150 Gallon Tank Mollys guppy and betta died

mrcashback
  • #1
We have a large tank with an aquaponics system.
Neons, angels silver dollars, guppies, betas, tigerbarbs, blue ram, fresh water flounder, spiney eels, bristle nose, mollys and all were living harmoniously.

We added 5x white mollys and 3x spotted mollys and within 2-3days all the spotted mollys were dead. Followed by 3 white mollys a day latter, 1x guppy, and now a sick beta. All the other fish appear to be doing well
What could impact all of these fish?

Starting with the mollys, they were lyretail, and the dead ones i noticed alive with their tales gone, at the bottom of the tank rolled onto their backs. They looked dead but tapping the tank near tyem and they would quickly swim off, but 24hrs after that totally dead. At first it was only the spotted mollys, but more than that now.

The guppy was an older fish we found him floating at the top of the tank

The ill beta is a female, only remaining beta in the tank the other female beta died and cannot be located. Its eyes appear cloudy, it is lethargic sinks to the bottom in odd positions, but is visibly distressed as it appears to catch its energy, freak out and swim to the top of the tank and try escape. We tried seperating it in a jar with treated salted water but this seemed to stress it more so we let it back into the tank.

Using liquid drop tests nitrates and ammonia levels are either at, or very near zero, water temp is 22-24deg celcius, PH is 7.2-7.4

No water changes since death began, but prior regular vacuuming of the gravel and water changes. Pump filters cleaned out like a month ago, tank topped up with a 25% change out maybe a week prior, stress coat, melafix and aquarium salt at that time

Food hasnt changed, a combination of blood worm, flakes pellets and dried shrimp depending on the day of the week, they seem to leave nothing. Big filter running non stop, 2x bubblers at each end. The only change we made is adding a 2nd heater to the other end now that its winter and the weather is getting cold, but the tank temp is consistent.
We also added pond mister a couple weeks back, which today i turned off just incase it has anything to do with it

It seems more like we introduced a disease with the new mollys we brought as the 3 spotted ones that died first all came from the same tank in the fish store but, what could affect all these fish that we should look out for?

My partner is a qualified but out of practice marine biologist. Shes a vet too so she should know, but here i am online coz she has no clue, haha.

Help
 
Seasoldier
  • #2
Hi, did you quarantine the new fish before adding them? did you acclimate them before adding them?
 
Rose of Sharon
  • #3
These are just guesses....if it isn't fish aggression....

I know that there have been strains of iridovirus found in other fish besides gouramis, and that seems to kill very quickly.

The only other thing that I can think of is a form of mycobacterium, maybe...

Very mysterious that it came from the Mollys.
 
mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Hi, did you quarantine the new fish before adding them? did you acclimate them before adding them?
We brought them home, let the bags sit in the water to match temperatures, opened the bags and let the bags slowly sink into the tank so they could come out at their leisure. We only have 1 tank none of them were quarantined prior
These are just guesses....if it isn't fish aggression....

I know that there have been strains of iridovirus found in other fish besides gouramis, and that seems to kill very quickly.

The only other thing that I can think of is a form of mycobacterium, maybe...

Very mysterious that it came from the Mollys.
The silver dollars have been aggressive **** with smaller or more placid fish, but not with the larger fish like the mollys. I say aggressive buy ive never actually seen them eating any other fish, just being "annoying" and stealling whole.blocks of bloodworm to themself. It certainly looked like the tails had been eaten off but ive not whitnessed any hint of aggression toward them.

We did have gouramis months prior but none of them survived, and my partner noted they were notoriously susceptible to some kind of virus, so we didnt get any more, but ill do some more research on this thankyou

Edit - upon your suggestion of possible iridovirus i took to google and first result tells me about lymphocytis, and one of the currently healthy seeming mollys appears to have this issue. I just thought he had some kind of genetic growths but it certainly looks like this so i guess i should seperste that one out?
Would it follow that non visibly impacted tankmates could suffer negative impacts as a result of the same thing?
Update: still dying, we have 3x more dead thismorning, different types, 1x guppy, a female beta and one something else that i cant recall what it is. The darker one was a solid blue/black/green all the way through but yesterday we noticed he was missing alot of colour but otherwise appeared to swim happily, thismorning eyes fogged over and floating attop the tank front half basically white/grey but no signts of physical harm to that one or beta


The beta was showing signs of distress yesterday and had foggy eyes and thismorning dead at bottom of tank

Guppy floating attop the tank looks mangled

No sign of any fish harming eachother amongst the living

Not even sure what to seperate out now as theres too many dying species, weather i should change out watter or if thats going to be more stressfull?
 

