Microfauna in fish tanks, good or bad?

Not sure where to post this.

So I stumbled upon this and have no idea what it is. Looks like small insects which I heard will consume fish poop. Any one care to give correct info? Do I want it in my tank? where do I get it from? Is it true it will eat fish poop? Health hazard for my fish, plants, or for me?

 

Can you post the link? Nothing eats fish poop as far as I'm aware of. You have to do water changes to remove it.

 

Can you post the link? Nothing eats fish poop as far as I'm aware of. You have to do water changes to remove it.

The Tiny Custodians that Will Remove Your Exotic Pet Waste for You

 

Isopods don't live underwater. That article says terrium or reptile habitat. Bacteria dies break down fish poop but it's still a good idea to vacuum and do weekly water changes

 

Benificial bacteria in the substrate consume fish poop. Micro fauna is a vital part of every healthy aquarium environment. There are tiny predatory insects, parasitic worms & crustaceans that sometimes invade a tank that are detrimental. Regular tank maintenance usually keep those pest in check.

 

Isopods don't live underwater. That article says terrium or reptile habitat. Bacteria dies break down fish poop but it's still a good idea to vacuum and do weekly water changes

A YouTuber claims he has a 10 year old tank that he never cleaned albeit he says for this to work you need at least 3 inch of substrate.

Benificial bacteria in the substrate consume fish poop. Micro fauna is a vital part of every healthy aquarium environment. There are tiny predatory insects, parasitic worms & crustaceans that sometimes invade a tank that are detrimental. Regular tank maintenance usually keep those pest in check.

Are you saying I can get away without cleaning my substrate from fish poop? just let it sit there? where did the micro fauna come int my tank from? if there is any at all?

 

True. Well if you want to have an aquarium like his with tons of plants and hardly any fish go for it. But that's not my way of doing things I actually find it gross. I have bare bottom guppy tanks and the thought of creatures living breeding and dying/rotting in substrate gross me out
Th

A YouTuber claims he has a 10 year old tank that he never cleaned albeit he says for this to work you need at least 3 inch of substrate.


Are you saying I can get away without cleaning my substrate from fish poop? just let it sit there? where did the micro fauna come int my tank from? if there is any at all?

They also carry diseases. You can't "get away" with never changing the water. You will have sick fish.

 

Well if you want to have an aquarium like his with tons of plants and hardly any fish go for it. But that's not my way of doing things I actually find it gross. I have bare bottom guppy tanks and the thought of creatures living breeding and dying/rotting in substrate gross me out

You must live in an apartment without a garden .

I assume your statement "They also carry diseases." is your assumption. Or can you elaborate a bit as I'm eager to learn more.

 

True. Well if you want to have an aquarium like his with tons of plants and hardly any fish go for it. But that's not my way of doing things I actually find it gross. I have bare bottom guppy tanks and the thought of creatures living breeding and dying/rotting in substrate gross me out
Th

They also carry diseases. You can't "get away" with never changing the water. You will have sick fish.

What diseases do plants carry?

 

You must live in an apartment without a garden .

I assume your statement "They also carry diseases." is your assumption. Or can you elaborate a bit as I'm eager to learn more.

I live in a house and don't appreciate your passive aggressive response. Any Literature to support my "assumptions" ?? Plenty of literature out there on the internet that substrate "cleaners" like worms and snails and other crustaceans are actually the intermediate host to various parasites and pathogens that infected tropical fish. Whirling disease and neon tetra disease use them to complete their life cycle. So does capallaria nematodes (they are sort of like callamanus worms in case your wondering)

 

I live in a house and don't appreciate your passive aggressive response. Any Literature to support my "assumptions" ?? Plenty of literature out there on the internet that substrate "cleaners" like worms and snails and other crustaceans are actually the intermediate host to various parasites and pathogens that infected tropical fish. Whirling disease and neon tetra disease use them to complete their life cycle. So does capallaria nematodes (they are sort of like callamanus worms in case your wondering)

Sorry to have offended you with my silly joke. And you are correct; invertebrates play a key role in the life cycle of many parasitic diseases. In nature and in our tanks.

But it should not pose much of a problem most of the time, otherwise we would not have any fish. Or humans.

Pathogens are typically in subacute state until environmental stress for the host kicks in. Keeping tanks at breeding temperatures year round, having no clue of social ecology, feeding frozen bloodworms because the fish enjoy eating it, and yes, too high concentrations of pathogens, etc. Our fish are exposed to plenty of stressors in the average tank.

Deworming (imported) fish and sucking up pooped nematodes from a bare bottom tank, and continue to suck up dirt and poop out of the tank, is one way to approach things. Personally, I don't like the work and neither do I enjoy watching bare tanks. But that's me.

However, warning against microfauna for being disease carriers and relating this to water changes and sick fish, begs for explanation.

For instance, water changes by itself doesn't reduce that much disease carriers (or better expressed: leaves a lot of disease carriers in); it's simple math. On the other hand, having crystal clear water to begin with, is very important, as cloudy water (typically) indicates too much bacteria in the water column, which is one of the environmental stressors.

