More Crown Tail Betta girls

Female bettas sorority tank experiment

Keeping several female bettas together is not a typical set-up due to a majority of owners reporting extreme inter-fish aggression once the females reach maturity. It requires your near-constant presence near the tank to supervise the onset of maturity, bringing about a sudden sense of terrirory in the females and causing them to severely injure, or kill, their tank mates. Very experienced betta keepers strongly discourage this practice.

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Armadillo, Fishlore moderator


I am trying the sorority tank. I got 3 of Jewel's sisters yesterday. I have been keeping an eye on their behavior at the lfs...for have so many in a 29g...they were mostly in good condition.
Man what a difference in size...Jewel alone in a tank being right made a huge difference. I read a lot up on it. I do have the space if the need separation. I also am home enough to keep an eye on them.
One thing I believe that/and read that makes a difference is if they have been brought up together. AND a big enough tank with lots of plants and hiding spots.
They have been showing no aggression so far...but it's only been a day. They have been ignoring each other except for the initial meeting. 2 of them hang out most times.
So don't worry people...I WILL make sure they have their own space if needed...I am going in this fully prepared for anything.
Here are the newbies
Lily



Holly



Molly (the shy one)

All 3 newbies & a blurry Jewel

Their tank

Jewel & Molly

 

beauties

They're beauties, I especially love those eyes. ;D

 

They're beauties, I especially love those eyes. ;D

They have the dark puppy eyes..especially Lily.

 

eyes

yea, those get you.. the opaques eyes. Teddy Bear and Angel have them in our bettas.

They have the dark puppy eyes..especially Lily.

 

They are really pretty girls!
I hope none of them get hurt but I read all the same info as you did (big tank, lots of hiding spaces/plants, young females raised together etc) and when I tried it it still ended badly. They seemed to get along really well for about 5 days, but that was only because they were all in a strange place and had not yet started to establish territory or a pecking order. Then they started showing mild aggression, chasing, flaring and posturing. I thought if this is as bad as it gets it should be okay. Then the fin nipping started and all had big chunks missing from their fins. One morning after feeding time they began fighting visciously! One girl had her teeth firmly planted my little Aenara's back and was savagely shaking her like a pitbull. Aenara had almost no tail left. The others were attacking each other badly too and even when I banged on the tank and put my hand in they would NOT stop. They even bit me on the hand and wrist dozens of times very hard. Their adrenaline was so high they attacked anything that moved. If I had not been home when this fight broke out (lucky it was my day off or I would have been at work) most or all of them would have died of their injuries.
Please be careful. Even fin nipping will ruin their appearance and they have such beautiful fins! Aenara's tail never really grew back fully and never regained any color. Sooner or later females will fight no matter how "perfect" of a situation you have in their tank. They only get more aggressive as they get older, not less. I would just hate to see anything bad happen to such a gorgeous group of female Bettas.

 

They are really pretty girls!
I hope none of them get hurt but I read all the same info as you did (big tank, lots of hiding spaces/plants, young females raised together etc) and when I tried it it still ended badly. They seemed to get along really well for about 5 days, but that was only because they were all in a strange place and had not yet started to establish territory or a pecking order. Then they started showing mild aggression, chasing, flaring and posturing. I thought if this is as bad as it gets it should be okay. Then the fin nipping started and all had big chunks missing from their fins. One morning after feeding time they began fighting visciously! One girl had her teeth firmly planted my little Aenara's back and was savagely shaking her like a pitbull. Aenara had almost no tail left. The others were attacking each other badly too and even when I banged on the tank and put my hand in they would NOT stop. They even bit me on the hand and wrist dozens of times very hard. Their adrenaline was so high they attacked anything that moved. If I had not been home when this fight broke out (lucky it was my day off or I would have been at work) most or all of them would have died of their injuries.
Please be careful. Even fin nipping will ruin their appearance and they have such beautiful fins! Aenara's tail never really grew back fully and never regained any color. Sooner or later females will fight no matter how "perfect" of a situation you have in their tank. They only get more aggressive as they get older, not less. I would just hate to see anything bad happen to such a gorgeous group of female Bettas.

