Multiple tank owners Please read

Whether you have actually got multiple bettas or just multiple tanks, you need to start taking some precautions especially if those tanks all contain some form of Labyrinth organ fish. We have as I am sure you have noted been having a lot of betta passings lately and it does seem that the Gouramis do have a viral problem. There may or may not be a connection but even if there is not there are some things that you all need to start to do to keep some of the probabilities of this happening to you down.

Don't use equipment between tanks and do sterilize and use a cleansing agent soak between uses even in the same tank.

Don't transfer fish between tanks.

Don't divide tanks to add more fish.

Use quarantine tanks for new fish at all times no matter what type of fish.

Wash your hands good with an antibacterial soap like Dial between tanks every time. To forget just one time can undo everything.

Do not feed your fish without a handwash in between tanks.

Right now it would probably be a good idea to have separate tank for each betta if possible but I know it is not for some of you but watch your fish and if you see anything unusual get that fish into a hospital tank and away from the others and clean that tank out well.

This problem if it is what we are thinking is viral, antibiotics do not work on viruses. They work quickly and there is not a known cure at this time so this is not something to ignore. Please be cautious. As with humans, cleanliness and care between the tanks is going to be your best defense against this.

Rose

 

Thank you, Rose.

This seems to be the iridovirus that has been killing so many members' dwarf gourami. We aren't sure, of course, as none of us have the equipment necessary to test for a viral infection.
If this is the same virus, there is no way to tell if a fish is sick. Members have purchased gourami and brought them home. Very suddenly, after a week, the little guy just stops eating and then everything goes downhill very quickly.

If possible, you may want to buy any bettas you get directly from breeders for the time being, as bettas, by nature, need to be more isolated, and a breeder is less likely to have a virus that originates from a dwarf gourami floating around the tank system. It is still always a necessity to quarantine a new fish, though.

One last request from the activism-minded one here. Please, if you've lost fish to this, let the pet store you got it from know, and let them know what you think the problem is. Even PetSmart and PetCo deserve to be told (though they likely won't apply the knowledge). This may get them to try to figure out a way to isolate their bettas from the rest of the stock, or, even better, stop ordering dwarf gourami until the distributors in Singapore get this problem under control.
__________________
The above was posted by sirdarksol on another thread and since it deals with the same issue I pasted it here also. Thank you so much.

 

Excellent advice Rose, though I am going to point out one little (nitpicky ;D) thing. Antibacterial soap will do nothing extra against the iridovirus. It's not bacterial. Just saying this so that folks who don't use antibacterial soap (like me) won't feel the need to go out and buy some. Done properly, regular soap removes the same amount of infectious material from your hands as antibacterial soap does. This is not to say that antibacterial soap won't do the job, however. Any soap should do the trick.
The important part when washing is to not rush it. Take twenty seconds and scrub scrub scrub. However far you immersed your hands, scrub another few inches beyond that. If you got in halfway up to your elbows, scrub for thirty seconds. Up to the elbows, forty. Beyond that, fifty.
(this information brought to you in part by the food-safety experts at Experior, in part by numerous colleges that have studied the effects of antibacterial soap, and in part by the letter "Q")
And: Hand sanitizers are not a replacement for washing. They just don't work if you haven't washed (and if you've washed properly, there shouldn't be anything for them to sanitize )
Lastly: Don't forget to rinse really well. The tiniest bit of soap in a tank can kill a fish. It is probably a good idea to use a clean washcloth on your hands after you've first rinsed, to help get the last of the residue off of your hands.

Thank you again, Rose, for bringing this info to us.
I hope everybody's tanks are doing well.

Edit: Don't do that to me. I sat staring at that second post, trying to figure out why it looked so familiar. ;D Ugh... I feel old.

 

I thought she was talking to herself by saying hI rose hahahah then I saw the lil edit line after

my brunette moment of the day!

 

Please also rinse your hands after using the hand sanitizer. It is a large portion alcohol and aloe. Your fish won't like the alcohol.
There is a product called Net Soak by jungle that is good to keep your nets in between uses. You can also use Methylene Blue. The MB will dye your white nets blue but not harm them. The Net soak won't dye nets. You don't have to rinse the nets after being in either soak.
Carol

 

Thank you for posting this, Rose; it's a very good reminder of all the steps needed to keep from spreading disease.