But this is not the exclusive territory of clean, bare tanks with high frequent water changes. Crystal clear water can just as easily be obtained in tanks that embrace both the growth and decaying parts of life. As a matter of fact, this is one of the benefits "nature tanks" have over clean and bare tanks: the decaying part keeps fishes' immune systems in shape.

So to the OP: it is not bad by definition for fish to consume "small insects". For many fish in our hobby, this is actually their main food in the wild, because there isn't that much fabricated stuff floating around to enjoy. Pity those wild fish.

Also the more complex your tank, including "dirty" substrates and abundance of plants, the more diverse your microbe community will be (that feast on the decaying part of life), the more resilient your tank becomes, the more "small insects" can populate your tank, the more free food your fish will have. Just keep the tank heavily understocked with fish for all this to work.

 

diamonfingers my two tanks, a 65 gal. (running 24 years) & 120 gal. (running 7 years) both have at least 4 inches deep small grain gravel substrate.
Although I perform a 30% - 50% weekly water change, I don't gravel vac. Haven't done so for many years.
Aerobic BB exists on the substrate surface. Anaerobic BB exists deep into the substrate.
These tiny members of the micro fauna community constantly consume waste, resulting in nitrates <20 ppm. My tanks would be considered heavily stocked. The fish remain healthy & are long lived.

 

True. Well if you want to have an aquarium like his with tons of plants and hardly any fish go for it. But that's not my way of doing things I actually find it gross. I have bare bottom guppy tanks and the thought of creatures living breeding and dying/rotting in substrate gross me out
Th

They also carry diseases. You can't "get away" with never changing the water. You will have sick fish.

Just to be clear he did not say he never made water change, he said he never cleaned the tank.

So to the OP: it is not bad by definition for fish to consume "small insects". For many fish in our hobby, this is actually their main food in the wild, because there isn't that much fabricated stuff floating around to enjoy. Pity those wild fish.

Also the more complex your tank, including "dirty" substrates and abundance of plants, the more diverse your microbe community will be (that feast on the decaying part of life), the more resilient your tank becomes, the more "small insects" can populate your tank, the more free food your fish will have. Just keep the tank heavily understocked with fish for all this to work.

-Where will the small insects come from in my tank?

-Why should I keep my tank understocked? I understand more fish will need more oxygen, water, filtration, and of course bigger bioload but I am specifically asking about the small insects. If they will "neutralise" fish poop, then logic says they are a reason to bring more fish in, correct?

diamonfingers my two tanks, a 65 gal. (running 24 years) & 120 gal. (running 7 years) both have at least 4 inches deep small grain gravel substrate.
Although I perform a 30% - 50% weekly water change, I don't gravel vac. Haven't done so for many years.
Aerobic BB exists on the substrate surface. Anaerobic BB exists deep into the substrate.
These tiny members of the micro fauna community constantly consume waste, resulting in nitrates <20 ppm. My tanks would be considered heavily stocked. The fish remain healthy & are long lived.

nice to here from real life tests and that 24 years one...wow. Do you do any cleaning? is your water clear?

I guess he is right although many say he is crazy about his claims. I think Micro fauna is different from bacteria, as the micro fauna are considered insects and not bacteria invisible to the naked eye like beneficial bacteria living in the bio media.

 

The water stays clear. Both tanks are filtered by 2x Marineland Emperor 400 power filters.
Just have to do the weekly water change & brush off the alge from the front glass.

 

I've watched him too. He has sone good points. At the end of the day its just a hobby we all live and learn and share knowledge but there is no right or wrong way. Many people go for his way if doing stuff or Diana walstad method and enjoy the scenery. I breed guppies in bare bottom tanks with nothing in them but fish and a filter. As long as we are having fun that's all that matters

 

Just to be clear he did not say he never made water change, he said he never cleaned the tank.

-Where will the small insects come from in my tank?

-Why should I keep my tank understocked? I understand more fish will need more oxygen, water, filtration, and of course bigger bioload but I am specifically asking about the small insects. If they will "neutralise" fish poop, then logic says they are a reason to bring more fish in, correct?

nice to here from real life tests and that 24 years one...wow. Do you do any cleaning? is your water clear?

I guess he is right although many say he is crazy about his claims. I think Micro fauna is different from bacteria, as the micro fauna are considered insects and not bacteria invisible to the naked eye like beneficial bacteria living in the bio media.

The "small insects" are partly crustaceans and enter your tank mainly via plants. They feed off smaller infusoria, algae and biofilm (microbes).

Microbes take care of organic decomposition. Organic decomposition includes ammonia oxidation, but this represents only a tiny fraction. Decomposition also involves leaching, humification and mineralization.

Humification implies the conversion of dead organic matter converted to humic (organic) substances and benefit the metabolism and immune system of fish and invertebrates.

Microbes are bacteria and archaea. These represent two of the three major classes of life. The third is eukaryota and includes plants, fungi and animals (fauna). When hobbyist refer to "beneficial bacteria", they refer to certain species (well, a million different ones) found amongst bacteria and archaea.