I have their tank by our pc in the living room where we are most of the time.
As soon as I see any aggression I WILL remove the aggressor to her own tank. I can split 2 10gs if they need their own space...which I am totally expecting to happen. It has been done before....so I am *hoping* it'll work for me. I am making a journal of the sorority tank...when I have it online I will make a post about it. I am hoping since they are so young that they "may" be more accepting...they've never known that they could live alone *yet* except Jewel. Soo I am hoping that may make a difference.
I am making sure that I pay equal amount of attention to each girl.
I also read that it takes about a month for them to establish their pecking order so if the fish and I can make it thru the month then maybe they will ok.
I was hesitant last week b/c I wasn't sure if we had the tank space, heaters, filters for 3 more betta. I am prepared for 6 individual betta tanks...we have enough tanks for all.

 

just in case..

Do you have: VitaChem, Rid-Fungus, Fish Protector and/or Triple Sulfa? Just in case you need them.. sort of the medicinal prep to go with the tanks prep.

 

Do you have: VitaChem, Rid-Fungus, Fish Protector and/or Triple Sulfa? Just in case you need them.. sort of the medicinal prep to go with the tanks prep.

We are getting all kinds of meds next time we go to the lfs. I was wondering what to use for possible injuries (I usually use Melafix)

 

Please NEVER use Melafix on a Betta! Read the warning stickied at the top of the forum! Melafix is dangerous to Bettas and all labrynth fish like gouramis. It has killed several of our member's fish including Rose's Betta.

Best meds to have on hand are:
Maracyn and Maracyn-Two
Triple Sulfa (for finrot and external infections)
Jungle Fungus Clear (or Fungus Eliminator which is even stronger and better)
Jungle Parasite Clear
Jungle Antibacterial medicated food (excellent for finrot and other problems)
Kanaplex ( very strong med for serious problems like dropsy and TB or where nothing else works and the fish may not live)
Kordon's Rid-Fungus (A good non antibiotic natural med)
Some type of vitamins such Vitachem or Kent Zoe freshwater vitamins.

I noticed one of your girls already has a big piece nipped out of her analfin all the way to her body. This could be very bad for her if she develops finrot as it does not have far to go to reach her body and kill her. Even stress like being bullied could make her very sick.
One of the many problems with an all female tank is when one gets sick (and sooner or later they do) she needs to be removed for treatment which upsets the whole balance of the pecking order and when she goes back in it causes problems again.

 

those products (VitaChem, Fish Protector, Rid Fungus and Triple Sulfa) would deal with most injuries and related problems. The VitaChem and Fish Protector most likely will have to be ordered online.

We are getting all kinds of meds next time we go to the lfs. I was wondering what to use for possible injuries (I usually use Melafix)

 

Please NEVER use Melafix on a Betta! Read the warning stickied at the top of the forum! Melafix is dangerous to Bettas and all labrynth fish like gouramis. It has killed several of our member's fish including Rose's Betta.

Best meds to have on hand are:
Maracyn and Maracyn-Two
Triple Sulfa (for finrot and external infections)
Jungle Fungus Clear (or Fungus Eliminator which is even stronger and better)
Jungle Parasite Clear
Jungle Antibacterial medicated food (excellent for finrot and other problems)
Kanaplex ( very strong med for serious problems like dropsy and TB or where nothing else works and the fish may not live)
Kordon's Rid-Fungus (A good non antibiotic natural med)
Some type of vitamins such Vitachem or Kent Zoe freshwater vitamins.

I noticed one of your girls already has a big piece nipped out of her analfin all the way to her body. This could be very bad for her if she develops finrot as it does not have far to go to reach her body and kill her. Even stress like being bullied could make her very sick.
One of the many problems with an all female tank is when one gets sick (and sooner or later they do) she needs to be removed for treatment which upsets the whole balance of the pecking order and when she goes back in it causes problems again.

That girl came like that...I have been watching them. Yes \I know all about Melafix and Betta which I usually use it on my other fish...but know I cannot on my Betta babies which is why I was asking the question about what else to use.

 

My girlfriend has a tank like this for months now, with very good results. The girls seem to get along rather well.

