Question Multiple Deaths In An Established Community Tank Some Showing Signs Of Fin Rot

Aquaridiot

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Some seemingly asymptomatic. 60 gallon tank overstocked but param's nitrite=0,ammonia=0, nitrate= 20, ph=7.6 temp=79 degrees. water changes 75-80% every 10 days to 2 weeks. suddenly the guppies had fin rot, a couple died, rest moved to 10 gal hospital tank, now 2 mollies, 2 rainbows, and a silver dollar in hospital tank with fins that appear tattered. yesterday, my oldest rainbow suddenly had a large area covered in white puffy stuff. I mean it came out of nowhere, overnight. Then w/in 12 hrs he died. Now, I have a cory in the main tank with a pea-sized circle of white puff. Behavior is normal otherwise. I'll try to show pics of any physical symptoms. The most alarming is the bosemanI rainbow. I treated hospital w/aquarium salt, fungus cure and kanamycin night before last. Can I put the cory in there? Any advice or opinions about what is going on here I'd appreciate greatly. And how to fix it. PS, the main tank is heavily planted and has 2 HOB filters[/ATTACH]
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86 ssinit

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I’m guessing all of these fish came from the same tank. Boismania is already in a qt tank being treated for fungus? If they all came from the same tank it’s in the tank. Just from the pics I’m seeing bloat/dropsy fungus and fin rot. Something had to change. Or there a dead fish hidden in there rotting. That tank is going to need to be treated. 80% water change. What new in the tank.
 

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Dang, sorry for your losses. To me, it looks like columnaris, a bacterial infection that resembles a fungus but moves extremely quickly. You'll need Furan and/or Macaryn to treat it.
Edit: Just saw you have kanamycin!! That can work in a pinch, dose the whole tank that the angel came from. Columnaris is extremely contagious, and since you seem to have a fast moving warm strain (will kill in 12-36 hours, most fish will not show symptoms) time is of the essence.
 

86 ssinit

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I had no idea columnaris caused so many different ailments. Is it in the water column? If so would a uv light kill it?
Rtessy said:
Dang, sorry for your losses. To me, it looks like columnaris, a bacterial infection that resembles a fungus but moves extremely quickly. You'll need Furan and/or Macaryn to treat it.
 

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86 ssinit said:
I had no idea columnaris caused so many different ailments. Is it in the water column? If so would a uv light kill it?
It's one of the worst things out there. UV won't do anything for it, it's bacterial and once it has a host, it'll kill just about anything. There's nothing else I know of that will kill fish in 12 hours.
 
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Aquaridiot

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I was thinking columnaris also bc i've read it can cause fin rot. Should I put the fish that are in the hospital tank back in the big tank and then dose the big tank with kanamycin? I've also ordered furan 2 bc I read somewhere kanamycin + furan 2 is best to cover columnaris. Also, are these treatments OK for cories and clown loaches? I don't have any invertebrates.
 

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iIHaveFishQuestions said:
I was thinking columnaris also bc i've read it can cause fin rot. Should I put the fish that are in the hospital tank back in the big tank and then dose the big tank with kanamycin? I've also ordered furan 2 bc I read somewhere kanamycin + furan 2 is best to cover columnaris. Also, are these treatments OK for cories and clown loaches? I don't have any invertebrates.
Kanaplex + Furan 2 is a great combo for this. You can treat them separately if you want, but I would start kanaplex now if possible. If the ones worse off die, it could prevent an ammonia spike if you have them separated. Sorry again, columnaris is one of the worst ones.
 

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Wow, it looked like the BosemanI had a terrible case of Saprolegnia. You can see the tips of the little strands in the picture.

When was the last time you added fish to the tank?
 
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Aquaridiot

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Ravynn said:
Wow, it looked like the BosemanI had a terrible case of Saprolegnia. You can see the tips of the little strands in the picture.

When was the last time you added fish to the tank?
I honestly don't know. It has been at least over a month since I added any. But yeah, my poor bosemanI grew that mohawk overnight, and died 12 hrs later. **** is Saprolegnia. yesterday It popped up on one of my cories, one round spot and 6 to 8 hrs later I looked at him and he had 2 more smaller spots of it down his back and was dead.
This is giving me a nervous breakdown
 

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iIHaveFishQuestions said:
I honestly don't know. It has been at least over a month since I added any. But yeah, my poor bosemanI grew that mohawk overnight, and died 12 hrs later. **** is Saprolegnia. yesterday It popped up on one of my cories, one round spot and 6 to 8 hrs later I looked at him and he had 2 more smaller spots of it down his back and was dead.
This is giving me a nervous breakdown
It doesn't look like saprolegina to me, I'd say columnaris is more likely. Saprolegnia is a type of fungus often present in aquariums and it can infection fish, but it can generally only set in on dead tissue and won't kill this fast.
Do you have any medications on hand? If not, order kanaplex and Furan 2 asap, columnaris kills incredibly quickly, as you can tell, so treating quickly is necessary.
 

86 ssinit

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Ok I understand that once it get a host it spreads quickly. But it’s got to be moving from host to host through the water. A uv steralizer will kill whatever is in the water. I suggest the green killing machine. Again it’s used for algae but kills anything in the water. They are a must in salt water and ponds.
 

