Mickey Keeps Having Stringy Poo

Discussion in 'Freshwater Beginners' started by PaulaMPi, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    I have treated my Mickey Platy several times over the past several months for stringy poo. I have done General Cure according to directions, every two days, with water changes every fourth day. The first time (back in February) I did 6 doses (three rounds) under direction of friends here, and the most recent time 4 doses (two rounds) several weeks ago. Full disclosure: I have used Kanaplex recently too.

    This most recent time, her poos went from long cotton strings to thick white ones, but haven't gone back to "normal," and now after a couple weeks med-free, they are transparent and cottony again.

    Should I do more General Cure? Or if she didn't respond fully to the last treatment, is it possible I need to switch to a different med?

    10g tank
    Two Platies, one moss ball
    Most recent readings two days ago were
    PH 7.4
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite 0
    Nitrate 5
    KH 4-5 drops
    GH 7 drops (usually closer to 9 drops, added some Replenish after)
    Temp 79*

    I did a water change yesterday and haven't tested levels today yet.
     
  2. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

  3. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    GC has 75mg Praziquantel per packet - how does this PraziPro affect it differently/used differently?
     




  4. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Hmm... not sure. However, on the API site for General Cure it states that it is effective against Hex but does not suggest it is effective against worms. In my experience, white poo indicates 1 of three internal problems: Hex, worms, nematodes or loss of stomach lining. For the first three I wouldn't use General Cure as the medication of choice for these issues. The use of broad-spectrum antibiotics for specific problems are detrimental for your fish in the long run, by promoting disease resistant pathogens.
    For worms I would use Prazi-pro ( not sure of the concentration difference of Praziquantel between this med and General Cure- I just know that after deworming dozens of Discus, it works.)
    For internal nematodes I use Levamisole powder.
    For Hex I use Metro powder.
    Loss of stomach lining often occurs after treatment with antibiotics or due to illness.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    How can you tell if it is loss of stomach lining vs parasites? And is that something that needs to be treated, or just a time thing?

    I am also boiling peas now - I always try that every few days to try to de-constipate the fishies after any gluttonous previous feeds.

    And another thing I've been thinking about is I've been treating the tank each time (the first time, I had a sick fish who wasn't eating). Would it be better to do medicated flakes? I am looking at a site that has both Praziquantel flakes and also Levamisole flakes... better to treat it from the inside out, since these two are still piggies as usual? (Or is that just something the flake sites say to get people to buy their stuff?)
     




  6. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Yes, absolutely! Just make sure not to feed any other feed and for the full course suggested by manufacture.

    White poo is difficult to distinguish... to determine which is which. Often if your fish are still eating heartily and have white poo it indicates worms. If they are turned toward the back of the tank and refusing food this most likely indicates Hex. If the fish is refusing food and :"wasting" this indicates parasitic nematodes. Stomach lining loss is a symptom of many illnesses- it often is a warning their is something going on with your fish and you need to look at different indicators to try distinguish what is wrong. And like I mentioned, it can also occur after bouts with antibiotics. HTH!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  7. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    Excellent info - Thank you so much for the visual behavioral descriptions! That helps a lot.

    I will buy the flakes. You mean no other food at all during that time? No peas/shrimp/etc? Or just to make sure to finish the full course?

    Can you visually tell the difference between the stomach lining vs the parasites? ie cottony = parasites, thick white = lining? Or are they all kind of visually the same? From what I can tell, the poo is the only issue...


