filter feeders. I haven't sold any hillstreams, but if they start to breed regulary, I need lo look into that.

I think the key to keep betta happily with other fish is to meet their requirements regardless of other fish, give them space, cover, and food, and not too aggressive companions.

It's really nice to hear about other people's surprising, and working, tanks.
 

Biz

Member
lol, is that a peace lilly behind the tank? Must be why your fish get along so well. This is such a beautiful tank you have, I hope one day to have something that large and thriving. It must be satisfying to know you've created such a comfortable home for so many gorgeous fish, those guppies are so pretty.
 

Kribensis27

Member
What kind of clam? I’ve heard some have parasitic larvae, and the ones that live here tend to die in my tanks.
 

goldface

Member
Kribensis27 said:
What kind of clam? I’ve heard some have parasitic larvae, and the ones that live here tend to die in my tanks.
What species have you've kept?

I'm keeping Asian/golden clams (Corbicula fluminea). They are highly invasive, displacing several native species in my area, so I have no problems collecting them from the wild. In fact, they're the only species I'm able to find.

They also seem to be the more common species sold for the aquarium hobby, likely as a result of their small size and filtering capability. I wouldn't be surprised if mrsP has the same them as well.

Interesting note about the parasitic larvae. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be the case with C. fluminea. Here's an informative scientific paper on their life cycle, as well as provides insight on whats makes them so highly invasive: .
 
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mrsP

Member
I bought gold stripe clams from ebay, so they could help to keep water clearer. I bought 5, but 2 died quickly for one reason or other. Other 3 moved around a lot first, until they found places they like and have stayd there since. I check them every day to see they're still alive and feeding.

That is a peace lily, I got it from work and wanted to see if it would live and grow there, and so far it has. Every little helps to control water quality! :rolleyes: Betta actually loves to hang out in it's roots, and surprisingly allows hybrids to do same. Some larger females like to be there too at times, it might be a "girls only" area, who knows.

My main thoughts are: fish do get used to steady but not ideal water conditions and can thrive in it better than not constant try-to-get-it-ideal ones, and treating my tank as an ecosystem that it is. Everyone has it's place and niche, and if they don't need to compete about resources, they should get along well. If not, my lfs is always happy to save my bacon. Thankfully I haven't needed that yet, but perhaps I have to take some of my hybrids there eventually if they flood the tank totally.

I would love to hear and see other unconventional tank combos and thought why they work!
 

Evergreen2

Member
I'm glad to see someone else who doesn't believe in crazy tank sizes for goldfish. I am half surprised that your goldfish haven't had more snacks out of the endlers.

I think my most unconventional tank at the moment has/will have something around 30( I think 27, 14 neons, 11 glowlight, 2 Colombians had some neon deaths as of late) tetras, a juvenile redtail shark. Currently looking at the moment for a betta to add to the mix or perhaps a sorority. It is recenty setup and planted, BB has some catching up to given it came from a 10g overstocked tank to a 36g bowfront.

You are so wonderfully gusty in this stocking. I wish I had the same luck as you. I hope this continues to flourish for you!
 

V1K

Member
Evergreen2 said:
I'm glad to see someone else who doesn't believe in crazy tank sizes for goldfish.
I think what is good about this tank is that fish have more than enough swimming space, even if it's crowded. Better to have 6 goldfish in 66 gallons, than 1 in 11 gal. You can make up for the overstocking with water changes, but you can't make up for lack of space.
 

goldface

Member
mrsP said:
I would love to hear and see other unconventional tank combos and thought why they work!
I have 3 goldfish in a 55g. Two of them are commons (one being several years old and only 3.5-4" at most). The other one is called a tamasaba. I used to have a third common that was a rescue, when a guy decided to tear his pond out and no longer wanted his fish. It was in very bad shape when I took it in. No one thought it would make it. It lived with me for a year and a half before passing away. It was an old fish. They rest are all doing very well. I never had issues with water quality.
 