The only difference I can see is the additon of some neon and glolite tetras.

As far as aggression goes, I have seen some chasing, but it ends very quickly. There are a few groups that hang out together. Every body seems to have their favorite girlfriend to hang out with...and they're all different. LOL So it's all good so far.

 

I hope it works out well for them and you. I love females and a tank of them would be a fab dream however I doubt its possible from what I have seen and read. You have beautiful girls there and the fact you have plans A,B,C inplace if probs occur is really nice to hear, well done you! I HOPE it works out well and will say great fish owner for having a back up plan!! If it works..........no michelle.............I was gonna say i'd try!!............but i'm too skint!! ...................michelle SHUT UP!

 

My girlfriend has a tank like this for months now, with very good results. The girls seem to get along rather well.

The only difference I can see is the additon of some neon and glolite tetras.

As far as aggression goes, I have seen some chasing, but it ends very quickly. There are a few groups that hang out together. Every body seems to have their favorite girlfriend to hang out with...and they're all different. LOL So it's all good so far.

That good to hear. I was thinking on adding some white cloud minnows as dither fish...we can get those for really cheap from a guy one of our lfs.

 

white cloud minnows from my experience can be and often are fin nippers. Keep that in mind! I wouldn't have them with my bettas but I own them and love them!

 

The reason we went with neons was the whole nipping thing. Neons tend to be small fish, so nipping a bigger fish, like a betta...not too smart for them. LOL So, they tend to stick to themselves. Plus, as the dither fish, they tend to very calming since they are everywhere in the tank. We have 9...and I wish we have 9 more, since schools of them are cool to watch. I call them comic relief, because they can do some goofy stuff if you watch long enough.

 

white cloud minnows from my experience can be and often are fin nippers. Keep that in mind! I wouldn't have them with my bettas but I own them and love them!

I haven' ever had any problems with WC minnow nipping in any other the betta tanks we had.

All the betta girls are still getting along ok as of late. So day two still no aggression shown in my presence.

 

a sorority tank is at best balancing on a wire. i'd really avoid anything that could tip that balance. from our experience and the others we've read about, a collapse into anarchy is usually triggered by 1 small event that breaks the fragile balance.

 

well I must have a 'bad' bunch of minnows!! wouldn't shock me, all my pets are odd!!

Oopps forgotten what I was about to say?....should I type that??

oh yeah, females of ANY species bicker/fight etc as pet owners we can forget this. My horse and my friends are both mares and in the same field ( most people here dislike/hate mares as they have a mind of their own!!) some days they adore each other, others they try to beat the life out of eachother! well usually my mates horse beats mine up but do you get my drift? Females of any species are FAB!!!! but unpredictable..............I should know....I am one!!!

 

well I must have a 'bad' bunch of minnows!! wouldn't shock me, all my pets are odd!!

Oopps forgotten what I was about to say?....should I type that??

oh yeah, females of ANY species bicker/fight etc as pet owners we can forget this. My horse and my friends are both mares and in the same field ( most people here dislike/hate mares as they have a mind of their own!!) some days they adore each other, others they try to beat the life out of eachother! well usually my mates horse beats mine up but do you get my drift? Females of any species are FAB!!!! but unpredictable..............I should know....I am one!!!

I hear ya on that one...I have a mood disorder.
It's day 5 and no bickering...yet.

 

And I upgraded them to a 20 gallon today...just in case space becomes an issue. I'll post pixs as soon as the tank isn't cloudy from the shuffle.

 

sounds good. i'm glad they're getting along.

 

sounds good. i'm glad they're getting along.

Me too...they are still very young & tiny so maybe that's a factor...shhh don't want to jinx it.
They look even smaller in the 20 gallon lol.

 

Check out the double rays on the tail!!!

Allie, are you worried about the frayed fin of one of them? It was missing two whole webs. Wondering if it's not a bit of finrot.

Oh, and would you consider adding lost of (real or fake) soft, low, broad leaved plants? I think that will increases your chances of success with the sorority.

 

Check out the double rays on the tail!!!

