Medication for quarantine approval

Chris1212

I haven't used any of those but I did use Nox Ich for an outbreak in my tank and it worked great. Slight blue tint on some decorations but got rid of the parasites.
 
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mimo91088

I don't like quarantining otocinclus. The collection/shipping process is usually more than enough stress on them without dosing meds "just in case". I prefer to get them in the tank as soon as possible and just treat issues IF they arise down the road.

This wouldn't apply if you were getting them from a local source who got them well established. But then what are you quarantining for if you trust the tank they came from?
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Don't use antibiotics unless there's an infection.

Don't use ich treatments unless there's an infection. They're relatively safe but not 100% safe.

Based on studies of ornamental fish parasites, metronidazole, praziquantel, and levamisole (or fenbendazole) should be used to treat new fish.
Yes, these are new fish. I haven't got any fish yet. Personally, I don't want to take the risk of losing my fish so I will just quarantine them and then add them.
I don't like quarantining otocinclus. The collection/shipping process is usually more than enough stress on them without dosing meds "just in case". I prefer to get them in the tank as soon as possible and just treat issues IF they arise down the road.

This wouldn't apply if you were getting them from a local source who got them well established. But then what are you quarantining for if you trust the tank they came from?
I don't want to have to dose my whole tank in a panic, I have heard stories where people were too late and I really don't want to lose any fish because I didn't quarantine. It's better safe than sorry. I don't know or trust any retailers I am getting the fish from. I won't immediately put them into medicated water I will let them settle and then slowly add the meds.

Don't use antibiotics unless there's an infection.

Don't use ich treatments unless there's an infection. They're relatively safe but not 100% safe.

Based on studies of ornamental fish parasites, metronidazole, praziquantel, and levamisole (or fenbendazole) should be used to treat new fish.
These are new fish. Better safe than sorry.


DO I need to change any neds or replace any meds?
 
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AvalancheDave

These are new fish. Better safe than sorry.

Put them in a QT tank for easy observation.

It's nearly impossible to eliminate bacteria. Antibiotics tip the balance in favor of the immune system when there's an infection.

DO I need to change any neds or replace any meds?

I wouldn't use any of the Maracyns. Trimethoprim and ciprofloxacin (actually the very similar enrofloxacin) is what fish vets use. But only when there's an infection.

Protozoans such as Hexamita and Cryptobia as well as nematodes like Camallanus are common enough to warrant treatment during QT.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Put them in a QT tank for easy observation.

It's nearly impossible to eliminate bacteria. Antibiotics tip the balance in favor of the immune system when there's an infection.



I wouldn't use any of the Maracyns. Trimethoprim and ciprofloxacin (actually the very similar enrofloxacin) is what fish vets use. But only when there's an infection.

Protozoans such as Hexamita and Cryptobia as well as nematodes like Camallanus are common enough to warrant treatment during QT.
So, no marcyn cause it is too extreme. What bacterial infection med would you recommend?
 
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AvalancheDave

So, no marcyn cause it is too extreme. What bacterial infection med would you recommend?

The Maracyns along with most other antibiotics sold to aquarists are ineffective for a variety of reasons.

Trimethoprim and cipro are what fish vets use in the water. They use other stuff via injection. Ignore the dosing on the bottles and dose one trimethoprim or two cipro tablets crushed per day per 10 gal. Use only when there are obvious signs of bacterial infection. As dry drugs they're good decades beyond the expiration date so don't be afraid to stock up.

Save cipro for things that are difficult to treat (popeye) or likely Aeromonas (deep holes in the side of the fish). Use trimethoprim for wimpier infections such as Columnaris.
 
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Shrimp42

So, no marcyn cause it is too extreme. What bacterial infection med would you recommend?
Don't use one. Unless an issue arises dont use any at all. I would recommend something for internal parasites as said above as you can't see internal parasites and fish won't show symptoms until the worms cause a problem. Bombarding meds isn't a good idea, at least IME.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Don't use one. Unless an issue arises dont use any at all. I would recommend something for internal parasites as said above as you can't see internal parasites and fish won't show symptoms until the worms cause a problem. Bombarding meds isn't a good idea, at least IME.
So, which to meds should I do out of ich-x, prazi pro, and general cure.

The Maracyns along with most other antibiotics sold to aquarists are ineffective for a variety of reasons.

