Molting problems, don't know what's wrong

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
All of my cherry shrimp are dying one by one to molting problems.

Parameters:
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Temp 72 degrees F
KH 4
GH 12
*I have a handful of argonite in a stocking in my tank to keep the KH up because it would be really low/zero otherwise

My parameters seem OK, and the guys at my LFS told me that they keep RCS in worse conditions in their home tanks. But mine keep dying so I figured I could at least try to lower my GH. My tap GH is around 15 or higher even, so I have been adding distilled water in my last two weekly water changes. My GH was 13 after my water change on March 11 and it is now 11/12 after a water change on March 17. Unfortunately I just had another girl die on me tonight. Did she die because her shell was too hard from back when the GH was really high? And things will get better as I keep adding distilled water during regular weekly water changes? What am I doing wrong???
 

david1978

Member
I don't have the answer but I will mention richie.p so he sees this thread.
 

Cheesecake

Member
david1978 said:
I don't have the answer but I will mention richie.p so he sees this thread.
When all else fails in a shrimp thread just mention richie.p.
 

JettsPapa

Member
Hello,

I've only been keeping cherry shrimp for a short time, but I'll try to help until someone more experienced comes along.
  1. How old is the tank?
  2. How long ago did you add the shrimp?
  3. What acclimation method did you use, and for how long?
  4. What are you feeding them?
  5. How often do you change water, and how much?
  6. When did the shrimp start dying?
 

richiep

Member
Those questions by JettsPapa are really important do please answer them, we also need closeup photos of the living and dead before removing from the tank
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
JettsPapa said:
Hello,

I've only been keeping cherry shrimp for a short time, but I'll try to help until someone more experienced comes along.
  1. How old is the tank?
  2. How long ago did you add the shrimp?
  3. What acclimation method did you use, and for how long?
  4. What are you feeding them?
  5. How often do you change water, and how much?
  6. When did the shrimp start dying?
The tank is 6/7 months old. The shrimp were added about a month and a half ago. I floated the bag for 30 minutes then very slowly added tank water to the bag until it was full and then added the shrimp to the tank. They eat shrimp king complete and whatever the White Cloud Minnows don't get which is primarily tropical bug bites. They occasionally get frozen brine shrimp. I change the water weekly. I change out two gallons from the tank which is a 15 gallon. The shrimp started dying about three weeks ago.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
Those questions by JettsPapa are really important do please answer them, we also need closeup photos of the living and dead before removing from the tank
I don't have any pictures of the dead because they were removed as soon as I noticed they were dead, but they all had the white ring of death. I'll attach pics of the living once the tank lights pop on in a few hours. Thank you!!!
 

richiep

Member
We need a lot more detail than your giving I suggest you fill our the form below the best you can, you are putting stale and dirty water from a old setup into your shrimp tank this in its self will stress and kill shrimp, you don't say how you go through this procedure. Changing water it not like the same as fish shrimp need fresh water, you could also have introduced disease by adding the water from the bag they came in so there's lots to look at but most important is all the information to build a picture. I know some of the information as already been given but its all important when it comes to shrimp
*What species is your problem related to? (e.g. Red Cherry Shrimp)

Water Parameters

Please give as many as possible
PH
GH
KH
Nitrites
Nitrates
Ammonia
Copper
TDS
Temperature

Your Aquarium

Size?
How long has this tank been set up?
Are there any other inhabitants?
What is your water change schedule and%?
What do you feed and how often?
Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc)
Filtration?
Substrate?

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)

How long has the invert been in the tank?
How did you acclimate them?

Please explain your problem with as much information as possible and include pictures if you can.
 