    ... but while we are here:
    Anything that jumps out from the pic? They are behaving normally (energy, swimming, eating, no clamped fins).
    [​IMG]

    The only other thing I can think of at the moment is their gills may look slightly more "bubbly" than normal - Mickey's looks slightly open occasionally, as though I can see inside :-/ They don't look extra red though. She did have clamped fins and slight flashing a few weeks ago before the GC. Figured it would help if it was either gill flukes or parasites or both.
    (Gills today)
    [​IMG]

    She also has slight redness on the "bridge" of her nose between her eyes and some darkening above the gills in pic 3 (unless that's just her internal organs ;) ), and redness that has developed over her fins and rear body in the past month (others have advised that is most likely just color changing as she's getting older).
    (Redness/darkening)
    [​IMG]
     
  8. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    How often do you change water in your tank? Vacuum the gravel? Change the mechanical in your filter? Those reddened areas could be ammonia burns and, if so, need to up your water changes. Overall though, they look healthy. Do you have an air-stone in your tank? Whenever you medicate you should use supplemental aeration. I would not feed any other foods when you are treating with medicated food as the fish will always prefer other foods to the medicated food. It may take a day or two to get them to eat this food- until they get hungry enough and aren't offered anything more tasty. But, you will see this tip on the package of the food when you get it. Here is some information on "visual" aspects of poo and determining illness from it.
     
     
  9. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    I do a 50% water change every week (I was doing it closer to every 4 days when I was medicating, and before I was cycled). I vacuum the gravel at water changes too, though I know I haven't been getting super deep into it. I honestly hate the gravel and I am thinking of changing this to a bare-bottom tank, since this is going to be my QT once my 45 is done cycling.

    I do have an airstone, but honestly haven't used it lately - it was knocking one of my ill fish around a couple months ago, and I never put it back in when he died. I will make sure to use it in the future - is that just when treating the tank, or (silly question) any reason to do it when using medicated food?

    As far as ammonia poisoning, the numbers have never really gotten out of hand - usually 0.25-0.5 when cycling, never over 1.0, and I'd been doing Prime and Stability pretty much daily for the last few months.

    In pic one and two, you can kind of see red streaks in her anal fin and caudal fin - I was concerned about septicemia, hence the Kanaplex.

    After giving the pea today, she definitely is having the long cottony poo again. So, the medicated food is the best way to go for the moment then? And should I do Praziquantel or Levamisole, or a combination?

    Thank you so much!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  10. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    If your finding that your nitrates in tank are too high at the end of a week, may need to do twice weekly water changes. I hate gravel too, you are right, it traps debris and waste and is hard to clean. I would suggest a light 3/4 inch depth of pool filter sand if you want a substrate. This is what I have in my discus tank and it is easy to clean with Python. Or bare bottom is even better!

    As far as air-stone- How big is your tank- you don't want to use an air-pump that is too strong for the tank space. I use an air-stone all the time to promote oxygenation in tank. Higher oxygenation in tank is especially important when fish are ill/combating parasites.

    Perfect.
    Did you treat for a full course of Kanaplex? Not sure, but doesn't appear to me to be septicemia. Usually with septicemia fish are quite ill and get off of food. This fish is still eating isn't it?

    Dont mix the two. no. I would do the Prazi flakes first for the full course of treatment recommended on bag. After treatment observe fish for a couple days to see if white poo disappears, If not, then start the Levamisole treatment. Clean water is also very important for recovery and strengthening fishes own immunity against what it is combating- change twice a week while treating.
     
  11. Tiny_Tanganyikans

    Tiny_TanganyikansWell Known MemberMember

    Again. This is totally unnecessary and imo you're causing more harm then good. Stop medicating! If your paranoid about fish poop setting up a QT tank with a 3 $ sponge filter and a 1 $ storage bin would be much more beneficial for your fish, your tank, and your wallet in the long run.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    I have never had an issue with Nitrates... honestly, it took forever to get a nitrate reading, and now I finally have one at the end of a week, but it goes back down to 0 after a water change.

    I have pool filter sand in my 45. Do you think it would be okay to remove just a bit and move it to the 10g? There's not a hard and fast reason for a specific depth of substrate, is there? (I know there is a recommended depth, but if bare bottom is ojay, is there any reason I couldn't do a thin layer in both?)


    My tank is finally cycled - I haven't been medicating for the past several weeks. I truly don't mean to be difficult - what would you suggest for the stringy poop? Do you agree medicated flakes would be ok, or should I not treat for that either, and just wait and see? I'm still learning, so I eagerly want to know the why behind the what too.