Trimethoprim and cipro are what fish vets use in the water. They use other stuff via injection. Ignore the dosing on the bottles and dose one trimethoprim or two cipro tablets crushed per day per 10 gal. Use only when there are obvious signs of bacterial infection. As dry drugs they're good decades beyond the expiration date so don't be afraid to stock up.

Save cipro for things that are difficult to treat (popeye) or likely Aeromonas (deep holes in the side of the fish). Use trimethoprim for wimpier infections such as Columnaris.
ohhh...informative! Thanks.
 
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AvalancheDave

So, which to meds should I do out of ich-x, prazi pro, and general cure.

I would have Ich-X on standby in case of an ich outbreak. Ich treatments sometimes kill fish so don't use them unless you have to.

PraziPro should be dosed on a schedule for tapeworm. I would add levamisole in water/food or fenbendazole in food for roundworms.

I would buy generic metronidazole instead of GC and try to put it in food. It can treat ich when fed and is safer than traditional ich treatments.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

I would have Ich-X on standby in case of an ich outbreak. Ich treatments sometimes kill fish so don't use them unless you have to.

PraziPro should be dosed on a schedule for tapeworm. I would add levamisole in water/food or fenbendazole in food for roundworms.

I would buy generic metronidazole instead of GC and try to put it in food. It can treat ich when fed and is safer than traditional ich treatments.
hmmmm,......okay thanks! Based on this info, I will decide.
 
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Shrimp42

hmmmm,......okay thanks! Based on this info, I will decide.
Yes general cure is, in my opinion, garbage. Its cheaper to buy prazipro and it works just as good. Im telling you now, its not worth to just skip deworming. I've found out the hard way, I have lost so many fish to internal parasites. Levamisole and prazipro is what I use, both are cheap and work.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Yes general cure is, in my opinion, garbage. Its cheaper to buy prazipro and it works just as good. Im telling you now, its not worth to just skip deworming. I've found out the hard way, I have lost so many fish to internal parasites. Levamisole and prazipro is what I use, both are cheap and work.
So prazi pro, levamisole, and ich-x, right?

Though I want to treat for external parasites too. So, what do I use for external parasites?
 
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Shrimp42

So prazi pro, levamisole, and ich-x, right?
I would have ich-x on hand but if the fish are kept at tropical temperatures and you quarantine for at least a week you should know if the fish have ich or not, so no need to dose it unless you are sure they have it.

Though I want to treat for external parasites too.
Well if that's the case prazipro gets rid of gill flukes as well and other external parasites should be easily spotted on the fish.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Well if that's the case prazipro gets rid of gill flukes as well and other external parasites should be easily spotted on the fish.
Okay! Thank you guys so so much! Especially RomanNoodles96 !

I would have ich-x on hand but if the fish are kept at tropical temperatures and you quarantine for at least a week you should know if the fish have ich or not, so no need to dose it unless you are sure they have it.
Ich X also treats velvet, fungal infections, and two other diseases I have no idea how to spell.

Correction Ich-x treats
  • Treats Ich
  • Treats Cryptocaryonaisis
  • Treats Trichodiniasis
  • Treats Velvet (Gold Dust)
  • Treats Saprolegniasis

So, that's a plus!
 
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Shrimp42

Okay! Thank you guys so so much! Especially RomanNoodles96 !


Ich X also treats velvet, fungal infections, and two other diseases I have no idea how to spell.
Glad I could help. Most of what I have learned has come from AvalancheDave and others on this forum. What I have found is most meds that are classified as, "fish meds" aren't as effective as they claim to be. Ich-x is a good medicine and so is prazipro and levamisole. Most antibiotics labeled for fish use do more harm than good.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Glad I could help. Most of what I have learned has come from AvalancheDave and others on this forum. What I have found is most meds that are classified as, "fish meds" aren't as effective as they claim to be. Ich-x is a good medicine and so is prazipro and levamisole. Most antibiotics labeled for fish use do more harm than good.
Oh! How can I be so disrespectful! Thank you AvalancheDave and mimo91088 !
So will the meds I will be using (Ich-x, prazipro, and levamisole.) will they be safe for all fish?
 
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Shrimp42

Oh! How can I be so disrespectful! Thank you AvalancheDave and mimo91088 !
So will the meds I will be using (Ich-x, prazipro, and levamisole.) will they be safe for all fish?
Yes they should. Keep in mind though that dosing levamisole can be tricky as its in a powder form and unless you buy from somewhere that specifically divides levamisole up in dosings for fish, you may accidentally overdose (as I've done). I would recommend either buying levamisole from select aquatics where they have everything pre-measured (this method will be more pricey) or use a scale to measure the portions for your tank size. Levamisole is commonly sold as sheep dewormer. I will link you to my thread on levamisole. If you don't like all this dosing than you can use fenbendazole instead which you mix into the food and feed the fish with.