Evergreen2

Member
V1K said:
I think what is good about this tank is that fish have more than enough swimming space, even if it's crowded. Better to have 6 goldfish in 66 gallons, than 1 in 11 gal. You can make up for the overstocking with water changes, but you can't make up for lack of space.
Your statement doesn't make much sense. Breaking the numbers down, ignoring all fish but goldfish, that leaves you with the same ratio as what you said to sort of avoid. Obviously it depends the size of goldfish and whether or not they stunt well, you could keep two babes in 10g. I personally don't like the idea probably because of the amount of work required to keep the water pristine. But then again I am looking for a third fish to round out my trio in a 20g. So the pot calling the kettle black.
 

V1K

Member
Evergreen2 said:
Your statement doesn't make much sense. Breaking the numbers down, ignoring all fish but goldfish, that leaves you with the same ratio as what you said to sort of avoid. Obviously it depends the size of goldfish and whether or not they stunt well, you could keep two babes in 10g. I personally don't like the idea probably because of the amount of work required to keep the water pristine. But then again I am looking for a third fish to round out my trio in a 20g. So the pot calling the kettle black.
Yeah, I know I left out the other fish, just made it simpler than to name them all. What I'm saying is for the fish of the same size and the same volume per fish, is't a lesser evil to have several fish in a big tank where they at least have space and environment to explore, than have one fish in a smaller tank. IDK, it makes sense to me, maybe I'm just not saying it clearly.
 

Evergreen2

Member
Perhaps, it is late for me.

I'm just happy that it works for OP.
 
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mrsP

Member
I usually have at least one cup of coffee sitting down in front of my aquarium and watching it. Yesterday I noticed this:


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Yoyo in the middle tube was sleeping (or whatever they do in those tubes) and it was resting it's head ON A SNAIL. Yes, that idiot was using a snail as a pillow! I sure hope it was saving it for breakfast too, but somehow I doubt it... :rolleyes:
 
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mrsP

Member
Last summer I bought 10 shrimps, 5 yellow and 5 red cherries, and they lived in 25 litre tank. One by one 7 of them either died or jumped out, and I have no clue why. Eventually I transferred remaining 2 reds and 1 yellow to 250 litre tank thinking that they may get eaten, but they also might live there more comfortably. I rarely see them and I tend to forget they excist. However, I just saw yellow, both adult reds and 5 juvenile reds. 5 juveniles, that have obviously grown in there, wow! :eek: Only creatures that haven't been breeding there are yoyos and otos, yet.
 
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mrsP

Member
I've been seeing breeding behavior in hillstreams, and today I transferred female in question with 1 male and one possibly male to small tank in hopes to get more fry. So far they seem to be behaving as usual, so no consernes there. The small tank is right next to where I usually sit, so it's easy to watch them. If I'm succsessful, I might eventually try to start breeding them regulary. I've noticed that they have bred succsessfully in large tank too, because there is at least one fry half the size as bigger ones. What's really interesting is that when hillstreams have black markings on greyish brown, there is at least 2 fry with black markings on white. They do look striking. There's 3 fry on this rock, and the one on left is black on white, and grown in big tank. So far I have seen only that one, so not too good survival rate there, hence the trial in small tank now. Wish me luck!

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RelaxingBettas

Member
Lebeeze said:
Thats a nice looking tank! Probably crazy overstocked and I'm not sure about the loaches and what temp they like but goldfish like cooler temps.

I'm sure you keep up on your water changes and maintenence as the tank looks nice and clean!
I believe they like a cooler tank, but I have only considered them, haven't had any yet.
There's a good video on them (and ones on clams) by Unorthodox Aquatics
I am playing with Endler's/guppy crosses as well, can't wait to see how these fry develop!
 
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mrsP

Member
I know my Hillstreams are in a bit warmer tank than ideal, but since they are breeding and fry is growing well there, I think they must feel quite comfortable. I do keep on top of water changes and cleaning both filters, and I enjoy doing it. However, I'm going to get large fluval fx series canister filter eventually as that would help a lot with both things, but it's a bit expensive for me right now.

