Multiple sick fish, need advice

Hi there,

We have a fairly new tank, about 4 months established. I haven't had fish in years, but we were both avid fish keepers once upon a time. I can't stand to see suffering, so I'm spending literal hours of my day researching and purchasing and treating trying to make the best home for these guys.

We've had a couple deaths, a couple illnesses, and now my water has gone haywire. Specifically the pH and Nitrate have jumped since last week.

75 Gal, Fluval smart light on for 11 hours/day, two air stones and one large filter with two waterfall wheels.
Fake and real plants, plenty of hiding places, but LOTS of space to roam.
80 degrees, pH 8.8, Ammonia 0.50ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40ppm

First, we had an Albino Tiger Oscar 3 inches, and a Redtail Catfish 4ish inches. The Oscar seemed sick within a week of getting him. He got insanely depressed, lost all of his color, and laid on the bottom of the tank. He acted like this for 4 months. The catfish seemed fine then suddenly went bellyup during what we discovered was the first Nitrate spike. We got some plants, treated the water and after about a week the nitrate went down to 0, and has remained there until now.

We got the Fluval lights to replace the old cruddy ones, and I picked up a redhead cichlid. The Oscar perked up and they became best buddies. Then after a couple weeks the Oscar went back to his depression. I got some more plants, and more little buddies, and within the next day the Oscar died: lost ALL his color, was gasping for air at the bottom of the tank, and was spinning as if a seal on ball at the bottom of the tank. When he died, he didn't float, but laid on the bottom on his side. It was absolutely heartbreaking. I still don't know what killed him. We've tried everything.

Our current tank has:
Two Redhead cichlids, one about 2 inches, the other 1 inch
3 Bala sharks, about 2.5 inches
1 Electric Blue Cichlid, around 2 inches
1 Koi Angelfish <--he passed away this morning.
I feed them Tetramin Tropical Flakes, and Omega One cichlid pellets --little pinches once or twice a day, everyone likes both.

Everyone gets along, no one bothers each other, everyone seems relatively happy. Until a few days ago. The little redhead is sugar-coated in ich. He acts ok, but he's starting to get sad and lethargic like the Oscar (makes me think the Oscar may have had ich but I couldn't tell because he was white.) He eats, plays, swims, but spends most of his time lounging in a leaf.
-Raised the temp to 82, and added kosher salt to the tank.
-I did 2 C Kosher (yes, I'm positive it was kosher and not iodized) in a gallon of the tank water, mixed and slowly added over 12 hours. ( I didn't even add all of it because it was the angelfish started worrying me. So there is still quite a bit of salt that didn't get added. )
-Added 60 mL Super Ick Cure (API brand) last night

The angelfish started acting like it didn't have enough O2, and was gasping at the surface, this only started yesterday afternoon. I lowered the temp back down to 80. Angel was dead this morning.
--I added 1/2 C of 3% hydrogen peroxide this morning

All of the following is new since this morning:
-Two of my Balas are showing ich, and acting like o2 is an issue.
-Little redhead has way less spots on him today, but still lethargic. He's hanging out against the heater and filter.
-One bala is acting really strange, has separated himself from the other two, and just not moving very much in a corner of the tank.
-Electric blue acts totally fine.
-Big redhead is hiding from me in his treasure chest but seems fine.

I fed them a tiny pinch this morning just to get everyone out in the open so I could check everyone out.

All of the weird water changes are new this week--last week we had a perfect tank.

Please help. I can't take much more death.

Attached are:
Photo of the lethargic bala
Photo of the other two balas who dart back and forth so quickly I can't take a photo
Photo of small redhead, who is hidng, but has less ich today

 

I have no clue what has happened, did you do a water change shortly before the problem started? Maybe there are some abnormal amount of toxins like heavy mental present in your water if you are using tap water.

Adding medications do lower the oxygen in the water so maybe you should try doing 50%wc daily instead to clear out the water of meds and ammonia for now and add double dose of water conditioner (like Prime) in you replacement water in case the calamities are problem.

I hope this is any help or if someone has even better suggestions.

Also I have never treated my whole tank with salt or medications but instead tried salt baths for tolerant fish. As this is already affecting your whole tank I dont think a separate hospital will help so much but strongly recommed to have a hospital tank setup to medicate and quarantine sick looking fish.

 

Nopsu, thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

We haven't done a water change in a few weeks. I've been trying to get everyone settled, happy, and healthy before doing one. Now that I've treated with ick medication, I have to leave it for another 24 hours, then do a partial change, then another treatment, then another change after an additional 48 hours.

Like you said, I treated the whole tank since everyone is affected. I worry that the Angelfish just couldn't take the raise in temperature?