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mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Additional info: all the remaining fishmates at the shop we bought them from are alive and happy and well, so it seems isnt anything we introduced from there on the last purchase, but that leaves me at a total loss as to what else it may be. Most of the new fish now died, and now a bunch if the existing hardy fish too.

Retested nitrates/nitrites/ammonium/ph and all still seemed bang on targed, as did temp, as a precautionary measure today we drained 60% of the tank & replaced with new water, used an aquarium antibiotic and stress coat after top up, turned the heaters up a little more to target 26/27deg celcius

My partner has daken a few dead fish to work to take scrapings and check for bacteria and parasites under the microscope, but shes deffiniteley out if practice on the marine boplogy side having done her degree some 10yrs back and never practiced in any major way since, so if theres any good resources anyone knows of i can point her to for these types of fish and typical diseases may help save the rest of the tank.

My only other theory is the airbnb peeps we had that rented our home for 1 day did something, but i hope not, they were a traveling family and bareley spoke english so i cant even ask, but that was almost 3 days before we added any new fish, and there wasnt any immediate signs in the days prior so, unlikeley
 
MacZ
  • #6
So you added livebearers without quarantining. The fish of that group are among the massproduced species, the trade and breeders have to subject them to high doses of meds to keep infections down and their profit up. Clear case to me. I see no mystery here.

What exactly it was is almost impossible to tell in hindsight without investing in a thorough lab analysis. That's what a veterinarian would order.
Very likely just a bacterium your fish have no immunity to. The phenomenon often seen and described is, that either healthy newly introduced fish die off quickly as they are stressed and new to the tank which gives the bacteria an entry point. The other way round new fish might introduce a strain of aggressive and virulent bacteria that kill off all fish in a short time.
It doesn't have to be something actually quite rare like fish-TB. Iridovirus would also not whipe out a whole tank of non-labyrinth fish. People overreact and these diseases are named as culprits much too often.

Frankly, it sounds like generally bad holding conditions and a species selection hobbyists have long since dubbed "fish soup". Even though these fish don't kill each other, it is almost impossible to give all of the species you list above the conditions they need in the same tank.

The state of the dead fish is also easily to explain: Pretty much all your fish are known to go for carrion. And that usually is a perfect way to promote diseases and parasites.

As you say correctly, a degree in marine biology doesn't make one an expert on freshwater fish and diseases and aquarium systems, practicing in the field or not.
I have a friend who is a practicing marine biologist, he freely admits that he has no idea of freshwater ecosystems. I also know a fish expert who has no idea of how to operate a fish tank. On the other hand there are thousands of hobbyists with no idea of the biology of the fish and hence millions of fish dying due to clueless aquarists.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, I've come to a point where I stopped sugarcoating it. Sometimes people have to be shaken up before things can change.

Instead of going on speculating (and blaming your recent guests) I'd fill out the emergency template and post some pictures of the whole tank. That should cover all information left out but important and not influence anyone to move on a wrong track.

Sorry for the rant, cases like this hurt my brain.
 
mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
So you added livebearers without quarantining. The fish of that group are among the massproduced species, the trade and breeders have to subject them to high doses of meds to keep infections down and their profit up. Clear case to me. I see no mystery here.

What exactly it was is almost impossible to tell in hindsight without investing in a thorough lab analysis. That's what a veterinarian would order.
Very likely just a bacterium your fish have no immunity to. The phenomenon often seen and described is, that either healthy newly introduced fish die off quickly as they are stressed and new to the tank which gives the bacteria an entry point. The other way round new fish might introduce a strain of aggressive and virulent bacteria that kill off all fish in a short time.
It doesn't have to be something actually quite rare like fish-TB. Iridovirus would also not whipe out a whole tank of non-labyrinth fish. People overreact and these diseases are named as culprits much too often.

