Movin' on up to the 29 gallon

Chapter One:

In my last post, I was deciding whether to re-scape my 20H, upgrade to a 29, or find a new hobby. My plants were sad and my stock slowly died off over a couple of years.

All of you talked me into the 29, so here we go...I SO WELCOME suggestions, advice and thoughts as we move through this build.

I have a concept in mind with a red-brown theme, using driftwood, pebbles, and plants. Not sure exactly what plants (save for one very healthy Anubias in an Aquarium Co-op Easy Planter) or what stock we'll have just yet, concentrating on the build first. But one thing I am sure of: I am NOT going to hurry through this - having learned from past errors!

Over the last two weeks, I've acquired the tank and am slowly buying some of what I need for the build. Here is chapter 1, the tank is set up with one bag of red Fluorite, another bag is coming today. (Wow, that Fluorite takes a LOT of rinsing as so many have said.)

Question: I was going to use the Fluorite as the sole substrate, with some mounds of pebbles around the tank, or possibly a layer of polished pebbles (I have 18 lb of fish-safe pure polished pebbles on hand.) Should I instead add a layer of sand over the Fluorite? My hesitation with sand is that it seems hard to clean; getting sucked up in the vac.

More to come, of course! Thanks for your ideas and advice along the way.

 

Chapter One:

In my last post, I was deciding whether to re-scape my 20H, upgrade to a 29, or find a new hobby. My plants were sad and my stock slowly died off over a couple of years.

All of you talked me into the 29, so here we go...I SO WELCOME suggestions, advice and thoughts as we move through this build.

I have a concept in mind with a red-brown theme, using driftwood, pebbles, and plants. Not sure exactly what plants (save for one very healthy Anubias in an Aquarium Co-op Easy Planter) or what stock we'll have just yet, concentrating on the build first. But one thing I am sure of: I am NOT going to hurry through this - having learned from past errors!

Over the last two weeks, I've acquired the tank and am slowly buying some of what I need for the build. Here is chapter 1, the tank is set up with one bag of red Fluorite, another bag is coming today. (Wow, that Fluorite takes a LOT of rinsing as so many have said.)

Question: I was going to use the Fluorite as the sole substrate, with some mounds of pebbles around the tank, or possibly a layer of polished pebbles (I have 18 lb of fish-safe pure polished pebbles on hand.) Should I instead add a layer of sand over the Fluorite? My hesitation with sand is that it seems hard to clean; getting sucked up in the vac.

More to come, of course! Thanks for your ideas and advice along the way.

You could add sand if you want, though I know you can also leave it. It's honestly up to you, though I find a sand layer helps hold plants in better than more gravel-like substrates. If you plan on getting cory catfish, I would add a sand layer on top because they do better with sand or very small gravel over anything sharper.

I find sand is actually really easy to clean! Don't vac by putting the vac into the layer like with gravel. You just hover it over the top so it gets anything that's collected there without picking up the sand. You can stir the sand first with a wood skewer too, before vacuuming the top just to kick up any debris that sank a little into it.

 

The build continues, now soaking the driftwood to minimize tannin leaching.

I may forego the sand over the Fluval substrate and just avoid Corys (as much as I do love them). Will plants do ok in Fluval only, and what kind of bottom dweller will be good as a Cory alternative?

 

The build continues, now soaking the driftwood to minimize tannin leaching.

I may forego the sand over the Fluval substrate and just avoid Corys (as much as I do love them). Will plants do ok in Fluval only, and what kind of bottom dweller will be good as a Cory alternative?

Most bottom-dwelling fish have softer underbellies so I wouldn't recommend any with just the Flourite substrate because it is sharper pieces. People will argue that they have put cory and loaches and they're fine but I wouldn't. Only helpful cleanup crew you could do would be shrimp, snails, and oto (for algae on glass and decor) but with shrimp you would need to be careful what fish you stock as some might eat them.

 

So why does anyone use substrate like Fluval? I may just take it out and call it the cost of learning....

 

So why does anyone use substrate like Fluval? I may just take it out and call it the cost of learning....