JettsPapa

Member
richie.p said:
...you are putting stale and dirty water from a old setup into your shrimp tank this in its self will stress and kill shrimp, you don't say how you go through this procedure.
richie.p,

She didn't say she dumped the water from the bag into the tank, just that she added tank water to the bag until it was full and then added the shrimp. Maybe she did dump it in, but that's not how I read it.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
We need a lot more detail than your giving I suggest you fill our the form below the best you can, you are putting stale and dirty water from a old setup into your shrimp tank this in its self will stress and kill shrimp, you don't say how you go through this procedure. Changing water it not like the same as fish shrimp need fresh water, you could also have introduced disease by adding the water from the bag they came in so there's lots to look at but most important is all the information to build a picture. I know some of the information as already been given but its all important when it comes to shrimp
*What species is your problem related to? (e.g. Red Cherry Shrimp)

Water Parameters

Please give as many as possible
PH
GH
KH
Nitrites
Nitrates
Ammonia
Copper
TDS
Temperature

Your Aquarium

Size?
How long has this tank been set up?
Are there any other inhabitants?
What is your water change schedule and%?
What do you feed and how often?
Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc)
Filtration?
Substrate?

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)

How long has the invert been in the tank?
How did you acclimate them?

Please explain your problem with as much information as possible and include pictures if you can.
I didn't dump the bag water in. When I introduced the shrimp to the tank I carefully scooped them out of the bag and placed the net in the tank and let them swim off the net of their own accord.

As for water changes: I do them weekly. I gravel vac into a two gallon bucket. I then clean the intake sponge in the dirty water. I dump that water. I fill the bucket with distilled water from the grocery store. I used to just add tap water, but that might be the issue since the GH is very high. The water is room temp, which matches the temp of the tank. The tank is always at 72. I have a heater in there just in case the temp dips, but it rarely pops on. I add Prime to the distilled water out of an abundance of caution. I then slowly pour the water into the tank. I have a 15 gallon tank and change out two gallons every water change once a week.

PH: 7.6-7.8
GH 11/12
KH 4
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
Ammonia 0
Copper 0
TDS 823 (this might be the issues!)
Temperature 72

Your Aquarium

Size? 15 gallon

How long has this tank been set up? 6 months

Are there any other inhabitants? White Cloud Minnows (7), Amano shrimp (2), Clown Plecco (1)

What is your water change schedule and%? 13%

What do you feed and how often? Shrimp King complete, plus occasional brine shrimp, and uneaten Bug Bites Tropical that the Minnows leave behind, I put a small Shrimp King pellet in every day, I also tried to feed them organic blanched dandelion but they didn't touch it

Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc): Prime during water changes, Easy Green Fert irregularly and when I do, I dose one pump which would be enough for a ten gallon tank. A handful of aragonite in a stocking to keep the KH up since it would otherwise be 0/1. I did add General Cure when I saw little parasites poking out the rostrum of one shrimp. That was about a month ago. I had also "conditioned" the water with aquarium salt per a recommendation from my LFS back when I only had White Cloud Minnows. I bet this is why the TDS is so high. Gosh, the TDS should be coming down now though since I've been doing water changes with distilled water.

Filtration? Fluval C2 (I removed the carbon pad and replaced with bio rings, added sponge to the intake

Substrate? Gravel

Decorations: Spider wood, cholla wood

Plants: Java moss, java fern, water sprite, moss balls

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)

How long has the invert been in the tank? About a month and a half
How did you acclimate them? I floated the bag for 30 minutes then very slowly added tank water to the bag until it was full. I added probably about a 1/4 cup of water at a time at 4 minute intervals (I know every 4 min seems odd, but I read that's how you do it) and then added the shrimp to the tank. When I introduced the shrimp to the tank I carefully scooped them out of the bag and placed the net in the tank and let them swim off the net of their own accord. The bagged water was poured out in my bathroom sink.