The link to my thread:
Internal parasite meds | Freshwater Fish Disease and Fish Health Forum | 473628
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Yes they should. Keep in mind though that dosing levamisole can be tricky as its in a powder form and unless you buy from somewhere that specifically divides levamisole up in dosings for fish, you may accidentally overdose (as I've done). I would recommend either buying levamisole from select aquatics where they have everything pre-measured (this method will be more pricey) or use a scale to measure the portions for your tank size. Levamisole is commonly sold as sheep dewormer. I will link you to my thread on levamisole. If you don't like all this dosing than you can use fenbendazole instead which you mix into the food and feed the fish with.
I have a scale that measures grams to lbs. Will that work? I will check out your thread.
 
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Shrimp42

I have a scale that measures grams to lbs. Will that work? I will check out your thread.
Yes grams will be what you need to measure.
 
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DoubleDutch

But aren't people mixing up QT-tanks and hospital tanks?

Quarantiing is keeping new fish seperated for some time and simply watch if a disease incubates in that time. That is the only reason.

A hospitaltank is used to treat sick fish seperated from other healthy fish.

Just like cycling "patience" is the keyword.
As Dave stated treating diseases that aren't there is ridiculous. Meds aren't "designed" as precaution but as treatment of "something". They will do more harm then good.

We don't treat newborns for all possible diseases they might face during their lige (vaccination is a completely different thing).

Good clean water, waterchanges and good food is enough for a QT tank
 
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Mazeus

With the Otos and quarantining. Get the otos last. I presume you aren't getting all these fish at once? If you get them in stages (and keep the quarantine tank running consistently) by the time you get the otos, the quarantine tank will have been going for several months and will have more biofilm.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

With the Otos and quarantining. Get the otos last. I presume you aren't getting all these fish at once? If you get them in stages (and keep the quarantine tank running consistently) by the time you get the otos, the quarantine tank will have been going for several months and will have more biofilm.
Yes, definitely not getting all the fist at once. I will add the betta last because when he is established "his area", if a new fish comes the betta might be aggressive if new fish come in.

I will have all three QT tanks running at all times.

So, my plan is have the QT tank cycle for a month (about 4-6 weeks) when parameters look good, add in the corydoras. I will have 3 QT tubs. So while the corydoras are in QT, In a separate QT tub I will QT the rasboras. The corydoras and rasboras will be in QT for 4-6 weeks. Once the display tank is done cycling (should be done in about 6 weeks) I will add in the rasboras and corydoras. Then the third QT tank (it should be running for 2 months) I will add-in the otos. Once the otos are done in QT I will add them to the display tank. Then for the betta I don't think I will QT because the bettas are in cups. They are not exposed to anything. Do you guys think the betta should got through QT??

But aren't people mixing up QT-tanks and hospital tanks?

Quarantiing is keeping new fish seperated for some time and simply watch if a disease incubates in that time. That is the only reason.

A hospitaltank is used to treat sick fish seperated from other healthy fish.

Just like cycling "patience" is the keyword.
As Dave stated treating diseases that aren't there is ridiculous. Meds aren't "designed" as precaution but as treatment of "something". They will do more harm then good.

We don't treat newborns for all possible diseases they might face during their lige (vaccination is a completely different thing).

Good clean water, waterchanges and good food is enough for a QT tank
I really really want to be safe this time. The meds I am doing are gentle, compared to Maracyn. These are just parasite and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh.
 
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Mazeus

Yes, definitely not getting all the fist at once. I will add the betta last because when he is established "his area", if a new fish comes the betta might be aggressive if new fish come in.

I will have all three QT tanks running at all times.

So, my plan is have the QT tank cycle for a month (about 4-6 weeks) when parameters look good, add in the corydoras. I will have 3 QT tubs. So while the corydoras are in QT, In a separate QT tub I will QT the rasboras. The corydoras and rasboras will be in QT for 4-6 weeks. Once the display tank is done cycling (should be done in about 6 weeks) I will add in the rasboras and corydoras. Then the third QT tank (it should be running for 2 months) I will add-in the otos. Once the otos are done in QT I will add them to the display tank. Then for the betta I don't think I will QT because the bettas are in cups. They are not exposed to anything. Do you guys think the betta should got through QT??