I hope you too enjoy your hybrids, I've found they they are absolutely facinating! No two are similar, there are all possible fin forms and colours, and some are even having nice blues in them. I seem to have a lot of different color snakeskins, and vibran oranges with opalecent snakeskin is stunning combination. When they grow up and show colors, please add pictures (to here if nowhere else...) because I would love to see them! I tried to take photos of my hybrids, but that's really tricky. I managed to get one quite good about one blueish color, but colors in picture are not quite as vibrant as in real life.
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V1K

Member
mrsP said:
I tried to take photos of my hybrids, but that's really tricky. I managed to get one quite good about one blueish color, but colors in picture are not quite as vibrant as in real life.
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Something went wrong with the photo upload, I can only see the file name.
 
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mrsP

Member

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mrsP

Member
The Beast has arrived, I'm set for life.
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mrsP

Member
My hillstream loaches seem to be breeding regulary. I see these little guys every day, and all sizes from tiny 1cm to now nearly adult size. I have no idea how many I have, but I absolutely love them! My tank is far from "cold water fast flowing river tank" they are supposed to need to be comfortable, but they wouldn't be breeding if they weren't. Hmm, eventually I might need to start selling them! :rolleyes:
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V1K

Member
mrsP said:
My tank is far from "cold water fast flowing river tank" they are supposed to need to be comfortable, but they wouldn't be breeding if they weren't.
What would you say is the highest temperature your room reaches in summer? My room often gets to 27 C/ 80 F during summer heat waves, on rare occasion 29 C/ 84 F. I wonder how they will handle that...
 
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mrsP

Member
There were lots of changes today to my tank. I called to my lfc to get home delivery for few fish, 6 neon tetras, 1 male betta, and vampire shrimp. Tetras look great, betta too, but vampire shrimp had lost it's both fans in some point. I hope it will survive until it molts, and eat somehow before that. I know there are lots of things in my tank, specially in bushes, it can eat, so fingers crossed.

My 18 year old daughter insists calling bettas as Salad, so now I have Salad and Salad. Or Salad (male) and Tomato (female) as I call them, for obvious reasons.


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Salad is about half the size of Tomato, and poor boy is scared when Tomato approaches him head down, and from side, expressing breeding interest. Perhaps some day he gets it... :rolleyes: Also 3 largest goldfish and all guppies moved to my lfc, they were happy to get them. Specially goldfish, they were large and in great condition, and guppies had interesting colors, some even purples. I also added 6 quite large indian almond leaves, because my Oto hurt itself by jumping out few days ago, and I have a post about it elsewhere (Oto nearly died), but it's surprisingly good. After I got a better look about it's fins, it looks like there is no rot, but the end of tailfin has just... crumbled off? Edges are healthy looking, whiteish, like new growth, not mouldy white.


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Salad presents stress stripes easily, but eats well. I haven't seen vampire shrimp (Dracula? Yep, Dracula) since it disappeared to one of the bushes, but that's to be expected. My biggest challenge now? Learn to feed right amount, specially since one of my 2 goldfish is a bit "special", it has upper lip ripped of in some point, and it's still, slowly but surely, growing back and it makes eating more difficult. I'll get photo of it some of these days. Hillstreams love catappa leaves, and yoyos freak out if they touch them for some reason. Hilarious, just like looking a cat jump wildly up when they see something surprising and get scared.
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
You have clams! Why has nobody told me there are freshwater clams. I want one now
 
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mrsP

Member
They are quite funny! Mine moved a lot at first, but when they found a place they liked, they just dug in. I'm checking them every day or two to be sure they're still alive.
 

Kribensis27

Member
What species are they? I've been wanting a few, but I don't know what type to get.
 
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mrsP

Member
They are, or at least they were sold as Gold stripe clams. Edit, bought from ebay.
 