It's a good bottom layer of substrate when you're doing multiple layers of substrate but you can get the same sort of thing by using regular gravel for much cheaper. Flourite isn't often used on its own from what I've seen. You could still use it, just cap it with small rounded gravel or sand and you can do bottom dwellers. They just can't do sharper substrate.

So I have cory and have used sand, aqua soil, and very small gravel. Aqua soil is pricey but you can get playsand or pool filter sand for cheap at hardware stores and the same with gravel. The gravel I got was from Chewy and is closer to sand than gravel (CaribSea Super Naturals Jungle River Aquarium Gravel). Most bottom dwellers like sand and soft/rounded stuff they can shift through so if you want bottom dwellers I'd do sand or almost-sand gravel which is cheaper, though aqua soil is an option as well.

 

Bored 411, thanks so much for being kind enough not to point out my error calling it Fluval instead of Fluorite. Does anyone else find these names confusing, or am I just getting further into the "age group"?

I've decided to use PFS over about a 1" layer of the Fluorite Red, meaning I'll only need to take a bit of the Fluorite out. The driftwood is still soaking and will be for a while longer, I'm sure, so there's plenty of time to rejigger the plan. Hoping this will be a great compromise for plants and corys.

I'm also thinking now of creating a little "riverbed" of the polished pebbles I have, flowing between my driftwood pieces. Will see how that looks once I get the PFS in and the cleaned-up driftwood in place.

 

My 75 has pure river pebbles, no Flourite, and the cory's are happy. It took about a year to build up enough nutrients at the bottom of the tank for the stem plants to finally take off.

My wife's 55 has Flourite topped with river pebbles and her cory's are very, very happy - had a couple batches of babies already. Her stem plants were almost immediate growers. It becomes a jungle if she doesn't trim the plants.

 

Thank you for the information, briangcc, it's always good to hear the experiences of others.

I have 18 lb of polished river pebbles sitting on my table; was going to use them solely as aquascaping but maybe they can be a standalone layer over the Fluorite, instead of sand? Just thinking...

I know that corys like sifting the sand, which is something they wouldn't be able to do with pebbles... so thinking even more!

 

My gravel is probably pea sized at the largest. They can move it around. I have pandas, sterbai, bandit, and another that the lfs listed as columbian but I'm not quite sure they had them labelled correctly. But anywho...they're all doing well.

They definitely DON'T like the colored gravel (the green/black/blue/etc) stuff you get from the chain pet stores. That stuff is sharp as daggers - learned that the hard way in my oldest's 29.

 

I’ve had panda corydoras on old eco complete for a decade (which is like crushed up clay). The oldest one is about 9 years old. All of them have long barbels and are big and happy. They spawn a few times a year and the fry raise up in the tank on their own. It’s not so much about how “sharp” the substrate is compared to how clean you’re keeping the tank. The spaces and gaps between “larger” substrates is a good place for food to get stuck and rot. With that said, I vacuum like once every couple of years lol (it’s pretty densely planted).

If you’re still planning on different types of substrate, expect them to mix together over time. All of the finer grains will eventually go to the bottom and larger stuff on top.

 

We'll agree to disagree on the substrate.

From experience, the green colored stuff from the big box chain stores is in my 29 and I fished many dead cory's out from there. Water parameters are fine. They live quite happily in my 75 and the wife's 55 with river pebble substrate.

Interestingly enough....in that same 29 under a previous setup using river pebble, I had 2 corys with no issues.Kept them for over 12 years...passed due to old age in my 75.

 

I use crystal river in my 29 which is an inert substrate - and i find my plants sort of grow; i guess they could do better but they could also do worse.

 

I'm going to use the Fluorite Red (FR) with a layer of PFS. Can any of you guide me as to suggested depth? I've taken the FR down to 1/2", and am thinking 2 to 2 1/2" of PFS, which I'll probably buy tomorrow, then spend some time thoroughly rinsing of course. I believe that strategy should keep the sand from completely mixing and having the FR stick up through it (I hope).

Is 1/2" of FR enough to give my plants a boost?

I use crystal river in my 29 which is an inert substrate - and i find my plants sort of grow; i guess they could do better but they could also do worse.
View attachment 864610

Linda, those plants look beautiful!