I really really want to be safe this time. The meds I am doing are gentle, compared to Maracyn. These are just parasite and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh.

Why have 3 QT tubs? I would add the first fish to your display tank (if they are the only fish in the tank that is their quarantine). If all is fine after a month get the next fish, put them in quarantine for 4-6 weeks, then if all is fine, move them to the main tank and put your next set of fish into the QT tank. Repeat until stocked. This allows the BB in your tank to grow with the stocking as well, avoiding any mini cycles.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Why have 3 QT tubs? I would add the first fish to your display tank (if they are the only fish in the tank that is their quarantine). If all is fine after a month get the next fish, put them in quarantine for 4-6 weeks, then if all is fine, move them to the main tank and put your next set of fish into the QT tank. Repeat until stocked. This allows the BB in your tank to grow with the stocking as well, avoiding any mini cycles.
I just found the cheapest price and got that. The cheapest price had 3 QT tanks. Also, ohhhh....so first, corydoras. Then, rasboras. Then, otos and then, the betta. So, it will just be using 1 QT tank. Okay, Thanks! Also, should I QT the betta??
 
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Mazeus

I just found the cheapest price and got that. The cheapest price had 3 QT tanks. Also, ohhhh....so first, corydoras. Then, rasboras. Then, otos and then, the betta. So, it will just be using 1 QT tank. Okay, Thanks! Also, should I QT the betta??

I would quarantine. Believe me, it only takes diseased fish to wipe out a whole tank.
 
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MacZ

I agree with AvalancheDave and DoubleDutch.

Have meds there but ONLY use them if something comes up.

I really really want to be safe this time. The meds I am doing are gentle, compared to Maracyn. These are just parasite and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh.

All these meds are in fact poisons of different strength. They all are going to put a certain strain on the fish. You may even make a disease you're not treating for break out by loweing their immune systems with all that stuff.

You are safest when you really keep them in quarantine for 3 weeks and only dose any meds when needed.

Much more important: Get separate water changing equipment, nets and the like for your quarantine containers. Preventing crosscontamination in case any fish are sick is much more important.


About the Otos:
a. Wait at least 3, better 6 months after setting up the main tank. Otherwise the tank will not have enough aufwuchs to sustain them in case they won't eat the supplements.
b. Depending on how many and in what state they are you otherwise risk losing them all. I don't know how often I said so: They will be starved and don't know supplementary foods. At least get rocks with algae ready (just put a small container on your window sill).
c. They are extremely sensitive to changing conditions. Usually there are several timed steps in acclimating Otos. First step is getting them through the first 24 hours, then 1 week, then 1 month, then 3 months. All that are still alive after this will make it longer. When you quarantine them and then move them to your main tank, you may restart the steps. Just consider this.
 
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DoubleDutch

Yes, definitely not getting all the fist at once. I will add the betta last because when he is established "his area", if a new fish comes the betta might be aggressive if new fish come in.

I will have all three QT tanks running at all times.

So, my plan is have the QT tank cycle for a month (about 4-6 weeks) when parameters look good, add in the corydoras. I will have 3 QT tubs. So while the corydoras are in QT, In a separate QT tub I will QT the rasboras. The corydoras and rasboras will be in QT for 4-6 weeks. Once the display tank is done cycling (should be done in about 6 weeks) I will add in the rasboras and corydoras. Then the third QT tank (it should be running for 2 months) I will add-in the otos. Once the otos are done in QT I will add them to the display tank. Then for the betta I don't think I will QT because the bettas are in cups. They are not exposed to anything. Do you guys think the betta should got through QT??


I really really want to be safe this time. The meds I am doing are gentle, compared to Maracyn. These are just parasite and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh.

That's the point : One can never never be reapy realy safe (Only by not.keeping fish) Especially with bacteria this use of meds can cause a disaster nevertheless.

Bacterial issues often are a case of balance between good and bad. You'll NEVER treat one specific bad bacteria but will also harm good ones (being the counterpart of the bad ones)

Next thing is you'll put that fish in a tank in which good and bad ones will be present again (For instance Columnaris). The fish will have a hard time to fight of an infection of those bad ones again.

As said : No meds are made for precaution but only for treatment "on sight".
An infection is an overload of a certain bacteria.

Using meds this way to "be safe" is a fairy tale. Also there are tens and maybe hundreds of possible diseases all with their specific causes. It is impossible to prevent all in this way.