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mrsP

Member
I've been frustrated with water testing lately. At first when I started I got 5 in 1 water testing strips, and it also had an app that compared test result colors to parameter colors, and gave accurate(ish) results, easy to read and record for future. I've been missing that feature with Api master test kit, and I've tried to find something that would solve that particular problem. And finally yesterday I found it! I found an app to my phone, Aquarium Note, and it's brilliant! I've recorded my tank, livestock, plants, epuiptments, chemicals and dosages, and today I did pH test to try it's most interesting feature. It helps to compare results to reference colors. Oh boys and girls, IT WORKS!!! It was SO easy to check what my pH is, and it will work with all and any tests. I've seen so many people asking for help to interpetrate their test results, that it's really one app that would benefit so many of us. I don't get any benefit about saying this, but do try it, you won't regret it.
 
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mrsP

Member
My goldfish with lip problem. Seems healthy, but eating is bit clumsy.
 
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mrsP

Member
I cleand tank today, and wondered why I can't find that particular jumping Oto. Couple of hours later he was hanging out on he's favourite corner, and I noticed that swelling on he's back has gone down, and wound area has started to get smaller. Also caudal fin is growing slightly. All good, now I believe he's going to live. I can only say that even if otos tend to be on delicate side, this one is tough.
 
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mrsP

Member
WateryDreams, here's this is. My current stocking is:

Hillstream loaches, lots of them
2 goldfish, who didn't hunt and eat even guppy babies. However, I can rehome them if needed.
2 otos, will need more of them
1 bn pleco, female
2 bettas, I have another tank I can move them to
6 neon tetras, are they a problem for eating eggs or fry? They could move with bettas.
6 yoyo loaches, can rehome if needed
Neocaridina shrimps, amano shrimps, 1 vampire shrimp (filter feeder)

My tank is 24 degrees celcius, pH 6.6, getting gH and kH test on wednesday.
 

WateryDreams

Member
AggressiveAquatics said:
You have clams! Why has nobody told me there are freshwater clams. I want one now
Clams are great! I'm only familiar with the small ones, 2" I think? Have a nice sand layer but honestly, mix it - mix the sand: either very fine grain with medium grain, or, very fine grain with small/medium grain gravel. The mix is more natural to them, whereas the fine grain is "super easy". My grandfather sectioned off his 75 gallon with one side a mix of fine and medium grade sand and the other, fine sand and small gravel to see what they'd like. They seemed to split pretty even but the fine sand was the definite factor in both.

Just be REALLY careful, don't have a very deep sand layer because of the gas toxins...there's a name for this but I forget, it's where the sand substrate is too thick and doesn't get mixed around enough. Clams like to burrow down, so accidentally putting too thick of a layer to take care of them can be a risk. Stick to 2 inches unless you're sure you can stir it all up if it's deeper.

Clams are filtering species, so they filter water through them - water changes, according to my grandfather were awesome because it stirred it all up and could bring clams to the surface of the substrate. Latent fish food flakes, tuberworm pieces and fish poo were great feed for them. The better you feed your fish, the better the clams "eat". Especially the fish poo, believe it or not. They also enjoy a slow flow water current.

Do NOT use copper meds in the tank with them, it'll kill them.
mrsP said:
WateryDreams, here's this is. My current stocking is:

Hillstream loaches, lots of them
2 goldfish, who didn't hunt and eat even guppy babies. However, I can rehome them if needed.
2 otos, will need more of them
1 bn pleco, female
2 bettas, I have another tank I can move them to
6 neon tetras, are they a problem for eating eggs or fry? They could move with bettas.
6 yoyo loaches, can rehome if needed
Neocaridina shrimps, amano shrimps, 1 vampire shrimp (filter feeder)

My tank is 24 degrees celcius, pH 6.6, getting gH and kH test on wednesday.
Okay so far you have ALOT of predatory fry fishes in your tank, which makes sense because big fish = eating little fish, we can work around that. Oto's usually lay eggs on plants themselves, especially the leaves - sometimes on top, sometimes under. You'd definitely need more Oto's. Your tank is pretty predatory at this point, but we'll let that slide for a moment.