Frankly, it sounds like generally bad holding conditions and a species selection hobbyists have long since dubbed "fish soup". Even though these fish don't kill each other, it is almost impossible to give all of the species you list above the conditions they need in the same tank.

The state of the dead fish is also easily to explain: Pretty much all your fish are known to go for carrion. And that usually is a perfect way to promote diseases and parasites.

As you say correctly, a degree in marine biology doesn't make one an expert on freshwater fish and diseases and aquarium systems, practicing in the field or not.
I have a friend who is a practicing marine biologist, he freely admits that he has no idea of freshwater ecosystems. I also know a fish expert who has no idea of how to operate a fish tank. On the other hand there are thousands of hobbyists with no idea of the biology of the fish and hence millions of fish dying due to clueless aquarists.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, I've come to a point where I stopped sugarcoating it. Sometimes people have to be shaken up before things can change.

Instead of going on speculating (and blaming your recent guests) I'd fill out the emergency template and post some pictures of the whole tank. That should cover all information left out but important and not influence anyone to move on a wrong track.

Sorry for the rant, cases like this hurt my brain.
Wasnt harsh at all, 100% of my existing knowledge (very little) is mereley from what others have advised, who are almost certainly also not experts and as such I perpetuate any common errors that are popular to make until somwone tells us better. Hence why I'm here:) to hopefully find those who do know better!, I shall grab some whole tank snaps as soon as im home

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 600L
How long has the tank been running? 8 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes, 2x
What is the water temperature? 24 degrees C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
Was 7 Mollys, now 2 lyretails that still appear healthy,
5 guppies down to 2x,
2x female betas down to zero,
30 neons , seem healthy
5 angels, seem healthy,
3 silver dollars, seem healyhy
5 tigerbarbs, new, appear healthy,
1 blue ram appears healthy,
2 spiney eels, we can never find them but i just saw at least 1
1 brittle nose, has seemed to be more active during death week, prior just sat under heater, fresh water flounder, theres a couple small snails and live plants in the tank too that get eatem consistently by the fish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once a month
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Stress coat, and a few tablespoons of aquarium salt
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Subsrrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
The pump is on constantly cycling
What do you use to test the water? Liquid tests
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0 or very close
Nitrite:0 or very close
Nitrate:0 or very close
pH:7.4

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Daily
How much do you feed your fish? A few pinches of flakes one day 3-5 frozen cubes of bloodworm every 2-3 times a week, a few pinches of pellwts in between and dried shrimp twice a week. Different fiod different days
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Various, tetra, api, nutrafin
Do you feed frozen? Yes bloodworm
Do you feed freeze-dried foods? Yes flakes, shrimp and pellets

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Some under 1 week some since tank was new
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 1 week
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? - lathargic, cloudy eyes, deshevalled appearance, losing folour ultimateley dead
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Added antibiotic today
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Yes stopped moving, sitting on bottom for periods dead looking some sideways or upside downthen freaking out trying to jump out of water

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
as above
 

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MacZ
  • #8
Good, I like to keep it to the relevant stuff.
Mollys, guppies, was 2x female betas, neons angels, silver dollars, tigerbarbs, blue ram, spiney eels, brittle nose, fresh water flounder
So the killifish (the fish on the upper right in your picture) are extinct in that tank now? I am getting the feeling the IDs of all the fish might not be correct. The combination of species is less than optimal. But I said so before.
Also: numbers please!
Does it have a filter? Yes
What type/model, size and type of filter media?
Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once a montb
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Stress coat
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Subsrrate
More waterchanges. 50% every two weeks should be minimum at that tank size. But I don't know the stocking density yet (hence my question about the numbers of fish and pictures), so it might be warranted to do this weekly.
*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
The pump is on constantly cycling
Cycling means establishing the microorganisms that metabolize nitrogen compounds and other biological waste in the filter media, the substrate and pretty much all surfaces i the tank. It has nothing to do with a pump running.
What do you use to test the water? Liquid tests
Good.
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:7.4
0 for Nitrates is possible, if you do indeed have good aquaponics running. What plants do you grow on the tank?
Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Daily
How much do you feed your fish? A frw pinches and 3 frozen cubes
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Various
Do you feed frozen? Yes bloodworm
Do you feed freeze-dried foods? Yes flajes and pellets
You may actually be underfeeding.
Bloodworms are junkfood for fish. Unhealthy ratios of protein to fats, also often contaminated from catastrophic production conditions. You might actually be introducing things that way. Switch to Artemia, white mosquito larvae and other less controversial frozen foods. And thaw and rinse it before feeding.
I assume the flake food contains mostly grains and fish meal. If so: Replace with granulate and look for a brand that uses as little grains and fish meal as possible.
Bad food makes for unhealthy fish.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Added antibiotic todayIn a few words, can you explain the symptoms? - lathargic, cloudy eyes, deshevalled appearance, losing folour ultimateley dead
Very generic symptoms. Could be anything, but the circumstances point to bacteria.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Added antibiotic today
Which exactly? As long as you don't know at least the type of bacteria that might backfire as these meds are harsh on the inner organs of the animals.
You should at least know whether the bacteria are gram-positive or gram-negative. Otherwise the meds do either nothing or might even make it worse by taking the competition from the troublemaking bacteria.
Additionally: If you grow crops via aquaponics you made them unsafe to consume. The plants accumulate them in their tissue.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Yes stopped moving, sitting on bottom for periods dead looking some sideways or upside downthen freaking out trying to jump out of water
That is just the typical behaviour of a dying fish. You do have opportunistic feeders that go for the weak ones.