Balance, hygiene, buying healthy livelyfish, good food, a decent cycled fish and a lot of PATIENCE are by far more important.

The immunesystem of the fish itself is something to keep in mind.
 
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Chris1212

Preventive meds is definitely a debated issue. I chose not to for my first batch of new fish in a qt (platy and bolivian). Now every time I see the platy with a weird poop I think I probably should have treated for worms and now wonder if I should treat my tank. Who knows.

For our last batch of new fish (school of glofish) I may do some preventive parasite treatment, maybe not.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

I would quarantine. Believe me, it only takes diseased fish to wipe out a whole tank.
Ok thanks.

That's the point : One can never never be reapy realy safe (Only by not.keeping fish) Especially with bacteria this use of meds can cause a disaster nevertheless.

Bacterial issues often are a case of balance between good and bad. You'll NEVER treat one specific bad bacteria but will also harm good ones (being the counterpart of the bad ones)

Next thing is you'll put that fish in a tank in which good and bad ones will be present again (For instance Columnaris). The fish will have a hard time to fight of an infection of those bad ones again.

As said : No meds are made for precaution but only for treatment "on sight".
An infection is an overload of a certain bacteria.

Using meds this way to "be safe" is a fairy tale. Also there are tens and maybe hundreds of possible diseases all with their specific causes. It is impossible to prevent all in this way.

Balance, hygiene, buying healthy livelyfish, good food, a decent cycled fish and a lot of PATIENCE are by far more important.

The immunesystem of the fish itself is something to keep in mind.

Okay, okay, fine. You guys convinced me I will wait a few weeks. If no symptoms I will add them in. If they do show symptoms I will add meds.

I agree with AvalancheDave and DoubleDutch.

Have meds there but ONLY use them if something comes up.



All these meds are in fact poisons of different strength. They all are going to put a certain strain on the fish. You may even make a disease you're not treating for break out by loweing their immune systems with all that stuff.

You are safest when you really keep them in quarantine for 3 weeks and only dose any meds when needed.

Much more important: Get separate water changing equipment, nets and the like for your quarantine containers. Preventing crosscontamination in case any fish are sick is much more important.


About the Otos:
a. Wait at least 3, better 6 months after setting up the main tank. Otherwise the tank will not have enough aufwuchs to sustain them in case they won't eat the supplements.
b. Depending on how many and in what state they are you otherwise risk losing them all. I don't know how often I said so: They will be starved and don't know supplementary foods. At least get rocks with algae ready (just put a small container on your window sill).
c. They are extremely sensitive to changing conditions. Usually there are several timed steps in acclimating Otos. First step is getting them through the first 24 hours, then 1 week, then 1 month, then 3 months. All that are still alive after this will make it longer. When you quarantine them and then move them to your main tank, you may restart the steps. Just consider this.
Okay, okay, fine. You guys convinced me I will wait a few weeks. If no symptoms I will add them in. If they do show symptoms I will add meds. Also, I will be feeding the otocinclus repashy soilent green and veggies. Repashy is made for aufwuchs eaters. otos love it! (from what I have heard) So, no issue there.

I am still apprehensive about it. Idk if I want to do it. Here is a video. I really don't know if I want to do that.

 
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Shrimp42

But aren't people mixing up QT-tanks and hospital tanks?

Quarantiing is keeping new fish seperated for some time and simply watch if a disease incubates in that time. That is the only reason.

A hospitaltank is used to treat sick fish seperated from other healthy fish.

Just like cycling "patience" is the keyword.
As Dave stated treating diseases that aren't there is ridiculous. Meds aren't "designed" as precaution but as treatment of "something". They will do more harm then good.

We don't treat newborns for all possible diseases they might face during their lige (vaccination is a completely different thing).

Good clean water, waterchanges and good food is enough for a QT tank
I disagree. Internal parasites can be in a fish for so long and usually once they start showing signs it can be too late. Dave shared a report that showed how often fish had internal parasites by examining fish in a shipment, and its too the point where why wouldn't you predose. Water changes are good and all, but they arent just going to magically remove internal parasites. If that was the case, there would be no point in having medicine. Internal parasites can be dormant in a fish for months and most people only quarantine for a month or 2.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't pretreat diseases that are easily spotted like bacterial infection, fungus, etc.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

I disagree. Internal parasites can be in a fish for so long and usually once they start showing signs it can be too late. Dave shared a report that showed how often fish had internal parasites by examining fish in a shipment, and its too the point where why wouldn't you predose. Water changes are good and all, but they arent just going to magically remove internal parasites. If that was the case, there would be no point in having medicine. Internal parasites can be dormant in a fish for months and most people only quarantine for a month or 2.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't pretreat diseases that are spotted like bacterial infection, fungus, etc.
I agree with RomanNoodles96 The meds I am doing are gentle. These are just parasites and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh. It's like giving your new cat or dog a vaccination, making sure they are perfectly healthy. Why Do we spay and neuter? To Be careful. Why do we give vaccinations? To Be careful. I whole heartedly agree with RomanNoodles96


The video I list in my previous post proves this.
 