 

I'm going to use the Fluorite Red (FR) with a layer of PFS. Can any of you guide me as to suggested depth? I've taken the FR down to 1/2", and am thinking 2 to 2 1/2" of PFS, which I'll probably buy tomorrow, then spend some time thoroughly rinsing of course. I believe that strategy should keep the sand from completely mixing and having the FR stick up through it (I hope).

Is 1/2" of FR enough to give my plants a boost?

So the depth sounds fine. You could probably even go 2" of PFS and be safe. I do about 1- 1 1/2" and that keeps most of my stuff in. The FR shouldn't come up through it, but with cory, deeper is a bit better. If you're still worried though, look into some all-plastic mesh bags (filter media bags here's a 10pack I get from amazon) and you can bag it up instead and then cap it. I do that with my aqua soil later and it works great while still allowing roots in.

If you could, I would crush up some root tabs and sprinkle that on top of the FR. You can break them up or crush them (I've done both) and that should give you plenty of boost. You might need to add more root tabs later (depending on what tabs you get you should replace every 1-3 months) but I tend to do it by eye. If I see the plants are yellowing more and struggling, I add a root tab.

 

Another step completed; the PFS went in today. Lots of rinsing, but the job is done. Yay! Who knew that a wooden kitchen spatula would make such a great smoothing tool? We now have a layer of PFS sloping from 1.5" in front to 2.5" in back, over a layer of about 1/2" of Fluorite Red.

Also scrubbed the driftwood today, it's on its final soak and the water is nearly clear (finally!!). That may go in over the weekend, along with some large polished pebbles I have - not sure what I'll do with those just yet. I thought about a "river" of the pebbles winding around the driftwood, so we'll see if that looks good or goofy. Ideas are welcomed.

Any thoughts on plants - easy to grow? I have a healthy Anubias in an Aquarium Co-op easy planter (see pic), so that is one. I'd like a little color if possible. I haven't had good luck with Amazon Swords or Java Ferns but willing to try again.

 

Another step completed; the PFS went in today. Lots of rinsing, but the job is done. Yay! Who knew that a wooden kitchen spatula would make such a great smoothing tool? We now have a layer of PFS sloping from 1.5" in front to 2.5" in back, over a layer of about 1/2" of Fluorite Red.

Also scrubbed the driftwood today, it's on its final soak and the water is nearly clear (finally!!). That may go in over the weekend, along with some large polished pebbles I have - not sure what I'll do with those just yet. I thought about a "river" of the pebbles winding around the driftwood, so we'll see if that looks good or goofy. Ideas are welcomed.

Any thoughts on plants - easy to grow? I have a healthy Anubias in an Aquarium Co-op easy planter (see pic), so that is one. I'd like a little color if possible. I haven't had good luck with Amazon Swords or Java Ferns but willing to try again.

Crypts have always been good for me and you can get red crypts. Ludwigia comes in a few colors if you want a stem plant. Java ferns are good but like anubias they are things that should to be attached to something with thread/fishing line/super glue, which is how they work best. Swords are good too but they're big root feeders and need root tabs. Anubias are easy, hornwort is good floating plant as are dwarf water lettuce and salvinia. Different mosses can do well too. I tend to superglue them to driftwood before I fill up a tank or you can tie it down. I find java moss grows outward, phoenix and Christmas moss grow more bushy. If you keep up with trimming they can cover a piece of wood and look really nice.

Best thing is to try a few plants and see what work well in your tank and go from there. My tanks struggle with stem plants but grow crypts and java ferns super well. With scaping a tank I just try a few formations and see what I like. I'm sure you'll come up with something good and I can't wait to see it You're already making great progress and I'm super excited to see how it turns out!

 

jungle val, italia val, most aponogetons, java fern, hornworth, frogbit, red roots floaters, .... (floating plants like frogbit, red roots floaters and water lettuce will not do well if there is strong surface current). A picture of my 3 year old 29 is posted above. I do recommend avoiding aponogeton ulvaceus. While it is an easy to grow plant it will frequently hibernate. aponogeton cripus and aponogeton boivinianus seem to do better. Technically bolvinianus needs to hibernate but mine hasn't in 3 years; crispus in theory does not have a hibernation period but i had one either die or enter hibernation.