Allie, are you worried about the frayed fin of one of them? It was missing two whole webs. Wondering if it's not a bit of finrot.

Oh, and would you consider adding lost of (real or fake) soft, low, broad leaved plants? I think that will increases your chances of success with the sorority.

I am getting more real plants soon. Plus most of the plants we have are fast growers. They will fill up the upper part of the tank in no time.
They've been treated for Holly's fin rot & Molly's mouth fungus the first week I got them. I used EM tablets...they work wonders. The ripped fins & mouth injury were from before they came here. The fins have some growth already.

It's been a week since they've been in the same tank together. Still keeping to themselves.

 

;D that's great! I wish ours had.. they just were too aggressive I guess, since they didn't even go a full day without war breaking out.

It's been a week since they've been in the same tank together. Still keeping to themselves.

 

That's really good. What I would worry about, is maturity. I have no idea when they hit 'puberty', but I expect there might be a lot of changes then.

 

Mine are now full grown and VERY aggressive. They flare more than the males and battle each other through the divider. Even those few people who've managed to keep them from killing each other for awhile has had trouble when they get older. Being used to each other makes no difference. Their personalities change and they become very aggressive towards other Bettas and sometimes other types of fish. My males have only gotten more docile with age.

 

Mine are now full grown and VERY aggressive. They flare more than the males and battle each other through the divider. Even those few people who've managed to keep them from killing each other for awhile has had trouble when they get older. Being used to each other makes no difference. Their personalities change and they become very aggressive towards other Bettas and sometimes other types of fish. My males have only gotten more docile with age.

When their personalities DO change I have the space to separate them. I am fully aware of how aggressive fish can be...we kept piranha for over a year.

 

I would really beg of you to at least let it be known that your results are not typical and that the bettas are VERY YOUNG and the tank is not that old yet. It bothers me a bit that you seem to be suggesting this is a Good thing to do and the new betta owners who do not know of how many really bad disasters have happened may set up a tank and go for it without knowing of the possible consequences. You are an experienced fishkeeper and have taken this on as an informed owner and we have to be responsible to let those who are not so fortunate know that there are serious risks involved. It could make the difference in totally discouraging them from having a future in fishkeeping if they were to have that kind of disaster. I had kept bettas for quite a while before my sorority tank meltdown and it nearly ruined my fishkeeping forever.

Rose

 

I would really beg of you to at least let it be known that your results are not typical and that the bettas are VERY YOUNG and the tank is not that old yet. It bothers me a bit that you seem to be suggesting this is a Good thing to do and the new betta owners who do not know of how many really bad disasters have happened may set up a tank and go for it without knowing of the possible consequences. You are an experienced fishkeeper and have taken this on as an informed owner and we have to be responsible to let those who are not so fortunate know that there are serious risks involved. It could make the difference in totally discouraging them from having a future in fishkeeping if they were to have that kind of disaster. I had kept bettas for quite a while before my sorority tank meltdown and it nearly ruined my fishkeeping forever.

Rose

I am not suggesting it as a good thing to do. If anyone has been paying attention to any of my posts. I have warned other not to do it. If you check other posts which other people have asked about it. If people ask me about I tell them don't do it. So I really don't appreciate the assumption that I don't warn people or care.
I created my site about my sorority girls for a reason.

 

I think it might help to write a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread, something along the lines of:

Keeping several female bettas together is not a typical set-up due to a majority of owners reporting extreme inter-fish aggression once the females reach maturity. It requires your near-constant presence near the tank to supervise the onset of maturity, bringing about a sudden sense of terrirory in the females and causing them to severely injure, or kill, their tank mates. Very experienced betta keepers strongly discourage this practice.

---

Armadillo, Fishlore moderator

Allie, would you agree with me putting that disclaimer signed by myself, in the first post?

That way, we can withdraw from the controversial nature of the experiment, we can make it clear that this is very high in risk, and we can continue to hear of your results with an open mind.

I know you have a very broad experience in keeping a variety of fish, and I know that you love your fish and would not deliberately, or through negligence, let one be hurt, so I really hope your project is a success, although reports of failure abound, and I understand Rose' concerns that it might encourage others to take the same risk.

