Moss Balls and Nitrates

I am currently doing a fishless cycle on my tank and have been dosing ammonia. My nitrates have been steadily climbing over the past couple weeks and peaked at 80. I tested my water yesterday and saw that my nitrates dropped from 80 to 20 in about a 24 hour period. I have not performed any water changes while cycling. I have 6 large moss balls in my 29 gallon and while I know they can remove some nitrates I didn't expect to see such a large drop in such a short time. The moss balls have been in the tank about a week now and I hadn't noticed any drop in nitrates until yesterday. Are moss balls capable of removing such a large amount of nitrates in such a short time? I am nervous now that something has happened with my cycle or perhaps it has stalled.

 

Moss Balls are algae, and algae takes up ammonia before it takes up nitrates. Once the ammonia has all been "eaten", then they start on the nitrates. Up until this point, you had provided them with ammonia, and they finally caught up with the ammonia and started in on the nitrates. It also dropped quickly because there was no more ammonia to be converted to nitrites and then nitrates. Six Moss Balls are a lot for that size tank, too, with no fish in there.

 

Yeah I know. I had ordered 5 and they sent me 10. I have already given 4 away to get me down to 6. I have been dosing the tank to 2 ppm ammonia every day. I had no idea they could go through nitrates that fast. I think I might take them out so they don't effect my cycle.

 

Yeah I know. I had ordered 5 and they sent me 10. I have already given 4 away to get me down to 6. I have been dosing the tank to 2 ppm ammonia every day. I had no idea they could go through nitrates that fast. I think I might take them out so they don't effect my cycle.

At this point I would just leave them. If you're getting nitrates then your bacteria have been able to get enough ammonia to feed the population.

 

Do moss balls take nitrites as well? My nitrites are still over 5. I am going to do a water change to try and get the nitrites down to a readable level.

 

Hmm, I don't really think your moss balls would take up that much nitrate or we'd all run out and get them! Lol. Not to mention they would would consume ammonia first which would prevent nitrates from accumulating but not lowering.

Did you use any bacterial additives when you started cycling? I have seen this happen when people have used some different bacterial additives.

 

I used TSS+ when I first started the aquarium about three weeks ago.

 

The fact that you have nitrites indicates that the cycling isn't done yet. So far as I know, aquatic plants do not use nitrites.

 

I used TSS+ when I first started the aquarium about three weeks ago.

What media do you have in your filters and what is your substrate and how deep?

 

What type of media do you have in your filter?
How deep is your gravel?

I agree that it's unlikely that the moss balls are soaking up that much nitrate. But it's possible that you have some anaerobic bacteria consuming the nitrate.

Edit: Aww really? That's why I should always refresh before posting a new answer XD

 

I just bought a marimo moss ball on amazon.ca because I thought it looked pretty cool and after doing some research it seems the general thought is they do remove nitrates fairly well... but I'm not sure that they "remove" them, I think they probably just suck it up like a sponge, because you can see the inside is usually hollow on real marimo balls, so you might want to rinse them out every now and then.
Because they are are algae, and marimo means "ball seaweed" and that is what seaweed does, it helps to cleanse water. That's why it can be harmful to eat seaweeds in areas that are high in pollution, because it sucks up all toxic stuff in the water. But I have no idea, that's just what I've read.

 

Moss balls grow very slow and thus takes up little nutrients. They're mostly function as cute, little decorations

 

It is a Marineland Penguin 200 HOB filter. I have a filter cartridge that I added three weeks ago when I started the tank and a second cartridge that I added two weeks ago from an established aquarium. The owner was changing out filters and gave me her old filter from a tank that has been setup for a few years. My gravel is about 2 inches deep, maybe a little less. The substrate is just regular aquarium gravel that I bought at Petsmart.

 

What type of media do you have in your filter?
How deep is your gravel?

I agree that it's unlikely that the moss balls are soaking up that much nitrate. But it's possible that you have some anaerobic bacteria consuming the nitrate.

Edit: Aww really? That's why I should always refresh before posting a new answer XD

Ha ha almost verbatim.

I do agree its probably anaerobic. But it isn't the first time I've seen this with a fishless cycle, interesting.

 

Is this a bad thing? I just did a 50% water change and was planning on adding my ammonia back up to 2ppm but am not sure if I should. My nitrates are now down to 5 just prior to the water change. 48 hours ago they were pushing 80.

 

I don't think its a bad thing. I think you were smart to do a water change though because you want to keep the nitrites under 5.0. Looks like you're getting close though since you're on the second stage of the cycle.

And this is probably a silly question but did you shake and tap reagent no. 2 of the nitrate test on your hand or counter top before adding the drops? The contents settle and then you can false low readings.

 

Yep, shake it while banging it on the counter for 30 seconds then add and shake again for another minute.