My biggest worry would be your goldfish, bettas an Yoyos.

Can you tell me tank parameters, size of tank, substrate? If you want to breed Oto's your set up is far from ideal but not impossible. I read up a couple posts about your Oto behavior, how are they doing now?
Any tank pics would be great too!

EDIT - so sorry! Remember you said 65+ in prior post but could you give me dimensions, substrate, filters and tank parameters? To get our Oto's to breed there was a temp/water process.
 
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mrsP

Member
As it happens, I just checked parameters using API master test kit. My kH and gH, and calcium tests are coming later this week.
pH 7
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0.25 (somewhere between 0 and 0.5
Temperature 24 degrees celcius
Filter: Fluval FX4
Tank size: 100 x 50 x 50cm
substrate is gravel

My otos are behaving now as usual, hanging and eating on glass or on leaf, or just chilling around. Sometimes swimming, but they're really not bothered with other fish, specially yoyos, swimming sometimes really close by. I got yoyos in hopes of them eating ramshorn snails, but that hope has been totally crushed, no freaking chanse. What comes to goldfish, I'm not sure how predatory they are, my tank was totally overrun by guppies, since no-one ate frys and they just kept on breeding. :madps: They moved to my lfs. If needed, I can rehome yoyos, since they're not doing what they were supposed to do, and goldfish too. They do look quite nice, even when one of them does have that lip problem. And I will definetly get more otos, how many would be a good start? Perhaps 10 to 15 more, to make sure there's males and females? My lfs is really good, they will order fish for next week if I want something specific and they don't have it. And bettas can move to my 25 litre tank that I have always ready, how about neons? Are they ok, or should they too move to 25? Hillstreams and Bristlenose should be fine, I would think.
 
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mrsP

Member
I got today API calcium test, and naturally used it asap. It took only 3 drops from bottle number 2, so test result is that I have Ca 60 mg/litre of water. I'm expecting to have gH and kH test tomorrow, but as first result, what does that 60 mg/L sound like?

I also contacted my lfs, and they were more than happy to arrangement about captive bred otos, bn plecos and hillstream loaches. Now I just need to re-arrange tanks, add some large plants from large tank to small, transfer Salad and Tomato there, re-home goldfish and yoyo loaches, and get bn plecos (2 males and 1 female) and 10-15 otos. The more the better. And large leaf easy plants and caves.

Should I also transfer neon gang to 25 litre tank? I really don't want to take risks with the fry. Hillstreams are breeding, and I'm eger to get plecos and otos growing.
 
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mrsP

Member
My Ca, kH and gH tests were confusing. I have 60mg/L (60ppm) of calsium, kH was 3, and gH was 9. Can it really be like that?

I'm getting small tank ready to transfer neons and bettas there, and rehome my last 2 goldfish and yoyos. Then I have predator free tank, and I'm getting 10 Otos and 2 pairs of bn plecos. Otos first and plecos when they have them, so breeding can begin. If I assume some / most of Hillstream fry have been eaten, that would mean more emerging fry, I really can't wait to see how it will go.
 
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mrsP

Member
Ok, lots has changed in my tanks. First, I put Salad and Tomato with neons to 25 litre tank. There's also large Octopus-plant, some grasses and anubia as vegitation. I also added 1 quite large indian almond leaf, as all the fish tend to come from blackwater environment and it has good properties in aquarium. It looks like this now:


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Large tank to total overhaul. Goldfish and yoyos (well, 5 out of 6 yoyos) left to my lfs, and I got instead 10 otos and huge amount of plants, including large amazon sward, 5 Hygrophila salicifolia, crypts, java fern and bunch of java moss. One yoyo avoided capture, and I saw it's tail fin from it's hideout. When it comes out, I'll catch it and relocate to fish shop too. They were a nightmare to catch... honestly, I feel sorry for fish shop workers if someone even suggests to get a certain fish of them! Never! But after predators have gone, hillstreams and shrimp have become a lot more active, and otos seem to be swimming around and munching aufwuch at their leasure. Absolutely lovely! I noticed one rcs was looking so dark, it was more like chocolate color than red.