 

I think it might help to write a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread, something along the lines of:

Keeping several female bettas together is not a typical set-up due to a majority of owners reporting extreme inter-fish aggression once the females reach maturity. It requires your near-constant presence near the tank to supervise the onset of maturity, bringing about a sudden sense of terrirory in the females and causing them to severely injure, or kill, their tank mates. Very experienced betta keepers strongly discourage this practice.

---

Armadillo, Fishlore moderator

Allie, would you agree with me putting that disclaimer signed by myself, in the first post?

That way, we can withdraw from the controversial nature of the experiment, we can make it clear that this is very high in risk, and we can continue to hear of your results with an open mind.

I know you have a very broad experience in keeping a variety of fish, and I know that you love your fish and would not deliberately, or through negligence, let one be hurt, so I really hope your project is a success, although reports of failure abound, and I understand Rose' concerns that it might encourage others to take the same risk.

Sure go for it, if it'll make people feel better than it's a good idea.
Week 2 and they are still getting along even with just 3 in there. Still so far so good in the sorority tank.

 

have you noticed any behavior indicating territorial establishment? and/or enforcement?

 

Thanks a lot, Allie. With the disclaimer, it will be totally clear that you're not encouraging it, but just trying this for yourself. You've said this a lot, but in the middle of posts. Maybe in nice big red characters, the message will be unmissable.

I've also changed the title so people know what it's about. If you get slack for it for maybe advertising the experiment or something, please say I changed it.

I think there's room on the forum for controversial issues, but we need to watch them a bit more than the other ones, to make sure newbies don't run into trouble, and to make sure passions don't rise too much and forum relationships don't get damaged. And betta sorority tanks is definitely one such issue. It's right up there with live feeding and other touchy subjects in the hobby.

 

have you noticed any behavior indicating territorial establishment? and/or enforcement?

Jewel is getting bit more dominant but not like I have been expecting. A good long chase around the tank and she's done. For the most part they keep to themselves...again, as of so far. They all seem to be getting ready to have eggs, but nothing too violent happening yet.

Thanks a lot, Allie. With the disclaimer, it will be totally clear that you're not encouraging it, but just trying this for yourself. You've said this a lot, but in the middle of posts. Maybe in nice big red characters, the message will be unmissable.

I've also changed the title so people know what it's about. If you get slack for it for maybe advertising the experiment or something, please say I changed it.

I think there's room on the forum for controversial issues, but we need to watch them a bit more than the other ones, to make sure newbies don't run into trouble, and to make sure passions don't rise too much and forum relationships don't get damaged. And betta sorority tanks is definitely one such issue. It's right up there with live feeding and other touchy subjects in the hobby.

No problem...I definitely think that is a good idea...considering most of everyone who has tried a sorority tank it has not worked out for them. If I get slack I can handle it.
You should have seen the messages my bf got when we were keeping the large piranha. If people only knew how much money we have spent on shrimp, not for ourselves either.

 

Yeah, it's amazing how many controversial subjects there are in fishkeeping. Not least the needs of a goldfish which, believe it or not, is causing a major rift between myself and my parents.

 

Yeah, it's amazing how many controversial subjects there are in fish keeping. Not least the needs of a goldfish which, believe it or not, is causing a major rift between myself and my parents.

Everyone has their own opinions, and ways they do things. The problem is the old beliefs about goldfish & betta.
I honestly didn't know until I started actually researching gold fish last year, that they get very large. I feel horrible now about having 8 fancy goldfish in a 20g. They are very dirty too so they NEED a filter and weekly water changes just like other fish. Our friend gave us 3 goldfish that were in a 5 gallon for 3 years...they were so small. Once I got them in the 20 gallon they actually started to grow again. I was getting into african cichlids so I trade them for african fry.

 

I'd love a goldfish tank, but I just don't have the space for a 50G for 4 of them.

 

do the others seem to have established territories of their own?

Jewel is getting bit more dominant but not like I have been expecting. A good long chase around the tank and she's done. For the most part they keep to themselves...again, as of so far. They all seem to be getting ready to have eggs, but nothing too violent happening yet.