The crustaceans don't take care of the fish poop. Microbes do. If the substrate is complex, plants are abundant, sufficient oxygen in substrate (thanks to plant roots), then populations of crustaceans will appear.

Also, fish poop is one part or organic decomposition. Plant matter constitutes a major source also.

If you have a lot of fish, the crustaceans will simply be consumed. Unless you feed your fish (too much); then chances are they will ignore small critters. Kids prefer chocolate and ice cream over natural products too...

If you understock with fish, you can even reach a point you no longer need to feed, or like me, a few times a week.

 

I've watched the guy too. He has sone good points. At the end of the day its just a hobby we all live and learn and share knowledge but there is no right or wrong way. Many people go for his way if doing stuff or Diana walstad method and enjoy the scenery. I breed guppies in bare bottom tanks with nothing in them but fish and a filter. As long as we are having fun that's all that matters

I kind of like to decorate the tank , looks better and the fish feel some thing more natural (I guess) where it can interact and swim around instead of just a plain water box.

The "small insects" are partly crustaceans and enter your tank mainly via plants. They feed off smaller infusoria, algae and biofilm (microbes).

Microbes take care of organic decomposition. Organic decomposition includes ammonia oxidation, but this represents only a tiny fraction. Decomposition also involves leaching, humification and mineralization.

Humification implies the conversion of dead organic matter converted to humic (organic) substances and benefit the metabolism and immune system of fish and invertebrates.

Microbes are bacteria and archaea. These represent two of the three major classes of life. The third is eukaryota and includes plants, fungi and animals (fauna). When hobbyist refer to "beneficial bacteria", they refer to certain species (well, a million different ones) found amongst bacteria and archaea.

The crustaceans don't take care of the fish poop. Microbes do. If the substrate is complex, plants are abundant, sufficient oxygen in substrate (thanks to plant roots), then populations of crustaceans will appear.

Also, fish poop is one part or organic decomposition. Plant matter constitutes a major source also.

If you have a lot of fish, the crustaceans will simply be consumed. Unless you feed your fish (too much); then chances are they will ignore small critters. Kids prefer chocolate and ice cream over natural products too...

If you understock with fish, you can even reach a point you no longer need to feed, or like me, a few times a week.

thanks, what do you mean the substrate is complex?

What will happen to fish poop in the tank if I never clean it?

 

Complex substrate = "patches" of different oxygen en nutrient concentrations, which happens automatically due to plant roots and organic waste. These differences will facilitate different microbe species. The more biodiversity, the more resilient your tank will be.

Organic waste like poop, decaying plant parts, or dead animals, find their way in the sand substrate. Initially, when you start, it will lay on top of the sand. Over time (not years, but months), it will break down (fragment, leach, catabolise) and find its way into the substrate. Organic and inorganic compounds in the substrate move in all directions.

I recommend neocaridina shrimp in planted tanks as they fragment debris very quickly. Especially "white pearls aka snowballs" as they blend in nicely (and "don't steal away color from fish").

So what happens to poop?

Can you spot fish poop?



Can you spot fish (and "small insects")?



Can you spot shrimps (and "small insects")?

 

Complex substrate = "patches" of different oxygen en nutrient concentrations, which happens automatically due to plant roots and organic waste. These differences will facilitate different microbe species. The more biodiversity, the more resilient your tank will be.

Organic waste like poop, decaying plant parts, or dead animals, find their way in the sand substrate. Initially, when you start, it will lay on top of the sand. Over time (not years, but months), it will break down (fragment, leach, catabolise) and find its way into the substrate. Organic and inorganic compounds in the substrate move in all directions.

I recommend neocaridina shrimp in planted tanks as they fragment debris very quickly. Especially "white pearls aka snowballs" as they blend in nicely (and "don't steal away color from fish").

So what happens to poop?

Can you spot fish poop?
View attachment 859780

Can you spot fish (and "small insects")?
View attachment 859783

Can you spot shrimps (and "small insects")?
View attachment 859784

If I understand you correctly, I should not clean my substrate from any fish poop or decaying organic material? because researching fish keeping I found out these things "rot" and release ammonia.

 

In nature things rot and release ammonia. Nature seemed to be doing pretty well, prior to the industrial revolution.

Of course a small indoors tanks is a little different. A little rot is fine. Even preferred. Especially is you have abundant plants in the tank that show growth. What is there to worry?

But if your plants are not doing so well and you have too many leaves in decay, I would take them out. Judging this, comes with experience I guess. In case of doubt, take out the leaves.

But most importantly, don't clean the substrate. And make sure oxygen levels in your substrate don't drop too much. This can be easily achieved with plant root density.

This helps with decomposition (including ammonia oxidation, although plants will happily consume the leached ammonia).

 

But most importantly, don't clean the substrate. And make sure oxygen levels in your substrate don't drop too much. This can be easily achieved with plant root density.

Thanks very much for the helpful advice. From your statement I believe you follow the method of having thick substrate, but my setup I only have between 0.5-1inch of sand as its unevenly spread. I wonder if that would do the trick?