 

Weekly water change is very healthy and keeps the toxins low. Especially if there are fish in the tank and no abundance in live plants. I believe that poop build up might be a possible cause then. Good filtration and regular wc keeps water clean and fish happy.

After stopping medications keep doing regular wc and try to clear up any left over meds with carbon filter. (personally would remove the carbon after a while)

I hope your fish get better

 

Thanks so much, we definitely plan to get back on a schedule.

 

Water changes weekly, but at this point do an immediate 50% water change and test water daily until your numbers come down, while also doing water changes. The Prime will neutralize the ammonia for 24-48 hours and Tetra SafeStart couldn't hurt. You have ammonia with high ph and that's not good. Is the ph always that high? Is it from tap water?
Your fish are struggling for air and ich is present. There is certainly something going on with the water. I'd make sure you have adequate agitation from your filters as well as adequate filtration and add an air stone. Increased temperature means less oxygen and you'll need to raise the temperature to about 86 degrees for a couple of weeks to battle the ich.
I'm sure you'll be asked by other members to fill out an emergency template as this provides even more background. It's possible your beneficial bacteria cannot handle the current bioload or your cycle wasn't quite complete. Would be helpful to know your filtration. And maybe reconsider your stocking later, but right now we just want to save your fish.
Good luck.

 

Thank you.

The pH is never that high, always right around 6ish-7. I;ve got two big bubble stones, and a Marineland Penguin Power Filter model 350.

I've just gotten home and am about to do the 50% WC. I have water conditioner for the tap water and AmQuel ammonia detox conditioner.

The balas are more frantic than earlier, and the one little bala is far more lethargic than earlier--I fear the worst for him.

I will update as soon as I can. Thank you so much for all the help.

Water changes weekly, but at this point do an immediate 50% water change and test water daily until your numbers come down, while also doing water changes. The Prime will neutralize the ammonia for 24-48 hours and Tetra SafeStart couldn't hurt. You have ammonia with high ph and that's not good. Is the ph always that high? Is it from tap water?
Your fish are struggling for air and ich is present. There is certainly something going on with the water. I'd make sure you have adequate agitation from your filters as well as adequate filtration and add an air stone. Increased temperature means less oxygen and you'll need to raise the temperature to about 86 degrees for a couple of weeks to battle the ich.
I'm sure you'll be asked by other members to fill out an emergency template as this provides even more background. It's possible your beneficial bacteria cannot handle the current bioload or your cycle wasn't quite complete. Would be helpful to know your filtration. And maybe reconsider your stocking later, but right now we just want to save your fish.
Good luck.

Alright, I finished the water change about an hour ago. Did a full 50%. All the water is testing well now, pH around 6, ammonia around 0.25ppm, and the Nitrate and Nitrites aren't registering.

The one bala still hangs out in the corner at the top of the tank, hardly moving. The other two are somewhat frantic, but favoring the top of the tank. The little redhead has far less ich on him. And everyone else has been hiding. I am gravely concerned about the balas at this point.

I've attachedan image of the tank to show our aeration, I'm still in disbelief that there isn't enough oxygen in the water.
The little redhead seems to be healing.

 

Thank you.

The pH is never that high, always right around 6ish-7. I;ve got two big bubble stones, and a Marineland Penguin Power Filter model 350.

I've just gotten home and am about to do the 50% WC. I have water conditioner for the tap water and AmQuel ammonia detox conditioner.

The balas are more frantic than earlier, and the one little bala is far more lethargic than earlier--I fear the worst for him.

I will update as soon as I can. Thank you so much for all the help.



Alright, I finished the water change about an hour ago. Did a full 50%. All the water is testing well now, pH around 6, ammonia around 0.25ppm, and the Nitrate and Nitrites aren't registering.

The one bala still hangs out in the corner at the top of the tank, hardly moving. The other two are somewhat frantic, but favoring the top of the tank. The little redhead has far less ich on him. And everyone else has been hiding. I am gravely concerned about the balas at this point.

I've attachedan image of the tank to show our aeration, I'm still in disbelief that there isn't enough oxygen in the water.
The little redhead seems to be healing.

With a tank this size and big fish I'd suggest getting a second filter after everything settles, Marineland Penguin Power Filter model 350 states is for 50-75G but many times its barely scratching it.
I know many have suggested on getting a filter that's made for almost twice the size of your tank. Maybe another one of those same ones to make sure your bio load is accounted for

For now just keep doing those WC once a day or so to keep the parameters more stable. Ammonia spikes and jumping pH sure could have caused your fish to stress and get sick

 

Thanks again.