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WateryDreams

Member
mrsP said:
As it happens, I just checked parameters using API master test kit. My kH and gH, and calcium tests are coming later this week.
pH 7
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0.25 (somewhere between 0 and 0.5
Temperature 24 degrees celcius
Filter: Fluval FX4
Tank size: 100 x 50 x 50cm
substrate is gravel

My otos are behaving now as usual, hanging and eating on glass or on leaf, or just chilling around. Sometimes swimming, but they're really not bothered with other fish, specially yoyos, swimming sometimes really close by. I got yoyos in hopes of them eating ramshorn snails, but that hope has been totally crushed, no freaking chanse. What comes to goldfish, I'm not sure how predatory they are, my tank was totally overrun by guppies, since no-one ate frys and they just kept on breeding. :madps: They moved to my lfs. If needed, I can rehome yoyos, since they're not doing what they were supposed to do, and goldfish too. They do look quite nice, even when one of them does have that lip problem. And I will definetly get more otos, how many would be a good start? Perhaps 10 to 15 more, to make sure there's males and females? My lfs is really good, they will order fish for next week if I want something specific and they don't have it. And bettas can move to my 25 litre tank that I have always ready, how about neons? Are they ok, or should they too move to 25? Hillstreams and Bristlenose should be fine, I would think.
Hi, sorry it took me awhile to get back online!

The reason I mentioned predatory fish wasn't necessarily because I thought they'd bug your ottos, which they might but more so they might slip in and eat the eggs they might lay. I'm used to (myself) swordtails which are live bearers so the fry will run for cover usually in overhanging/floating plants but for Ottos who lay their eggs all over on plants and don't guard too much, other fish could eat your fry.

Ottos aren't the best at making sure their eggs "stick" so whatever falls to the bottom, your bottom feeders get which is OK in this case! It's your mid and top dwellers that's the problem like goldfish, bettas, etc. They're curious and can scavange around your plants, which would be where the eggs are.

The more planted your tank, the better - even floating plants work good when the fry hatch.

If you have the room, 10-15 ottos is great but try and make sure there's more females than males. They're not so aggressive like other species but they are enthusiastic with a nice harem.
mrsP said:
I got today API calcium test, and naturally used it asap. It took only 3 drops from bottle number 2, so test result is that I have Ca 60 mg/litre of water. I'm expecting to have gH and kH test tomorrow, but as first result, what does that 60 mg/L sound like?

I also contacted my lfs, and they were more than happy to arrangement about captive bred otos, bn plecos and hillstream loaches. Now I just need to re-arrange tanks, add some large plants from large tank to small, transfer Salad and Tomato there, re-home goldfish and yoyo loaches, and get bn plecos (2 males and 1 female) and 10-15 otos. The more the better. And large leaf easy plants and caves.

Should I also transfer neon gang to 25 litre tank? I really don't want to take risks with the fry. Hillstreams are breeding, and I'm eger to get plecos and otos growing.
CA is a bit high but I wouldn't worry too much at this point, or about your neons - not until egg laying and you'll be able to tell because your female ottos will get REALLY fat before hand. Optimum breeding, 75 F (24 C) temp wise but you can go up to 77 (25) nice and steady and water changes (should be if you can) 72-73 F (22-23 C) no more than 30% change at a time for at LEAST 2 weeks once you see breeding behavior.

GH - 4 - 12, that's what's on the net but honestly my family went by 5 - 10.
KH - 3 - 10, on the net but my family went by 4 - 9.

Feeding your Ottos, stick to daphnia, algae wafers, and brine shrimp primarily (frozen is fine but thaw out in a cup with some tank water and have a squirt device just in case) - I'd also suggest adding some drops of vitamins because Ottos are notoriously hard to breed mainly because they're so stressed all the time. Lots of plants, less extra other fish, lots of good food with vitamins with good parameters and you might get lucky.
mrsP said:
My Ca, kH and gH tests were confusing. I have 60mg/L (60ppm) of calsium, kH was 3, and gH was 9. Can it really be like that?