I am debating on going out tomorrow and getting another nitrate test kit since I still am having a hard time grasping the drop in nitrates so quickly and am wondering if my nitrate test liquids are bad even though they haven't expired.

 

I would expect to see them rise again (maybe) That's a big drop in one day.

If not, you could do that but I wouldn't worry about it as long as the ammonia is being used up in 24 hours and the nitrites are still climbing or drop to 0 to show you're cycled.

 

My nitrites must be sky high. I tested nitrites after doing the 50% water change and they are still reading 5+. I am going to be doing another larger water change tomorrow I think to try to get them down to a readable level.

 

My nitrites must be sky high. I tested nitrites after doing the 50% water change and they are still reading 5+. I am going to be doing another larger water change tomorrow I think to try to get them down to a readable level.

Hmmm, I have a feeling that is related to the drop in nitrates. You can stall a cycle with too high of nitrites. They feed the bacteria but they become toxic in too high of numbers.

 

It still doesn't quite make sense. Even if the cycle stalls from high nitrites, the nitrates shouldn't "magically" drop. It should remain the same.

Also, I was always under the impression that ammonia to nitrite to nitrate was a 1:1:1 conversion. So if you had 80ppm nitrate, that would mean you added 80ppm ammonia, which I assume you didn't do. Like you say, maybe there's something wrong with your test kit.

 

I am guessing that my cycle has stalled then due to high nitrites. I have been dosing the tank with ammonia daily to get it to 2ppm for the past 3 weeks or so. I was monitoring the ammonia daily and when I saw it drop to under 1ppm then I would dose ammonia to get back up to 2ppm.

I am still not sure what is going on with the Nitrates though.

 

just before my cycle finished my nitrites went sky high. I did a PWC 4 days in a row and on the 5th day I got that beautiful baby blue in my nitrite testing bottle. I think you are almost there.

The high nitrates dropping so quickly is a puzzle but your high nitrates could have come from the well seeded filter media you got from your friend and they dropped because your tank wasn't making them yet.

 

just before my cycle finished my nitrites went sky high. I did a PWC 4 days in a row and on the 5th day I got that beautiful baby blue in my nitrite testing bottle. I think you are almost there.

The high nitrates dropping so quickly is a puzzle but your high nitrates could have come from the well seeded filter media you got from your friend and they dropped because your tank wasn't making them yet.

Well this makes me feel a little better since I was thinking that I messed something up. How large of a water change did you preform each day? I did 50% yesterday but I am not sure if that is enough.

 

I did 25% water changes in my 55 gallon. The high nitrites really worried me since I was doing a fish in cycle but all of my fish survived it.

 

It still doesn't quite make sense. Even if the cycle stalls from high nitrites, the nitrates shouldn't "magically" drop. It should remain the same.

Also, I was always under the impression that ammonia to nitrite to nitrate was a 1:1:1 conversion. So if you had 80ppm nitrate, that would mean you added 80ppm ammonia, which I assume you didn't do. Like you say, maybe there's something wrong with your test kit.

I'll ask Tetra. I know that Stability does come with bacteria that can be anaerobic (I think what they call their faculative bacteria,) so maybe TSS does too.

No, its not a 1:1:1: conversion. There was a thread on this not too long ago and its really something like this:

1 PPM NH3 = 2.7 PPM NO2 = 3.64 PPM NO3

I couldn't find the fishlore thread but found this one:
http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?m=74837
Jsigmo is this something you can confirm?

 

Well this makes me feel a little better since I was thinking that I messed something up. How large of a water change did you preform each day? I did 50% yesterday but I am not sure if that is enough.

Just try and keep them from climbing above 4.0-5.0

 

I appreciate everyone's help so I wanted to post an update.

I preformed a 50% water change tonight then waited a couple hours and retested my levels.

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 2
Nitrates - 40

My nitrates have rebounded since my testing yesterday. I suspect my nitrates were off the charts and can't help but wonder if the API test kit starts displaying colors that aren't necessarily accurate to the actual numbers because it can't go that high. Whatever it may have been I dosed the tank back up to 2ppm for ammonia and will continue to dose ammonia and do water changes to keep my levels at a readable level.

I think once I complete this fishless cycle I will make a post detailing the steps I took as well as log my test readings since I have kept a log of all of the daily testing results as well as when I dosed TSS+ and performed water changes. Maybe it will end up helping someone.

Thanks again everyone for the input. I am disappointed though... I thought for a little while there that I had super nitrate absorbing moss balls.

 

moss balls are easy, but they are algaes really, I would not so bothered....other plants are better choice

 

moss balls are easy, but they are algaes really, I would not so bothered....other plants are better choice

Not all moss balls are algae-based. Only Marimo moss balls are algae.

 

yeah right

 

yeah right

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell over text.

 

no?! Definitely not! How? I never did that, is just I am a bit tired so just two words answering.lol sorry again.

EDIT: Just knew that I had learned a new word today! YEAH!!!LOL