Overall:
You started out with the handicap of lacking knowledge which I do not put on you. But you will have to deal with the consequences now.
First you have to get the disease under control.
I'd sort out the stocking, probably even going as far as putting down or rehoming all smaller species. In the light of the disease present I'd actually recommend putting them down, as giving away the disease with the fish is just making it somebody elses problem and not cool at all.
Second is tech and maintenance, but that needs more info I asked for above.
Third point to deal with: Food, water, plants and decoration.

Waiting for pictures and the other questions to be answered now.
 
mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
Good, I like to keep it to the relevant stuff.

So the killifish (the fish on the upper right in your picture) are extinct in that tank now? I am getting the feeling the IDs of all the fish might not be correct. The combination of species is less than optimal. But I said so before.
Also: numbers please!

What type/model, size and type of filter media?

More waterchanges. 50% every two weeks should be minimum at that tank size. But I don't know the stocking density yet (hence my question about the numbers of fish and pictures), so it might be warranted to do this weekly.

Cycling means establishing the microorganisms that metabolize nitrogen compounds and other biological waste in the filter media, the substrate and pretty much all surfaces i the tank. It has nothing to do with a pump running.

Good.

0 for Nitrates is possible, if you do indeed have good aquaponics running. What plants do you grow on the tank?

You may actually be underfeeding.
Bloodworms are junkfood for fish. Unhealthy ratios of protein to fats, also often contaminated from catastrophic production conditions. You might actually be introducing things that way. Switch to Artemia, white mosquito larvae and other less controversial frozen foods. And thaw and rinse it before feeding.
I assume the flake food contains mostly grains and fish meal. If so: Replace with granulate and look for a brand that uses as little grains and fish meal as possible.
Bad food makes for unhealthy fish.

Very generic symptoms. Could be anything, but the circumstances point to bacteria.

Which exactly? As long as you don't know at least the type of bacteria that might backfire as these meds are harsh on the inner organs of the animals.
You should at least know whether the bacteria are gram-positive or gram-negative. Otherwise the meds do either nothing or might even make it worse by taking the competition from the troublemaking bacteria.
Additionally: If you grow crops via aquaponics you made them unsafe to consume. The plants accumulate them in their tissue.

That is just the typical behaviour of a dying fish. You do have opportunistic feeders that go for the weak ones.

Overall:
You started out with the handicap of lacking knowledge which I do not put on you. But you will have to deal with the consequences now.
First you have to get the disease under control.
I'd sort out the stocking, probably even going as far as putting down or rehoming all smaller species. In the light of the disease present I'd actually recommend putting them down, as giving away the disease with the fish is just making it somebody elses problem and not cool at all.
Second is tech and maintenance, but that needs more info I asked for above.
Third point to deal with: Food, water, plants and decoration.

Waiting for pictures and the other questions to be answered now.
Sorry, just got home and updated numbers (at least what there was last week), its less now after various deaths and added pics.
Yes i think that was a killifish, thats the one i didnt know what it was but googles pics seem acurate for that.. we only had one, we had him.for maybe 5 months but now extinct.