I do have a few questions to make sure I'm doing my best to keep my babies healthy.

How can I sterilize a siphon between uses in different tanks? Or would it be better to use a separate siphon for each tank?

I use tweezers to feed my bettas their bloodworms, and I already have one pair per tank, but do I need to get separate pairs for each of the bettas in the divided tank? Or is that a moot point since they're already sharing water?

And lastly, since I use tweezers for feeding, my hands don't come in contact with the water. Is it still necessary to wash my hands between tanks? I ask because I have eczema on my hands so repeated washing really dries out the skin.

Again, thanks for this thread and it might even be a good idea to sticky it.

 

This is now affecting betta's? I lost my male dwarf gourami a month or 2 ago he just stopped eating and then he was gone in 2 days.

 

Whether you have actually got multiple bettas or just multiple tanks, you need to start taking some precautions especially if those tanks all contain some form of Labyrinth organ fish. We have as I am sure you have noted been having a lot of betta passings lately and it does seem that the Gouramis do have a viral problem. There may or may not be a connection but even if there is not there are some things that you all need to start to do to keep some of the probabilities of this happening to you down.

Don't use equipment between tanks and do sterilize and use a cleansing agent soak between uses even in the same tank.

Don't transfer fish between tanks.

Don't divide tanks to add more fish.

Use quarantine tanks for new fish at all times no matter what type of fish.

Wash your hands good with an antibacterial soap like Dial between tanks every time. To forget just one time can undo everything.

Do not feed your fish without a handwash in between tanks.

Right now it would probably be a good idea to have separate tank for each betta if possible but I know it is not for some of you but watch your fish and if you see anything unusual get that fish into a hospital tank and away from the others and clean that tank out well.

This problem if it is what we are thinking is viral, antibiotics do not work on viruses. They work quickly and there is not a known cure at this time so this is not something to ignore. Please be cautious. As with humans, cleanliness and care between the tanks is going to be your best defense against this.

Rose

x I was going to make a post on this myself. I am one is learning from most of the cautions above.
Betta & labyrinth fish are sensitive fish and need these precautions. As do all fish. Some fish like cichlids may not be effected by the virus etc...but they can pass it along through rocks, substrate, wood, decor & plants real/fake.


Glad you already did it (no long post for me to type)

Please also rinse your hands after using the hand sanitizer. It is a large portion alcohol and aloe. Your fish won't like the alcohol.
There is a product called Net Soak by jungle that is good to keep your nets in between uses. You can also use Methylene Blue. The MB will dye your white nets blue but not harm them. The Net soak won't dye nets. You don't have to rinse the nets after being in either soak.
Carol

I never thought to do that with nets, tools etc.

 

To sanitize a siphon, you could run bleach through it, followed by a solution of dechlorinator.
Or you could, I believe (I have not had this confirmed yet. Could one of you chemistry minded people either confirm or deny this?) use pure rubbing alcohol, then rinse it out with hot water. I believe that the alcohol will fully evaporate after a bit, leaving no trace.

 

Based on a post earlier today in the Stickied Posts of the Freshwater fish Disease Board by sirdarksol. I would consider this a wonderful suggestion for any fish with the symptoms of this disease:

Rose


Edit: Okay, folks. I have a completely untested theory based on something Dave said in another thread. This disease leaves the fish too weak to swim, meaning they spend their time on the bottom of the tank.
It is possible (not likely, considering the other symptoms, but right now, I want to give you all as many options as possible) that what is killing gourami and bettas is not, directly, iridovirus. Instead, it may be that they are dying by drowning.
Dave suggested putting the fish in a floating container that allows them to sit nearer the surface. If it's easier for the fish to reach the surface, it may not drown. Some viruses (think cold or flu) just have a certain duration before the body can fight it off. If you survive the symptoms, your body will recover.
Again, I do not want to get anybody's hopes up too much, but it's something to be tested. Trying everything available to us is the least we can do.