I'm getting small tank ready to transfer neons and bettas there, and rehome my last 2 goldfish and yoyos. Then I have predator free tank, and I'm getting 10 Otos and 2 pairs of bn plecos. Otos first and plecos when they have them, so breeding can begin. If I assume some / most of Hillstream fry have been eaten, that would mean more emerging fry, I really can't wait to see how it will go.
You're actually in range so don't worry too much right now, this will change a bit once you see preggo ottos. Your BN plecos need to be well occupied on the bottom with sinking wafers, also your Hillstream fry might just have a chance - keep things going as is and keep an eye out.
mrsP said:
Ok, lots has changed in my tanks. First, I put Salad and Tomato with neons to 25 litre tank. There's also large Octopus-plant, some grasses and anubia as vegitation. I also added 1 quite large indian almond leaf, as all the fish tend to come from blackwater environment and it has good properties in aquarium. It looks like this now:


IMG_20210220_143750_2.jpg


Large tank to total overhaul. Goldfish and yoyos (well, 5 out of 6 yoyos) left to my lfs, and I got instead 10 otos and huge amount of plants, including large amazon sward, 5 Hygrophila salicifolia, crypts, java fern and bunch of java moss. One yoyo avoided capture, and I saw it's tail fin from it's hideout. When it comes out, I'll catch it and relocate to fish shop too. They were a nightmare to catch... honestly, I feel sorry for fish shop workers if someone even suggests to get a certain fish of them! Never! But after predators have gone, hillstreams and shrimp have become a lot more active, and otos seem to be swimming around and munching aufwuch at their leasure. Absolutely lovely! I noticed one rcs was looking so dark, it was more like chocolate color than red.


IMG_20210220_143444_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143202_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143403_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_114516_2.jpg
Looks good to me! Alot of those plants will grow in, so to speak, and provide a lot of hide away places. You're on a good road, just be patient.
 
  • Thread Starter

mrsP

Member
Hi, nice to see you back. I've tried to offer all kinds of food for my fish, 1 bn pleco, hillstreams and otos (because bettas and neons moved to 25 litre tank) in 250, but they absolutely refuse to touch any of it, including algae wafers etc. On the other hand, they can be seen to graze on glass, rocks, and plants, and have nice and plump belly. That makes me to think that they prefer aufwuch to anything else, and there's enough of it. I got 10 otos few days ago, so now I have 12, no idea about their sexes. They are all doing well, no dead bodies so far (fingers crossed here!).

Hillstreams are breeding nicely, and they seem to be most active in aquarium in morning and evening dusk. I really like my new light, that provides a full 24 hour cycle for them.

I tested my tap water just because I'm curious, and to my shock there was ammonia (1ppm) in it! So now instead of just routinely changing water every few days I'm doing water tests every other day at first, and let them guide me. So far my plants seem to use all available nitrites and nitrates, since reading is always 0 and tank has definetly been cycled. Only change in that department could be that I got my fluval fx4 a short while ago. I did include all old filter media to it, but it still might be doing a mini cycle since it has now a lot more space and media to grow bb.

Am I right to say that now I just need to wait and keep my fish happy?


IMG_20210220_143202_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143444_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143403_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_114516_2.jpg
 

WateryDreams

Member
mrsP said:
Hi, nice to see you back. I've tried to offer all kinds of food for my fish, 1 bn pleco, hillstreams and otos (because bettas and neons moved to 25 litre tank) in 250, but they absolutely refuse to touch any of it, including algae wafers etc. On the other hand, they can be seen to graze on glass, rocks, and plants, and have nice and plump belly. That makes me to think that they prefer aufwuch to anything else, and there's enough of it. I got 10 otos few days ago, so now I have 12, no idea about their sexes. They are all doing well, no dead bodies so far (fingers crossed here!).