Filter is 2400L/H i will doublecheck with my partner what the medium is, i know we removed the carbon filter because of the aquaponics needing nutrients when we first set up the tank, but after going through the filter, it pumps into herb pots above growing hydro in hydrotons (corriander/basil/parsley/tomatos/oregano) and drains down from those pots back into the tank

Sorry, i missunderstood what you meant by cycling, i thought you were talking about the water doing a full cycle thru the filter, but yes, my partner established that when we got the tank being sure to use existing water with krganisms, but are you saying theres something else I should be doing each time before adding new fish to the existing?

Will make the switch on food types and increase feed quantity. I thought the bloodworm was the good food, so, duly noted thankyou!

I just got to read brands on treatments melafix, and stress coat are API. Store said today melafix is strong so to only use half reccomended dose after changing out water, so we've done that today. I see she has pimafix in tbe cupboard too, but i dont think we used that and the bottle seems full.

We have used aqua one ph down in the past when plants were dying, but not for months
Seachem prime conditioner is in the cupboard too though i dont think thats been used any time in months at least and we have used LCA all in one premium plant nutrients for the hydro from liverpoolcreekaquariums dot com

As for the herb crops, i hadnt even considered that, weve been eating them and havent died yet!!! But duly noted!!!

When you mention moving the smaller species, do you mean the neons (which seem to be doing fine) or everything other than the angels/silver dollars which are the biggest?

Were going to make some makeshift ponds out of tubs for quarantining until we work out what is going on
 
MacZ
  • #10
Filter is 2400L/H i will doublecheck with my partner what the medium is, i know we removed the carbon filter because of the aquaponics needing nutrients when we first set up the tank, but after going through the filter, it pumps into herb pots above growing hydro in hydrotons (corriander/basil/parsley/tomatos/oregano) and drains down from those pots back into the tank
Ok, I expected more than those few plants. To have positive impact on water quality you would need much more plant mass.
Sorry, i missunderstood what you meant by cycling, i thought you were talking about the water doing a full cycle thru the filter, but yes, my partner established that when we got the tank being sure to use existing water with krganisms, but are you saying theres something else I should be doing each time before adding new fish to the existing?
But the beneficial microorganisms barely live in the water, they colonise surfaces, which is why we use sponges, filterfloss and/or biomedia for the filters. What is inside the filter?
Will make the switch on food types and increase feed quantity. I thought the bloodworm was the good food, so, duly noted thankyou!
Switch the types, the amounts now are sufficient.
I just got to read brands on treatments melafix, and stress coat are API. Store said today melafix is strong so to only use half reccomended dose after changing out water, so we've done that today. I see she has pimafix in tbe cupboard too, but i dont think we used that and the bottle seems full.
Melafix and pimafix are useless stuff. And not even real antibiotics. Which is good, because that would just make it worse if you dosed to little. And generally never use any meds without a diagnosis. Stress coat is just glorified de-chlorinator with added Aloe vera which does exactly nothing for the fish. Only the de-chlorination is necessary if your tapwater is chlorinated.
We have used aqua one ph down in the past when plants were dying, but not for months
Seachem prime conditioner is in the cupboard too though i dont think thats been used any time in months at least and we have used LCA all in one premium plant nutrients for the hydro from liverpoolcreekaquariums dot com
Toss the pH-down, it's nothing but diluted hydrochloric acid. You ought to read up on the correlation of pH and KH, then you will soon realize the stuff is a menace. Prime is just another de-chlorinator, basically same thing as stress guard sans the Aloe.
I don't know the fertilizer but I would look up the ingredients in your place. Good you stopped using it.
As for the herb crops, i hadnt even considered that, weve been eating them and havent died yet!!! But duly noted!!!
Not saying they become deadly poisonous, but it's for sure not healthy to ingest antibiotics when not sick. You only grow multiresistant pathogens that way.
When you mention moving the smaller species, do you mean the neons (which seem to be doing fine) or everything other than the angels/silver dollars which are the biggest?
I mean everything besides the angels, the silver dollars, the bristlenose and the eels. Or the other way round. Choose between the bigger or smaller species.
Also flounders NEED sand. I'm astonished it is still alive with that substrate.
Speaking of which... Sure, there is the factor of taste, but when it comes to this kind of "substrate" (sorry, to me it's just some marbles and plastic coated gravel and it doesn't even fulfill most of the functions of substrate)
The neons are pretty pale, a sign of stress. Which I find understandable, as there are enough fish in there that could potentially eat them.