Final Thoughts: If the TDS is the issue, I assume I keep doing water changes with distilled/ro water. What's the quickest I can do water changes and not stress the shrimp?
 

richiep

Member
Ok rabbit a little confusion but getting there lol I also miss read and thought you were putting water from a 15 gal into your shrimp tank, I'm so sorry for miss reading what you put there's no excuses,
Let's have some photos and I want to read back through everything after I ifnish all my water changes have a shower and with the rest of the shrimpers let's see what we come up with,
 

JettsPapa

Member
richie.p said:
Ok rabbit a little confusion but getting there lol I also miss read and thought you were putting water from a 15 gal into your shrimp tank, I'm so sorry for miss reading what you put there's no excuses,
Let's have some photos and I want to read back through everything after I ifnish all my water changes have a shower and with the rest of the shrimpers let's see what we come up with,
I'm curious about what you think regarding the kh, gh, distilled water, etc. That stuff is way beyond me.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
Ok rabbit a little confusion but getting there lol I also miss read and thought you were putting water from a 15 gal into your shrimp tank, I'm so sorry for miss reading what you put there's no excuses,
Let's have some photos and I want to read back through everything after I ifnish all my water changes have a shower and with the rest of the shrimpers let's see what we come up with,
Thank you! The whole reason I started the 15 gallon was so I could have shrimp. I broke the tank in with some dainos and that snowballed into adding corydoras and then a friend moved and left me her 55 full of fish, so the danios and corys went into the 55. I then added White Clouds and shrimp to the 15 at the 6 month mark figuring the tank was established enough for shrimp. All that to say, I love my shrimp and am so sad that they keep dying on me!
 

richiep

Member
I must say you're on the ball with what your doing and how your doing it, have you tested your tap water parameters it may be worth it to get a full comparison and I mean all tests like youve don on the tanks
at the moment I tend to think the same way as you and even today's death is related to issues from a few weeks ago, its very important not to jump the gun by doing anything drastic like big water changes unless needed I see this all to often when the first thing some think is advise on big changes but reading what your doing is the right way to go, that's for the benefit of anyone reading this these situations need to be approached carefully sorting one thing at a time just like you are doing
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
I must say you're on the ball with what your doing and how your doing it, have you tested your tap water parameters it may be worth it to get a full comparison and I mean all tests like youve don on the tanks
at the moment I tend to think the same way as you and even today's death is related to issues from a few weeks ago, its very important not to jump the gun by doing anything drastic like big water changes unless needed I see this all to often when the first thing some think is advise on big changes but reading what your doing is the right way to go, that's for the benefit of anyone reading this these situations need to be approached carefully sorting one thing at a time just like you are doing
Thank you wise shrimp sage! I'll keep up the small water changes with distilled water (if I can find any in the stores - three places were totally out of water today). How often can I change the water to get the GH and TDS down? Is weekly as frequently as I should be changing?
 

richiep

Member
There are other ways around this .
Dose your lfs sell RO water
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
There are other ways around this .
Dose your lfs sell RO water
They do, but since it isn't nearby distilled water from the grocery store is easier. Given the water shortage currently, I will call the LFS and see if they have any ro water and if they're even open.
 

richiep

Member
It's difficult times all round, my thought was to change that tank to pure Ro water and remineralis but that may be difficult at this time, what part of the world are you
 

Algonquin

Member
rabbitsnfoxes said:
I did add General Cure when I saw little parasites poking out the rostrum of one shrimp. That was about a month ago.
Maybe tell us a bit more about this.... ?
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
richie.p said:
It's difficult times all round, my thought was to change that tank to pure Ro water and remineralis but that may be difficult at this time, what part of the world are you
I'm in Maryland, USA
 

richiep

Member
never been there but told its nice.
how about the full parameters on the tap water an those photes
the other thing think back and have any moult issues come to light just after adding meds or water changes as in within a week
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
It is a beautiful place, especially this time of year when everything is blooming.

Here are some pics, let me know if you need more or if you need closeups of anything specific.

They have been dying pretty consistently the past few weeks, so it's hard to know if it's water changes, but there seems to have been an uptick since adding the general cure for the parasites. I dosed according to the package instructions.