 

Based on a post earlier today in the Stickied Posts of the Freshwater fish Disease Board by sirdarksol. I would consider this a wonderful suggestion for any fish with the symptoms of this disease:

Rose


Edit: Okay, folks. I have a completely untested theory based on something Dave said in another thread. This disease leaves the fish too weak to swim, meaning they spend their time on the bottom of the tank.
It is possible (not likely, considering the other symptoms, but right now, I want to give you all as many options as possible) that what is killing gourami and bettas is not, directly, iridovirus. Instead, it may be that they are dying by drowning.
Dave suggested putting the fish in a floating container that allows them to sit nearer the surface. If it's easier for the fish to reach the surface, it may not drown. Some viruses (think cold or flu) just have a certain duration before the body can fight it off. If you survive the symptoms, your body will recover.
Again, I do not want to get anybody's hopes up too much, but it's something to be tested. Trying everything available to us is the least we can do.

I did that with Holly & Buster it obviously didn't help. I had them in breeder traps.

 

I use NetSoak all the time and the nice thing about it is there is a color change in the solution when it is needing to be changed. It has an active ingredient of Potassium Permanganate which is a powerful disinfectant and will turn your walls and hands very purple if spilled so you need to be cautious when you use it but it works very well. I do like it very much and it is not overly expensive. Methylene Blue is also not that expensive and does a fine job but will also stain so you need to be careful in not dripping it around. (but if the alternative is sick fish a little caution is a small price to pay, hey?)

Rose

 

I use NetSoak all the time and the nice thing about it is there is a color change in the solution when it is needing to be changed. It has an active ingredient of Potassium Permanganate which is a powerful disinfectant and will turn your walls and hands very purple if spilled so you need to be cautious when you use it but it works very well. I do like it very much and it is not overly expensive. Methylene Blue is also not that expensive and does a fine job but will also stain so you need to be careful in not dripping it around. (but if the alternative is sick fish a little caution is a small price to pay, hey?)

Rose

Thanks for the tip.

 

To sanitize a siphon, you could run bleach through it, followed by a solution of dechlorinator.
Or you could, I believe (I have not had this confirmed yet. Could one of you chemistry minded people either confirm or deny this?) use pure rubbing alcohol, then rinse it out with hot water. I believe that the alcohol will fully evaporate after a bit, leaving no trace.

I frequently clean my siphon tubes with bleach and then rinse and dechlor without any adverse reactions from the tank.
I have been taught alcohol doesn't kill germs unless friction is applied and allowed to dry.
What about peroxide? If it gets in the tank it will break apart into its components and be harmless.
carol

 

Didn't know that about alcohol. I know that, on hands, it won't do anything unless the surface oil is broken up (alcohol and oil don't mix, and the oil has a stronger bond, so a "spritzing" of sanitizer doesn't work). I didn't think about how it would affect other things.

Anyway, bleach is a better anti-virus, in my opinion. My wife doesn't know if peroxide breaks viruses down or not, but if it does, that would be a decent option, too.

 

Peroxide would work but take longer. It changes to oxygen and water when exposed to air so a lot of times I have seen it even recommended to use to increase the oxygen level in a tank in a hurry but I am not going to try it that way. But I do have books that say if you pour it into the tank when it is low on oxygen it will raise the oxygen level without hurting the fish. So I know that it is not toxic to fish. But to disinfect with it would take much longer so it would have to be a soak and would lose its potency totally overnight.

I also do not know about its ability to break down viral infectants.

Rose

 

I've used peroxide to kill algae on delicate plants and not worried about it getting in the tank. I still think a good hand washing with soap and thorough rinsing does more toward not transferring nasties from one tank to another.
Bleach has been my disinfectant of choice with good results and Net soak for nets and equipment.
Carol

 

That would be my choice to. It is what I use exclusively and never had it fail me.

Rose

 

I've used peroxide to kill algae on delicate plants and not worried about it getting in the tank. I still think a good hand washing with soap and thorough rinsing does more toward not transferring nasties from one tank to another.
Bleach has been my disinfectant of choice with good results and Net soak for nets and equipment.
Carol

Do you dilute the peroxide before you pour it on a plant?

 

Do you dilute the peroxide before you pour it on a plant?

Actually what I did was dip the plant in peroxide. I have also used a syringe and squirted peroxide on plants in the tank. I used it to spot clean algae off of my favorite Anubias.

It changes to oxygen and water when exposed to air so a lot of times I have seen it even recommended to use to increase the oxygen level in a tank in a hurry but I am not going to try it that way. But I do have books that say if you pour it into the tank when it is low on oxygen it will raise the oxygen level without hurting the fish.