 

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions! Now I have quite a range to choose from. This is so helpful.

Meanwhile, I watched a few excellent videos last night on creating a build and picked up a few more tips. One suggestion was to play with models of your build, so I did that. Here's the one I like best so far; will use a few foreground, mid, and background plants with the hard scape and my healthy Anubias as shown.

FYI, the large driftwood on the left stands about 9” tall, so on top of the 3” or so of substrate, it will be about 4” below the waterline.

Thoughts/comments? Anyone see any issues or things I’d need to consider with this approach?

 

I saw in another thread you were inquiring on other gear for the tank. On my 29 I have the following:

*Marineland Penguin Pro 275 w/sponge prefilter
*Top Fin LED light w/remote. I have nothing bad to say about the light itself, but I would like more programming options like the Fluval Aquasky has.
*Aqueon preset heater sized for the tank

Been setup and running for about 8 months or so. No issues with any of the above.

My biggest issue is that my boys like to turn the light on then crank it to full intensity so I have algae on the tank walls I need to scrub off every so often. I'm working on educating the boys to not do that.

 

Background on (since I use an HOB filter, and have all of the other equipment cords hanging). Plants arrived Wednesday evening, did a bleach dip yesterday and now they'll quarantine in Prime-treated tap water, changed daily, for a week or so, to minimize potential issues.

Will be putting in the hardscape soon, possibly this week. I have Java Ferns that I want to glue to the driftwood, so I may wait on the hardscape setup until the plants are ready to go, and do everything at once.

Continue to welcome your advice and comments!

 

Oh NO!!! I need an expert's help.

My plants are soaking in a bucket of Prime-treated tap water, doing daily water changes following a bleach dip to minimize pests.

This afternoon, I discovered that 2 small soaps (about 1" in diameter eac) had fallen into the bucket. I have no idea how long they were there. I immediately drained the bucket, rinsed the plants several times, rinsed the bucket thoroughly, then put the plants back in to the bucket with fresh Prime-treated tap.

How much risk will there be to put the plants in my tank as planned, after another 5 days of soaking (with daily water changes)?

 

Probably low but before putting them in the tank i would run them under running tap water again to attempt to remove any residue.

 

Thanks, Linda. I will rinse them thoroughly after each daily water change- and perhaps I'll extend the soaking/quarantine period by a few days just to be sure.

 

Taking my mind off the plant issue, today I placed the driftwood and “river of river rock”, also have the Fluval Plant Spectrum LED in place.

 

I hope someone is reading the Forum today - I am ready to give up on my build. To say I am frustrated is an understatement...

After all the work to clean the substrate, change the substrate plan, then soaking the driftwood for weeks, bleaching then soaking the plants, dealing with soap falling into the plants, etc....

Today I tried to glue my Java Ferns to my driftwood. They would not adhere, no matter what I tried and yes, the roots are dry. I used more than a few drops in an attempt to get it to stick. No go...So off to Google i go...

Despite having researched til the cows come home how to glue plants to rocks and driftwood by watching videos, reading blogs...I now discover that the glue I'm using isn't cyanoacrylate based, as real super glue is. It's Clear Gorilla Glue, and is not waterproof, not safe for fish based on what I read in the MSDS. It contains 2 "aquatic toxic" ingredients (detailed for any of our chemist friends):

Bis(1,2,2,6,6-pentamethyl-4-piperidyl) sebacate:
Aquatic Acute 1, H400 Aquatic Chronic 1, H410

Decanedioic acid, methyl 1,2,2,6,6- pentamethyl-4-piperidinyl ester:
Aquatic Acute 1, H400 Aquatic Chronic 1, H410

Do I need to trash my driftwood? Can I just (if possible) cut off the areas where I put the glue? Or do I need to find a new hobby....

I'm going to take a break and go decorate my Christmas tree... I don't think I can screw that up....

 

You don't have to use glue for java fern you can do it in one of three ways without glue; you can use a rubber band (make sure you do not put the band over the rhizome (part the leaves connect to); you can anchor the black things (they are technically not roots) under the driftwood or in crevices. Over time they will grasp or stick to the drift wood. I never actually use glue myself though others do. You can use a knife and scrape off the glue if you are concern.