Tap Water Parameters:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Copper: 0
pH: 8.2
GH: 4
KH: 3
TDS: 140

So my tap water isn't too bad. I bet the "conditioning" salt and the general cure bumped my tank's TDS way up and that's the issue. Or maybe it was the aragonite. Thoughts on removing the aragonite? How many water changes can I do in a week to get the GH and TDS down, and should I use my tap water or stick with distilled/RO?
 

tjander

Member
@op. Not sure where you are in Maryland. I am in Pasadena. Give House of Tropics in Glen Burnie a call for RO water. You will need you own bucket. I use a Home Depot 5 gallon bucket.
I assume they are open, but I don’t know for sure.
Very helpful people though they will try to sell you stuff. Just stop at the counter and pay for you water.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
@op. Not sure where you are in Maryland. I am in Pasadena. Give House of Tropics in Glen Burnie a call for RO water. You will need you own bucket. I use a Home Depot 5 gallon bucket.
I assume they are open, but I don’t know for sure.
Very helpful people though they will try to sell you stuff. Just stop at the counter and pay for you water.
I'm in Catonsville, so I'll definitely visit House of Tropicals tomorrow. I had actually just checked their Facebook page and they are open tomorrow.

I don't have a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. Do you think they would fill gallon jugs for me?
 

richiep

Member
Thanks tjander for that,
Ok rabbit its pointing towards the meds and salt especially looking at the tds.
You can do your 13% change with all ro water in fact you can do 50% your only diluting the tank which is the same as it raining in the wild if its possible use some airline and try and put your new water higher than the tank and leave it siphon slowly try and put the pipe in the heater area just incase it needs warming
Those shrimp look fine there's no white line there, I think your deaths are a knock on from those meds
tjander any thoughts it's so easy to miss something in these situations
 

tjander

Member
So first off call House of Tropics before you drive there. They don’t always update the web page. Second, if you at all don’t feel good please do t go. I will be in myself today ( OK I am half joking but let’s not lose sight of the crisis we are in )
I don’t think it would be a problem a gallon is a gallon and that’s what they sell a gallon of RO water.

IRT the issues I think your TDS is way too high and to be honest your TDS does not match what your reporting for your water parameters. I have only seen 800 TDS when your nitrates are very high. So, You might want to take a sample of your water to HOT when you get your water and have them test it. Ask them about GH and KH measurements.
Again call them before you drive over, just to make sure they are open.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
So first off call House of Tropics before you drive there. They don’t always update the web page. Second, if you at all don’t feel good please do t go. I will be in myself today ( OK I am half joking but let’s not lose sight of the crisis we are in )
I don’t think it would be a problem a gallon is a gallon and that’s what they sell a gallon of RO water.

IRT the issues I think your TDS is way too high and to be honest your TDS does not match what your reporting for your water parameters. I have only seen 800 TDS when your nitrates are very high. So, You might want to take a sample of your water to HOT when you get your water and have them test it. Ask them about GH and KH measurements.
Again call them before you drive over, just to make sure they are open.
I went to House of Tropics and got a few gallons of RO water. I think the TDS is sky-high because of the salt and meds I had added. I hope everyone makes it until I can get it down to a safer level.

Parameters right now after a morning water change of 2 gallon with distilled water:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Copper: 0
pH: 7.8
GH: 11
KH: 3
TDS: 747
 

tjander

Member
Well that’s a start. Just out of Curiosity what is your tap water test at? TDS specifically. But do all the tests. No need to do copper though. So Run a sample let it sit with an air stone in it for 24 hours and measure. Also check your TDS in the tank again tomorrow to see if it coming back up. Don’t do a water change for 3-4 days
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
Well that’s a start. Just out of Curiosity what is your tap water test at? TDS specifically. But do all the tests. No need to do copper though. So Run a sample let it sit with an air stone in it for 24 hours and measure. Also check your TDS in the tank again tomorrow to see if it coming back up. Don’t do a water change for 3-4 days
My tap parameters straight out of the faucet are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Copper: 0
pH: 8.2
GH: 4
KH: 3
TDS: 140

I'm setting up an air stone right now so I can run it in a bucket of tap overnight and test in the AM. Stay tuned! I'll also test the tank TDS in the AM too to see if it goes up. There just HAS to be a way for me to get the TDS back down after getting it up this high (due to adding meds and salt). My 55 has a TDS in the low 400s.
 

tjander

Member
Are you adding fertilizer to the water? Also do you have a filter with carbon or other media in it?