Everything is stable this morning. One bala not feeling good, more ich present on him and the other two balas. The blue cichlid has a tiny spot on his tail that doesn't look like ich...but...like a piece of food is stuck to it, it's been there for a day. That's the only imperfection that I can see on him. Big red cichlid is still fine and thriving, little red has less ich visible.

I only just realize this morning, that in my fervor to get the water stable, I hadn't removed the carbon filters from the actual filter itself. I had removed the extra bag of carbon that we have....but for whatever reason, never considered the filters themselves during the Ick treatment.

I have re-dosed with Super Ick, and removed the carbon filters. I'm slowly creeping the water temperature up.

I have a second Marineland filter coming today and will install it for more water flow. I haven't had luck finding filters that do not contain carbon. Do I need to have the filters installed while I do the Ick treatment? Is there a substitute?

The size of all my fish are currently under 3 inches. Do I need to be concerned with my stock choices right now? We planned to add a second tank, or upgrade, once these guys grew considerably.

How long can I continue the Super Ick treatment back to back?

 

I have a second Marineland filter coming today and will install it for more water flow. I haven't had luck finding filters that do not contain carbon. Do I need to have the filters installed while I do the Ick treatment? Is there a substitute?

I think this filter has a cartridge of some sorts that has carbon inside? If so you can open it with a knife and just pour out the carbon stuff inside.

Other great thing you can do is replace the cartridges with any filter sponges (doesn't matter so much what size or how coarse you can mix and match), just cut them into size that fits your filter and you are good. For starter only do it on the new filter and later on your old filter when the new one is properly seeded with bacteria. You don't need to replace these sponges like ever! just rinse them in tank water any time you do maintenance and you are good.

For carbon in general; I would only use it to remove medication and that's it.

How long can I continue the Super Ick treatment back to back?

I don't know anything about this treatment so can't comment. Maybe someone else can help or you can find something online...

 

Thanks again.

Everything is stable this morning. One bala not feeling good, more ich present on him and the other two balas. The blue cichlid has a tiny spot on his tail that doesn't look like ich...but...like a piece of food is stuck to it, it's been there for a day. That's the only imperfection that I can see on him. Big red cichlid is still fine and thriving, little red has less ich visible.

I only just realize this morning, that in my fervor to get the water stable, I hadn't removed the carbon filters from the actual filter itself. I had removed the extra bag of carbon that we have....but for whatever reason, never considered the filters themselves during the Ick treatment.

I have re-dosed with Super Ick, and removed the carbon filters. I'm slowly creeping the water temperature up.

I have a second Marineland filter coming today and will install it for more water flow. I haven't had luck finding filters that do not contain carbon. Do I need to have the filters installed while I do the Ick treatment? Is there a substitute?

The size of all my fish are currently under 3 inches. Do I need to be concerned with my stock choices right now? We planned to add a second tank, or upgrade, once these guys grew considerably.

How long can I continue the Super Ick treatment back to back?

Hi,

They are lacking air because of the ick goes into their gill thus their cannot breathe properly. The carbon media removes the mg on super ick cure so thats the reason did not worked out. I was wondering the reason why the first fish die? if die out of the blue could be columnaris, sometimes just kill without any symptom. The fish with the small white dot could be relate it to columaris instead of ick. Columnaris also attacks the gills. Are they swimining erractic? like swing bladder?

 

Nopsu, Thanks for the input on the filter. I was able to cut them open and pour out the carbon. I got a second filter and installed it for extra o2 flow as well. Now have two bubble stones, one Marineland Penguin 350 and a Marineland Penguin 200.

Pachonfx, I do not see any symptoms like swim bladder. After removing the carbon filters, I retreated the whole tank with Jungle Ick Clear Fizz tablets last night. All three balas were covered in white spots and acting poorly, lingering in the same corner with minimal movement and no eating. One of them died this afternoon, I'm not sure if it was the one who was looking the worst or not. When I pulled his body out of the water, I couldn't see any white spots. As well, he was dead on the bottom of the tank, not floating. I do wonder if the Columnaris is the cause of the death of the little angel fish, that was extremely sudden and the only symptom was gasping at the top, there were no ick spots and it floated after dying.

When I found the bala dead, I checked the water and the pH had spiked to above 8.8 again. I am getting a bad feeling from the ick treatments, that the chemicals are sending the fish to their grave.

I did a 40% water change, and everything is reading level again except nitrate is around 5.5ppm. I've replaced all the carbon filters and the nitrate filter bag. The water still looks like cloudy and green, I'm hoping that adding the carbon filters back in will help. I'll do another water change tomorrow based on the readings.

The other fish look fine and I see no signs of ick in them, currently. The two remaining balas are acting badly.

Temp is around 84, I'll maintain that for at least a week or until the ick is gone.