    (I have three little boys in my house, and there's no way a fish would survive in a bin with a 2yo around. I would honestly prefer using the 10g as a QT, unless there is some reason it's truly a bad idea... and I'm still very much a Newbie, so I'd love to have it explained :) )
     
  13. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Yes, I read that and it didn't register. I read it as use with water changes. So agree, not necessary to do daily.
    Stop medicating and put in quarantine tank and in and do what?

    Um ok... looks like this poster feels that medicating when a fish has white poo is unnecessary "paranoid"and it is better to quarantine ( only) instead. I disagree. I think the meds you were using were insufficient to get rid of the white poo. Your fish began with it and after treating with antibiotics and a bacterial medication Still has it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2017
  14. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    She was involved in one of my previous posts about the issue. She definitely seemed to take the route of working on completing my cycle before medicating, and I honestly feel she was very helpful. My Mickey kept getting worse though - swimming funny, hiding, clamped fins, etc, so I decided to medicate anyway... and maybe it wasn't the right choice.

    I have lost three fish already (a couple months ago), and I don't know what I'm doing. That's why I'm asking for help, and explanations help me make informed choices. I definitely don't want to annoy anyone - I want to learn from everyone.... but I don't want anyone annoyed by me either! I'm just trying to muddle through.

    I'm concerned that the solid white poo has turned back to stringy poo. In my mind, that means it's getting worse, and I don't know at what point it gets bad enough to be "BAD" and I'd rather not get to a point of no return. I'll listen to all advice! :)
     
  15. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Oh, I see... well it would of been helpful to provide a little more context in her post as to the who, what, where and why she responded the way she did. I did read and not "see" that you were dosing prime and stability daily, this is not necessary. But, it is nothing tragic. I dose frequently with stability, it is an excellent product. You will only need to dose it once weekly with your water change. Prime also, only once weekly. Now, I can see that she may be concerned that the white poo may be stomach lining at this point from your antibiotic treatments. Now that would be worth considering. What you could do, since your fish are still eating and seem relatively fine, is put into quarantine tank and observe for a week.... just observing. Ok, that sounds reasonable. After that, if still has white poo ( like it had before you began the antibiotic and bacterial medication) I would treat with the medicated flake dewormer. Prazi is a mild medication and the most effective for worms if this is what it is. . You have not been irritating to me at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  16. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    The 10g is my QT :) (The 45 is fishless cycling while I figure out what's going on with these two.)

    So I went back and looked at previous threads, and it looks like I finished dosing around 4/2, so about 2.5 weeks. The poos looked more "normal" at that point, but were still not detaching "normally." Within a week, they were getting long and white again. Today, after the pea, it was very cottony and long again (mixed with some thicker white parts) on the Mickey, and the other Platy has long part-light, part-dark poos too. Wait more? Or try the Praziquantel flakes? I can at least order them and it will take a bit til I get them anyway, and then I'd at least have it on hand...


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Yes, that sounds good. Make sure to follow the package directions to the letter. Keep me posted. :)
     
  18. KimberlyG

    KimberlyGFishlore VIPMember

    I think you were on the right track with the API General Cure, but with internal parasites you would ideally treat internally (i.e. Medicated food so that the medicine is internalized not being applied topically.) I am currently doing soaked food with general cure, epsom salts, and garlic powder for some gouramis. The Prazi product that Discus spoke of is very good. (and a lot easier. lol)
     
  19. DiscusluvWell Known MemberMember

    Hopefully the flakes will come with a little garlic flavor or "pizza flavor" Lol! added so the fish will be drawn to eat them. :) but, if that is all they get they will eventually eat them.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    PaulaMPi

    PaulaMPiValued MemberMember

    I have tried doing soaked food before. I have garlic guard from when I tried before, but I had a very hard time using the pellets, as when they dried out, they were so hard the fish wouldn't eat them :-( the Prazipro product, is that for soaking food? Or is it for putting directly in the tank? Or the medicated flakes seem like they might be the easiest answer… And at this point, I'm all for something that is easy, but even more so is likely to work :)
     




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