If the oxygen level is that low a water change needs to be done or a bubbler added. Even though peroxide is fairly safe a chemical is a chemical and I don't just randomly add chemicals to my tank.
carol

 

Oh I would never do that. I just saw it in the book and so I know that the peroxide is not toxic to the fish if it does get in the tank.

Rose

 

Oh I would never do that. I just saw it in the book and so I know that the peroxide is not toxic to the fish if it does get in the tank.

Rose

oh I know but you know I'm such a no chemical freak I had to make the chemical speech ;D
Carol

 

hmmm I will have to try that I have had off and on algae problems....

Thank you

Ryan

 

OK,so I just lost a Betta for no apparent reason.I noticed on 6/26 that he was not as excited to be fed as he usually is,but he did eat.The next day,6/27 he had clamped fins in the morning,his color was kinda of grey,and he was just kind of hovering in the middle of the tank.He was dead when I got home from work that evening.This all happened in 24 hours.This sounds like the virus you are all describing,but this was a single male Betta in a 5 gallon tank.I had him for 6 months.I use a python syphon for all of my tanks but that one.The python hose is about 6 inches too short to reach the tank.So I do it with a regular syphon and bucket.Does anyone have any theories on how this fish could have caught what seems to be an epidimic virus,when it was totally isolated from all other fish,and equipment?Does this virus infect other fish,or just Betta and Gourami?Should I be concerned that I have a syphon that has been used in a tank with a Gourami,and a Betta(I have 2 Betta tanks,one I use with the python,the other I don't.)And the same syphon has been used in cichlid,guppy and guppy fry tanks?
I hope this makes sense,what I am trying to ask is should I be concerned that I use the same syphon in a Betta and Gourami tank,as well as in cichlid and guppy tanks,even though the Betta and Gourami,appear healthy?

 

The gourami and bettas are most at risk to this virus, but I believe it infects all fish. You'll have to rip the old tank down and sterilize everything in it if you don't want to risk it getting to future tank inhabitants, and be very careful about what you use in your tanks!

 

I think at best it's 50/50 that the cause of your Betta loss was that virus. It could have been a type of internal parasite or bacterial infection.

I wouldn't be concerned too much about using the python like that. Although, if you want to be safer with it, you could rinse the part that goes in the tank with hot water and dry it thoroughly in between doing tanks. I think there's also a product called net soak that could be used on it, although hot water & drying should do the trick.

 

There do seem to be some fish who never get the disease but can carry it to other fish so I would at the very least give everything a good cleaning and perhaps be very careful about the quarantining of new fish in the future if you have not practiced quarantine in the past. I would not say that you have a case of the virus but even with parasites you would want to do a thorough cleaning. The fish would not have changed color without some intestinal or digestive distress of some type.

Rose

 

I'm so sorry you lost your betta.

 

The gourami and bettas are most at risk to this virus, but I believe it infects all fish. You'll have to rip the old tank down and sterilize everything in it if you don't want to risk it getting to future tank inhabitants, and be very careful about what you use in your tanks!

Not necessarily on the first count.
The way the viruses work is that they utilize certain aspects of a cell membrane to gain access to the cell. If the membrane doesn't have a particular aspect (often, if not always, a protein receptor), it can't access the cell. Then a virus often needs other aspects of a cell in order to infect it (i.e. it can only interact with certain strands of DNA). All fish don't have the same protein receptors, and their DNA setup can be relatively different. The problem is that we don't know which fish can be affected and which can't. Because it seems to affect both bettas and gourami, it is a pretty safe bet that any fish with a labyrinth organ is susceptible. On the other hand, tetras may not be susceptible (but we don't know this).

Anyway, I agree that, if something unknown has killed off the residents of a tank, one should be very careful and either let the tank sit, uninhabited, for several weeks (this will likely kill viruses, as they cannot survive without hosts. It is not guaranteed, however, that it will kill bacteria) or break the tank down and sterilize it with bleach or ammonia. If you use bleach, make sure to overdose the tank with a water/dechlorinator mix, and then empty and rinse well.