Any other input or advice is appreciated. These poor little fish are just dying off every couple days and I don't know how to save them.

Water changes weekly, but at this point do an immediate 50% water change and test water daily until your numbers come down, while also doing water changes. The Prime will neutralize the ammonia for 24-48 hours and Tetra SafeStart couldn't hurt. You have ammonia with high ph and that's not good. Is the ph always that high? Is it from tap water?
Your fish are struggling for air and ich is present. There is certainly something going on with the water. I'd make sure you have adequate agitation from your filters as well as adequate filtration and add an air stone. Increased temperature means less oxygen and you'll need to raise the temperature to about 86 degrees for a couple of weeks to battle the ich.
I'm sure you'll be asked by other members to fill out an emergency template as this provides even more background. It's possible your beneficial bacteria cannot handle the current bioload or your cycle wasn't quite complete. Would be helpful to know your filtration. And maybe reconsider your stocking later, but right now we just want to save your fish.
Good luck.

I’ve lost one of the balas, the other two aren’t far behind. I did the emergency WC and got parameters back down. More ick treatments (forgot to remove carbon,) and Gradually raised temp. Last ich treatment was last night, removed all carbon, but lost the bala this afternoon.

40% water change about an hour ago, pH is back down to 6.0, nitrite 0, ammoni 0, nitrate still a smidge higher than 0. Temp is at 86.

just now, the large cichlids started acting funny, leaning sideways, andvisited the very top of the tank which he never does. This is brand new and he’s seemed unaffected until now. Also now bullying the little one.He shows no signs of ich.
Any clue? I’m scared everyone will be dead by the morning.

 

Nopsu, Thanks for the input on the filter. I was able to cut them open and pour out the carbon. I got a second filter and installed it for extra o2 flow as well. Now have two bubble stones, one Marineland Penguin 350 and a Marineland Penguin 200.

Pachonfx, I do not see any symptoms like swim bladder. After removing the carbon filters, I retreated the whole tank with Jungle Ick Clear Fizz tablets last night. All three balas were covered in white spots and acting poorly, lingering in the same corner with minimal movement and no eating. One of them died this afternoon, I'm not sure if it was the one who was looking the worst or not. When I pulled his body out of the water, I couldn't see any white spots. As well, he was dead on the bottom of the tank, not floating. I do wonder if the Columnaris is the cause of the death of the little angel fish, that was extremely sudden and the only symptom was gasping at the top, there were no ick spots and it floated after dying.

When I found the bala dead, I checked the water and the pH had spiked to above 8.8 again. I am getting a bad feeling from the ick treatments, that the chemicals are sending the fish to their grave.

I did a 40% water change, and everything is reading level again except nitrate is around 5.5ppm. I've replaced all the carbon filters and the nitrate filter bag. The water still looks like cloudy and green, I'm hoping that adding the carbon filters back in will help. I'll do another water change tomorrow based on the readings.

The other fish look fine and I see no signs of ick in them, currently. The two remaining balas are acting badly.

Temp is around 84, I'll maintain that for at least a week or until the ick is gone.

Any other input or advice is appreciated. These poor little fish are just dying off every couple days and I don't know how to save them.


I’ve lost one of the balas, the other two aren’t far behind. I did the emergency WC and got parameters back down. More ick treatments (forgot to remove carbon,) and Gradually raised temp. Last ich treatment was last night, removed all carbon, but lost the bala this afternoon.

40% water change about an hour ago, pH is back down to 6.0, nitrite 0, ammoni 0, nitrate still a smidge higher than 0. Temp is at 86.

just now, the large cichlids started acting funny, leaning sideways, andvisited the very top of the tank which he never does. This is brand new and he’s seemed unaffected until now. Also now bullying the little one.He shows no signs of ich.
Any clue? I’m scared everyone will be dead by the morning.

I would do a methylene blue dips, that helps with fungus, ich and gill issues. Its not harsh to the fish and do wonders sometimes. If after dealing the ick you see another sudden death. I would treat the tank with furan2 and kanaplex to combat columnaris just in case. I have cured ick in a day with mb dips

 

I would do a methylene blue dips, that helps with fungus, ich and gill issues. Its not harsh to the fish and do wonders sometimes. If after dealing the ick you see another sudden death. I would treat the tank with furan2 and kanaplex to combat columnaris just in case. I have cured ick in a day with mb dips

Thank you so much.

The third bala did finally succumb to the ich. The other three cichlids seem to be good. There is still a strange spot-like a scab-on the very outer edge of the tail of the electric blue cichlid. The spot seems to be growing. He might also have a small smudge on his nose, which I'll keep an eye on. It could also be that they're getting larger and I'm simply noticing more about them.