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Turn your temperature down to 72-74 .Columnaris loves clean warm water .
You look to have a strain between strain 1 [dead in 24 hours ] and strain 2 [you get longer to watch fish die ].
Do the full treatment with both kanna and furan and then see..Proper columnaris procedure says cull all fish showing symptoms .
I have ever only felt confident using many different treatments in killing /curing columnaris using potassium permanganate in strong doses and euthanizing every fish that shows a single symptom of bad health..Any med is going to have its hands full killing the bacteria in the tank [or even getting it under control] more or less saving a basically non savable fish .
All meds and treatments /conditioners work under the premise of X amount needed for X amount you have .
Most fail at curing columnaris by mis guessing how much bacteria is really in the tank .If the med is to kill the bacteria then surely it should kill a severely effected fish ?
I look at it like dropsy[another symptom of bacterial imbalance] in that when you finally recognize it the fish is usually to far gone . Just trying to get the tank back in balance should really be the goal.. Unfortunately for you now any sick effected fish in your tank is food for the bacteria to try to survive on …
I will say the potassium permanganate while few understand it worked best for me .I cured finally swordtails I was breeding [5-6 years ago] and never saw any sign of columnaris again in those fish for 8 months before I euthanized them all.They were from day 1 of infection to me un sellable so I was more trying to learn about this issue that devastates so many then cure a fish ,but I did cure the fish . PP is like chlorine so to speak and is an indiscriminate killer of bacteria [good or bad] that you dose enough of to kill all but the largest form of life in tank [the fish]. Doing so can be dangerous and proper knowledge of the product and its use is needed to avoid catastrophe..
On the UV note ,it does not even effectively kill ich in an infected tank ? The flow and power of bulb needed to treat every ml of tank water before the bacteria can reproduce is not one many common units can even come close to providing...I have several uv from the green machine to Aqau 'classic 25' and although no harm will come from using one and they even help they will not kill the entire colony of infecting bacteria unless the fish goes through it ? That is where the bacteria lives the strongest ..
 

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coralbandit said:
I will say the potassium permanganate while few understand it worked best for me.
Would love to know how you used potassium permanganate to get rid of columnaris.
 

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Ravynn said:
Would love to know how you used potassium permanganate to get rid of columnaris.
Mix 75 grams of PP in 1 liter of water [this stuff is poison that will stain everything it can so pretend you are climbing under your car].
That will give you a solution that yields 1ppm per gallon of tank water per DROP added.
2ppm is recommended dose strength and over 4ppm can kill quick[fish]. So 2 drops per gallon .
H2O2 is always needed to be right on hand to neutralize it if something goes wrong. Like chlorine [again] it is easily neutralized with 1ml of H2O2 per gallon.
Remove bio media from filter and do a 50% water change to give the PP its best chance to get what is left . Remember I said X treats X ? Water changes should always be done before any med.
After the dose is installed the tank should turn purple. It should remain purple for 4 hours .If it turns yellow/brown before 4 hrs. then it is spent .This also indicates a HIGH organic load that no nitrate test will ever reveal. Re dosing can done 1 more time same day or attempted again next day.
If tank stays purple for 4 hours I then do a 50-75 % water change add the ml of H2O2 for the gallons of tank water total and refill tank with clean new water . I add the H2O2 after I have removed as much of the PP so it too can work its best .
The reason meds are re dosed is usually because their effects are null in less then 24 hours. The clearest example of this would be any dye based med like MB or MG.
Tanks go clear without any effort from keeper ..The product is gone .
Unfortunately many of the meds we use are not colored so conveniently to indicate if they are still in force .
 

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I think this is the problem with guppies in big tanks. One dies and you can't find it, it rots, and the others all come down sick....
By the time you figure out what's going on, its usually too late.

I would not be very optimistic about treating the fish, honestly they should be moved to a separate hospital tank and treated with a Strong antibiotic
Try to save your tank.....don't pollute it with poision to "kill" bacteria. You can't kill columnaris, you can't kill bacteria in a fish tank.

Take the stuff out, rinse it off under warm tap or soak it in a mild bleach, vacuum the substrate, do several large water changes...…..
In the future, make sure you can keep track of your fish! Plants are great, but if you are using guppies, try to only use big healthy guppies and keep track of them.
 
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Aquaridiot

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Yeah, I am so over guppies lol. I have the kanamycin and furan2, I just vacuumed the gravel good and i'm gonna do 75% wc. I have been obsessively looking for signs/symptoms of illness and *knock on wood* I haven't seen anything in the main tank or hospital tank. (Except their little jagged fins that got them put into the hospital tank in the first place) This is so stressful and honestly, I think once that white **** shows up, it is too late. I think the tank was overstocked and they were growing bigger so they were more stressed than I realized. IDK, I have been SLOOOOOOOwLY decreasing temps, I am at 78 now.
 

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I like the look of several schools of different types of Tetras in a planted display tank. Guppies are definitely fragile and unusual fish.
 
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Aquaridiot

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Whitewolf said:
I like the look of several schools of different types of Tetras in a planted display tank. Guppies are definitely fragile and unusual fish.
The crazy thing is.... the guppies were the first ones to go in the hospital tank, The ones that died all did within 48 hrs and I have 4 left in there and they have done a total 180 since this started... They are eating and swimming around as if they've never felt better...I just finished changing both the tank water 80%. I put in stressguard and paraguard. I'm hesitant to put the meds in, but I guess it s better safe than sorry. I do NOT wanna lose another rainbowfish, or any silver dollars. Those are my favorite
 

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It definitely looks like columnaris to me. The only thing worse than columnaris is Tetrahymena.
 
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Aquaridiot

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I am supposed to put the 3rd dose of Furan 2 in with the second dose of kanaplex and I won't have more furan 2 until tomorrow. no LFS in a 30 mile radius (at least) carry it. What do I do? Would it hurt to just hold off until tomorrow? I have more kanaplex coming tomorrow too. I don't think I have enough of that either. Do I still do the 25% wc? I have paraguard and polyguard on hand. I ran out of the combo quicker than I expected bc I wasn't accounting for the second tank. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 

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