 

OK,so I just lost a Betta for no apparent reason.I noticed on 6/26 that he was not as excited to be fed as he usually is,but he did eat.The next day,6/27 he had clamped fins in the morning,his color was kinda of grey,and he was just kind of hovering in the middle of the tank.He was dead when I got home from work that evening.This all happened in 24 hours.This sounds like the virus you are all describing,but this was a single male Betta in a 5 gallon tank.I had him for 6 months.I use a python syphon for all of my tanks but that one.The python hose is about 6 inches too short to reach the tank.So I do it with a regular syphon and bucket.Does anyone have any theories on how this fish could have caught what seems to be an epidimic virus,when it was totally isolated from all other fish,and equipment?Does this virus infect other fish,or just Betta and Gourami?Should I be concerned that I have a syphon that has been used in a tank with a Gourami,and a Betta(I have 2 Betta tanks,one I use with the python,the other I don't.)And the same syphon has been used in cichlid,guppy and guppy fry tanks?
I hope this makes sense,what I am trying to ask is should I be concerned that I use the same syphon in a Betta and Gourami tank,as well as in cichlid and guppy tanks,even though the Betta and Gourami,appear healthy?

It seems that you only have to worry about your labyrinth fish. I have all kinds of species here, yet I lost 4 betta in a few days almost 2 weeks ago. Everyone else was/is fine.
I would clean anything that touched the betta or his tank.
Sorry about your betta boy. :'(

 

Well, reading about this virus I believe that it's hopped species twice, mutating as it goes, but still being over 99% genetically the same virus. Hopefully, this won't affect the Bettas, but who knows at this point. Hopefully, it will also prompt some changes in the Asian aquarium fish industry.

 

I'm so sorry you lost your betta.

Thanks,Me too! That one was actually my 8yr old daughters,she was crushed.

 

I am so sorry and would you pass it along to your daughter that we are so sorry for her. It hurts no matter how old you are but when you are a child it is hard to understand your friend dying and leaving you. So we want to express our sympathies to her.

Rose:console:

 

Thanks also to Allie and to everyone else.I think I am starting to understand this virus a little better.But as someone else mentioned,if I had this fish for 6 months,could this be THE virus?Does it stay,oh I don't know the word,but dormant for months at a time?

I am so sorry and would you pass it along to your daughter that we are so sorry for her. It hurts no matter how old you are but when you are a child it is hard to understand your friend dying and leaving you. So we want to express our sympathies to her.

Rose:console:

Thanks Rose,I will pass it along to her

 

If you have had the fish and only that fish in that tank since you bought it and not transferred any decorations or plants or anything from another tank or that had contact with any other fish into that tank or used a net from another tank or put your hand in the tank after having it in another tank, any contact that could have given that fish contact with any item or any way of having contact with another tank, then probably if none of those things happened your fish did not have THE virus. But can you say for sure that this fish could not have had any contact with any other fish or anything that had come in contact with another fish ever? The virus can live for a while and if you had a net or if something was on a can of food and got transferred just by accident.

When I have a sick fish it gets nothing to eat but Freeze-dried daphnia. That way I am sure it is not getting the same food the rest of the fish get. Also because while they are sick they are more prone to constipation as they have a metabolism change because they are less active. So they get food that cannot constipate them. And every time they are fed the canister gets wiped down with a wipe that is antiseptic so it will not pick up germs. (around the part that my hand touches, not the spout)

But we are by no means all that sure that all the fish that have died recently have died of the virus. I know that there have been a lot of recent deaths but there is something other than the virus out there that much I do know. I know that because Marty is still alive and going strong and if he had the virus he would not have made it. He was very ill and is still not doing the best but he is getting some better. But the fish who had the virus became ill and died in a matter of a very short time and he has lived for a period of several days now even a couple weeks so there is something else that is affecting bettas and making them ill. And I am not too sure that it is limited to even just two things.

Rose

 

to her. I know he had a happy life with her loving him. I hope that in time, she'll want to share her love with another special Betta.

Thanks,Me too! That one was actually my 8yr old daughters,she was crushed.

 

to her. I know he had a happy life with her loving him. I hope that in time, she'll want to share her love with another special Betta.

Thanks A LOT TO ALL!And she is getting over the whole ordeal,and is wanting to know when she can get a new one.The tank needs to be cleaned and sterilized,but I think she will be getting a new one soon.
Thanks to MTS on my part,getting some bacteria from another tank is never a problem!

 

What a great little girl!