Hillstreams are breeding nicely, and they seem to be most active in aquarium in morning and evening dusk. I really like my new light, that provides a full 24 hour cycle for them.

I tested my tap water just because I'm curious, and to my shock there was ammonia (1ppm) in it! So now instead of just routinely changing water every few days I'm doing water tests every other day at first, and let them guide me. So far my plants seem to use all available nitrites and nitrates, since reading is always 0 and tank has definetly been cycled. Only change in that department could be that I got my fluval fx4 a short while ago. I did include all old filter media to it, but it still might be doing a mini cycle since it has now a lot more space and media to grow bb.

Am I right to say that now I just need to wait and keep my fish happy?


IMG_20210220_143202_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143444_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_143403_2.jpg

IMG_20210220_114516_2.jpg
Hello right back!

Yeah let them settle in for awhile, it can take a week or two before they start turning back into little piggies for food. The tank set up looks great, especially when it finally fills out. One thing I would suggest - not right now, but maybe if you see your Ottos trying to hook up - that front right corner, fill it in with another plant and be ready to have a floating plant or two, on that right side.

When mating and breeding starts, they tend to concentrate in 1 area first so the most plants/cover the better and it looks like the right side might be it. Your Hillstreams will thank you to!

Oh wow that's a high number for tap water, but yeah I'd wait it out at this point. The plants should help the mini cycle too as your filter kicks into gear. Give it a week or two for settlement all around. You're doing everything right as far as I can tell! Hang in there!

EDIT: I forgot to say, around the 2-3 week mark watch your Ottos as they settle in. Get me some pics at that time if you can, might be able to sex or have a good guess.
 

V1K

Member
mrsP said:
Hi, nice to see you back. I've tried to offer all kinds of food for my fish, 1 bn pleco, hillstreams and otos (because bettas and neons moved to 25 litre tank) in 250, but they absolutely refuse to touch any of it, including algae wafers etc.
I don't know about other two fish, but my hillstream loaches LOVE frozed peas with skin removed. With other foods they're really slow and usually come when rosy barbs ate most of it, but with peas they come to eat ASAP
 
  • Thread Starter

mrsP

Member
Thanks, I will definatly try that!
 

WateryDreams

Member
V1K said:
I don't know about other two fish, but my hillstream loaches LOVE frozed peas with skin removed. With other foods they're really slow and usually come when rosy barbs ate most of it, but with peas they come to eat ASAP
Yeah even without the need for a digestive kick, peas seem to be king with most fish, god love them!
mrsP said:
My goldfish with lip problem. Seems healthy, but eating is bit clumsy.
Huh, do you still have this goldfish? Usually lip issues are stuck food, banging around the tank or bacterial but in the pics other than the issue you describe I don't see any cause. Can I send my cousin these pics? He's bred and raised/sold goldfish for years for ponds and such. Could it be physical, in other words, could he have always been like this since you got him/her? Anything extra you could tell me would be great.
 
  • Thread Starter

mrsP

Member
I don't have any goldfish any more, I rehomed them. However, I did breed them (accidently) myself, and that fish wasn't born with lip like that. I think it got ripped off in some accident, but it was growing back, slowly but surely. It was eating, and growing at same speed as others. You can send the image to your cousin if you like.

I ordered a few more plants today to add to larger tank. Lace plant with curly leafs, banana plant and Hygrophila pinnatifila are coming next week. I need to re-arrange some of the plants today before cleaning and doing water change to make suitable space for them.
 
  • Thread Starter

mrsP

Member
I just ordered 2 feeding dishes, live tubifex worms, copepods, seed shrimps and daphnia for my tank(s). I try to establish colonies of them to my large tank and take some of them at times to feed my predators (bettas and neons) in small tank. However, I'm not sure If daphnia is able to handle filter flow? I've turned it down to about half, what do you think? I know tubifex are fine since they live in substrate, but I'm not totally sure about others. Any hints or advice?
 

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