I mean... it's not your fault originally, but I strongly advise to look up reliable info on your animals and basically redo the tank. It is by no means species appropriate for any of the species you keep in there and lack of knowledge is not an excuse after you learn how much went wrong.
I can also tell you right now: If you don't sort out the issues of the tank in general, you can chugg in as much and as many meds as you like the problems will not stopp unless the fish have an appropriate and stress free environment.

We have plenty of helpful and knowledgable people here, that will gladly help with advise.
 
mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
The filter media is matrix, bioballs, and sponge
 
MacZ
  • #12
Seasoldier
  • #13
I don't mean this to be offensive you have the potential for a fantastic tank set up there but at the moment it's what I term a 'kiddies tank' by that I mean multi-coloured stones for substrate, fairy castle hardscape & very little natural elements like aquatic plants & natural substrate. Fish fare much better in a tank which provides as much natural aquascape materials as possible & as close to their natural environment as possible so I'd be looking at a sand or sand & rounded smooth pebble substrate, bogwood pieces, plenty of plants to break up sight lines for the fish & provide hiding spots & maybe some rockery to provide caves again as hiding places if the fish is feeling stressed & to attach plants to. I know it's each to their own & your tank is your tank & has to be right for you but that beauty you have there could be so much more.
 
MacZ
  • #14
I fully concur with you.
 
mrcashback
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
The castle came with the tank deffiniteley not my personal choice, but we left it in till we found some alternate options that we liked in liue of some larger heavy stones i was worried might crack the tank if dislodged (the tank already had a repair by old owner caused by exactly this)
Same deal with The plastic log in the center, but the other logs are driftwood. The driftwood pieces do actually have plants growing on them that were leafy and plush but theres no leaves anymore on anything. Getting the plants growing, both in tank and the aquaponics has been troublesome, even duckweed that my partner couldnt get rid of in her old tank which completeley covered the surface when we set the tank up, has all dissapeared in this tank. The plant peeps keep telling us we need a lower ph, which is no good for the fish. They also tell us we need more nutrients, less water changes, and more fish too to feed the plants, so, the opposite of the instructions here to keep the fish well, and the plants have suffered trying to focus on fish friendly water first.

The substrate is all gravel and the blue is polished stones or some kind of crystal or glass pebbles, which was to match the colour scheem of the room. Ive actually been trying to target fish that are blue/white/black too, to match this colour scheem. As far as the lack of sand goes though, the white pebbles are again what came with the tank so i tried to p8ck coloured pebbles of similar size, and fish stores all said fine sand was unnecessary for these type of fish, and that these fish all play nice together, so, i guess victim of bad advice on that front?

But noted; finer substrate, more plants, more hiding spots, more water changes more regularly, less big fish if we want small/medium fish to live, less bloodworm, and work out **** kind of bacterial issue we currently have before we medicate. Im told the dead fish are going to a fish pathologist now during the week... i didnt even know that was a thing

Theres no new dead fish since thismorning, and the remaining fish seem happy.
I know you noted the neons looked dull, but im wondering if that may just be smeared tank or bad camera/lighting, to my novice eye they look bright and brilliant, as colourful as any ive ever seen in the stores, but, thats just me.
I also dont think weve ever lost a single neon, they all appear to be there, so whetever it is isnt impacting that entire species.
 
MacZ
  • #16
i guess victim of bad advice on that front?
On many, yes. That's why I am not accusing you of bad husbandry, especially as you are willing to learn and do better for your animals sake. :)

But noted; finer substrate, more plants, more hiding spots, more water changes more regularly, less big fish if we want small/medium fish to live, less bloodworm, and work out **** kind of bacterial issue we currently have before we medicate. Im told the dead fish are going to a fish pathologist now during the week... i didnt even know that was a thing
So far correct. You should be able to make good progress with all this. And after that you can go on with fine tuning.
 

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