If you do use a rubber band be sure to remove it after a couple of months; and make sure it only cover the stringy black things - if it covers another part of the plant it can kill it due to pressure causing damage over time.

I personally never use glue or rubber bands.

 

Don't give up!!! It will get better. You are doing a great job! You can also use thread to attach plants, which will decompose/break over time, but by then, the plants will have attached themselves to the driftwood.

 

Thank you both - I need a breather to decide what to do overall, but your kind comments make me feel a little better. I used fishing line in my last tank, but it never held well, so thought I'd try the glue.

I've tossed 4 of the 6 Javas I bought since the rhizome and some of the roots of the plants are covered in glue.

Can I use the driftwood - if so, is it best to cut away the pieces that had glue on them? It will change the look of the wood, of course but I want to do what's safe for the fish... even if that means trashing the driftwood.

Don't give up!!! It will get better. You are doing a great job! You can also use thread to attach plants, which will decompose/break over time, but by then, the plants will have attached themselves to the driftwood.

Rose, you are always such a helpful and supportive cheerleader. (I remember how much you helped me with Rain, my granddaughter's betta). I probably won’t give up, just seriously frustrated and wonder if all of these hurdles are a message of sorts… Or maybe just a test of persistence. Thanks once again for your help.

 

For the drift wood i would just scrape off the glue you don't need to do major surgery as most of the glue should be on the surface of the wood. If your concern is the glue is both toxic and will dissolve in water I would scrape it off with a knife or file.

 

Ok, I stopped worrying and overthinking… and filled the tank.

Clearly I need more/ better plants! The crypts and moneywort have taken a beating from the bleach dip and subsequent extended soaking in a bucket. The moneywort seems to have many buds on the stalks so we'll see what happens. I have more of it but it's currently in my 5 gal, which is temporarily housing my granddaughter’s betta and friends, following a leak in her tank on Thanksgiving morning. (Yes, it’s been quite a week for us!)

The filling process was easy and stress free, thankfully. I plan to run this for at least a few weeks as it cycles, and will add more plants toward the end of the week. I do have my one zebra danio and three snails, so could do a fish-in cycle with those… maybe.

I’m running a new Aquaclear 70 HOB and find it loud- it's vibration from the cover. Who has ideas on how to silence it?

 

Option 1: Take the lid off and leave it off. I have an Aqueon Quietflow on a 10 gallon that rattles if it isn't on just so.

Option 2. Put a weight on the cover. Small decorative rock, some sort of statue/figure, other??

 

If you put a weight on the lid; i recommend a cat. Cats just love to look at aquariums from the top.

 

Here we are 2 weeks after tank fill. I’ve added several plants and most seem to be doing well.

However:

I wish I hadn’t used white sand and listened to some of you who advised against it. It’s a BEAR to keep clean, especially with my Nerites pooping all over. (Only other stock is one Zebra Danio.)

I’m also plagued with algae (brown, dusty-ish).

Doing gentle vac almost daily, which results in about 4 gals of water change each time.

Any suggestions appreciated, I’m not sure this level of maintenance is sustainable…

 

Well the good news is the tank isn't heavily stocked so redoing it isn't a major project.

If it bugs you enough, slowly remove the sand and replace with river pebble. I'd section the tank into quarters. Take out one quarter of sand, replace with pebble, and let it sit for a few days. Repeat process until sand is completely removed from tank and replaced with pebble.

 

Three quick thoughts for you: 1. add some floating plants, even if you don't want them long term. They will suck nitrates, etc. out of the water column, which should help in reducing the nutrients available to algae at the moment. Duckweed can be hard to get out, so you might think of water lettuce (check carefully for duckweed hitch-hikers) or hornwort if you want to eventually clear the tank of them; 2. The sand likely will be hard to keep that color of white long-term. But once the tank stabilizes (and especially if you have Malayasian Trumpet Snails or other helper snails), the sand should be kept fairly clean (and a darker color also helps to hide the poop).; 3. More generally, try not to worry about maintenance long-term until you hit the 2-3 month mark. My 29 gallon with multiple substrates used (dirt, sand), also required quite a bit of maintenance the first month or two, but became a relatively hands off tank after that. For now, and although I know not easy, just do what needs to be done. Once you get to 2-3 months you will have a much better idea than now of what long-term maintenance will look like.
*also, by gentle vac, do you mean a gentle gravel vac? Perhaps others can chime in with thoughts about whether this advisable or not? I can see this helping to keep the sand a whiter color, but I also know that many with planted tanks avoid gravel vacing (including myself)

 

I wouldn't worry about white-sand as substrate; over time it looks fine I think. I can show you a picture of my 3 year old aquarium when i get home.