Also it will come down I would stop adding anything to it but the RO water again 15 to 20% changes every 3-4 days.

The point of testing your tap water is it’s probably clean enough to use saving you the hassle of getting the RO water. Initial indications looks pretty good the ph is a bit high but I bet after off gassing it will be down.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
Are you adding fertilizer to the water? Also do you have a filter with carbon or other media in it?

Also it will come down I would stop adding anything to it but the RO water again 15 to 20% changes every 3-4 days.

The point of testing your tap water is it’s probably clean enough to use saving you the hassle of getting the RO water. Initial indications looks pretty good the ph is a bit high but I bet after off gassing it will be down.
My tap water parameters after leaving the tap water in a bucket with an air stone running for nearly 24 hours:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
Copper: 0
pH: 7.8
GH: 5
KH: 3
TDS: 125

I used to put one squirt (the does for a ten gallon tank) in on an infrequent basis, but have not done so in at least two weeks.

Current TDS in my shrimp tank (I topped off with RO water last night): 695
 

tjander

Member
Look like it’s coming down. Your water after 24 hours looks good as well PH is a bit higher then I would like but not enough to worry about it. I would think a good course would be to continue to use the RO water till you get down to the 300 and then you could switch to tap water.
Tell me about your filter?
Also don’t forget that your shrimp will need calcium Blanched Kale is a good source. Also don’t forget to use prime to your tap water when you start using it.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
Look like it’s coming down. Your water after 24 hours looks good as well PH is a bit higher then I would like but not enough to worry about it. I would think a good course would be to continue to use the RO water till you get down to the 300 and then you could switch to tap water.
Tell me about your filter?
Also don’t forget that your shrimp will need calcium Blanched Kale is a good source. Also don’t forget to use prime to your tap water when you start using it.
Yeah, I don't love the pH either. There really isn't a way to lower it without messing with other parameters, grrrr.

My filter is a Fluval C2. I added an intake sponge and removed the carbon insert, replacing it with bio rings. There is no chemical filtration, just biological and mechanical. My water is super clear

And I have a whole garden full of kale, and multiple varieties at that! They didn't like the blanched dandelion leaves I gave them, but I'll keep trying. Blanched kale is in there right now. I'll try grapes leaves and mulberry leaves once things in my garden leaf out (I have a grape vine so I can confirm the leaves are organic).

And yes to Prime. I'm so paranoid that I've been dosing the distilled and RO water!

Thank you, when corona-virus is all over we should meetup so I can buy you a drink!
 

tjander

Member
As far as them eating, I have found if you don’t feed them for a couple days they will eat most anything. Good to hear about the filter, I had a high TDS and after pulling the media out it went down. A PH of 7.8 is not that bad. If you really wanted to drop it and conserve RO water you could always cut the RO with tap to get a good PH level of around 7.4. One thing I would caution you on is do not try to add chemicals to lower the PH. It’s a recipe for disaster. I think if you keep going with what your doing it should all work out.
IRT drinks, I am a retired sailor so need I say more.
 
  • Thread Starter

rabbitsnfoxes

Member
tjander said:
As far as them eating, I have found if you don’t feed them for a couple days they will eat most anything. Good to hear about the filter, I had a high TDS and after pulling the media out it went down. A PH of 7.8 is not that bad. If you really wanted to drop it and conserve RO water you could always cut the RO with tap to get a good PH level of around 7.4. One thing I would caution you on is do not try to add chemicals to lower the PH. It’s a recipe for disaster. I think if you keep going with what your doing it should all work out.
IRT drinks, I am a retired sailor so need I say more.
Yeah, I think I'll let the pH be. Change one thing and a cascade of other things happen. And yes, let's pencil in a drink There are a lot of very experienced ship captains in my family along with some fishermen/clammers. I grew up on Long Island.
 

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