 

also, by gentle vac, do you mean a gentle gravel vac?

I swirl my gravel vac in a circular motion about 1/8” over the substrate. Pulls up most of the detritus yet very little sand.

If it bugs you enough, slowly remove the sand and replace with river pebble.

I’ve actually added some of my flat river rock around the front of the tank. I used some as part of the aqua scape but added more to make vacuuming easier.

 

Ay carumba....what in the heck am I doing wrong??

This tank has been up for 3 weeks. I am challenged to keep up. Here are the issues:

Incredible amounts of what I think is snail poop (3 Nerites, which I also had in my 20, producing nothing like this) or maybe it's driftwood flaking, or maybe both? Pictured below is a typical one day accumulation! Vacuuming just about daily to keep up, which is a real challenge with the sand. Also vacuuming around the driftwood isn't easy, and taking it out each time disrupts the aqua scape.

Each vacuuming results in about a 4 gallon water change; I add Stability each time.

Only about half of my plants are doing OK (meaning rooted and showing new growth). I am dosing Easy Green 1x week and Easy Carbon every other day.

Diatoms still an issue, cleaning those off glass and driftwood each time I vacuum.

Using a Fluval plant light on the preset "pro" setting, giving about 10 hours of light. (I've read arguments both ways for and against light with diatoms.)

Right now I only have the Nerites and one small Zebra (who thinks he died and went to heaven with this tank all to himself). I want more stock, but not until I get this thing stabilized.

My thoughts:

1: Remove the driftwood and just concentrate on the plants for now. (I can add it back later if I want and it will answer the issue of snail poop or flaking.)

2: Redo the substrate as briangcc1977 suggests. The sand is lovely and cories will love it, but how in the world can it stay clean? I've followed all the advice and you see the mess it still is).

3: Leave everything as it is and just keep going with what I'm doing for another month. (Fortunately I'm in a slower period with work, so have the time - but it sure is a challenge!!)

All suggestions welcomed. I guess what's bugging me most is it seems to me that most other new build threads go through the build process with little to no issues, and result in beautiful tanks. I'm so far from hat I wonder if I'll ever get there....

 

You will get there...it just takes time.

Here's the deal, without reading all the way back through this build: you need nutrients in the water/substrate for your plants to really take off. Those take time to build up in a new tank. Yes you can fertilize but I've found that fish waste, uneaten food, etc kicks that process into high gear.

In my 29 I have driftwood - two pieces of Mopani along with some rocks.The substrate is Seachem Flourite capped with green gravel. I don't recommend green gravel - it goes when we tear the tank down in about 4 months....it's being upgraded to a 75. This tank has a constant battle with algae as my kids like to turn the lights on and then crank the intensity up to 11. I use a magnetic scraper to clean the glass maybe once every 2 weeks - right about when I'm doing a water change. I use 2 kitty litter pails so about 8-10 gallons in a water change with a capful of Prime - no other additives or preservatives. This tank has been running for about a year.

In this tank I have had water sprite that just goes gang busters. To the point where you trim it on Monday and by Friday it looks untouched. Recently this has been pulled out and replaced with some Rotala grow out. It houses a few monster mystery snails as I grow them out in this tank to move to others, along with a pleco, catfish and a few small tetras. Not really a large bio load by any stretch.

Your call on the sand as personally the darker stuff is what I see in nature. I've yet to encounter a snow white beach - I don't travel much so take it for what its worth.

So long way of saying....this isn't a sprint, this is a marathon. Sure you may lose plants along the way but its a way of finding out what your tank will support and adjusting as needed.



**My 75 which has been running longer is just to the point where it will support and grow stem plants. It's a gravel only substrate so it took time to build up nutrients that the roots could feed off.