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MacZ

Okay, okay, fine. You guys convinced me I will wait a few weeks. If no symptoms I will add them in. If they do show symptoms I will add meds. Also, I will be feeding the otocinclus repashy soilent green and veggies. Repashy is made for aufwuchs eaters. otos love it! (from what I have heard) So, no issue there.

And that's how quarantining works. You observe and only dose if necessary.

A vaccine is antibodies or harmless versions of or parts of the actual pathogen. The goal is to strengthen the immune system by confronting it with a harmless or low risk pathogen.
Meds, though, are toxins, that kill cells and actually put a strain on the fishes immune system as a side-effect while killing of the actual pathogen. They do the opposite of what a vaccine does. Also, don't underestimate the physiological differences between a fish of maybe 10 grams and mammals of several kilograms. A dog can stand much higher doses of such toxins than a fish, just because it is bigger in relation to the parasite.

I had mediocre success with repashy. So try different veggies and even artemia or cyclops. Some Otos also go for those.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

And that's how quarantining works. You observe and only dose if necessary.

A vaccine is antibodies or harmless versions of or parts of the actual pathogen. The goal is to strengthen the immune system by confronting it with a harmless or low risk pathogen.
Meds, though, are toxins, that kill cells and actually put a strain on the fishes immune system as a side-effect while killing of the actual pathogen. They do the opposite of what a vaccine does. Also, don't underestimate the physiological differences between a fish of maybe 10 grams and mammals of several kilograms. A dog can stand much higher doses of such toxins than a fish, just because it is bigger in relation to the parasite.

I had mediocre success with repashy. So try different veggies and even artemia or cyclops. Some Otos also go for those.
Actually, like the indecisive person I am, I will go with RomanNoodles96 . Did you watch the video I posted I rewatched that and read this thread again and I changed my mind.
 
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DoubleDutch

I agree with RomanNoodles96 The meds I am doing are gentle. These are just parasites and internal worm meds. Nothing too harsh. It's like giving your new cat or dog a vaccination, making sure they are perfectly healthy. Why Do we spay and neuter? To Be careful. Why do we give vaccinations? To Be careful. I whole heartedly agree with RomanNoodles96


The video I list in my previous post proves this.

I disagree. This is not anything like vaccination at all.

Using meds that aren't that harsh is even worse than the use of real meds at moments when it is needed.
Resistance simply is caused by the misuse of meds.

Roman, dewormers are a bit of a different thing to me than other meds. We deworm cats, dogs and orher animals as precaution (even if we don't know it they have them)
What I meand is the misuse of parasital and antibacterial (and certainly antibiotics)
As said : those are not.meand for use as precaution.

But I'll rest my case. I seem not to be able to make my point hahahahha.

I disagree. Internal parasites can be in a fish for so long and usually once they start showing signs it can be too late. Dave shared a report that showed how often fish had internal parasites by examining fish in a shipment, and its too the point where why wouldn't you predose. Water changes are good and all, but they arent just going to magically remove internal parasites. If that was the case, there would be no point in having medicine. Internal parasites can be dormant in a fish for months and most people only quarantine for a month or 2.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't pretreat diseases that are easily spotted like bacterial infection, fungus, etc.

Do the used meds treat dormant parasites ?
 
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BettasAreSuperior

I disagree. This is not anything like vaccination at all.

Using meds that aren't that harsh is even worse than the use of real meds at moments when it is needed.
Resistance simply is caused by the misuse of meds.

Roman, dewormers are a bit of a different thing to me than other meds. We deworm cats, dogs and orher animals as precaution (even if we don't know it they have them)
What I meand is the misuse of parasital and antibacterial (and certainly antibiotics)
As said : those are not.meand for use as precaution.

But I'll rest my case. I seem not to be able to make my point hahahahha.
lol, the last line. hahahaha. I feel like worms and parasites are very common so it's good to treat. I can't believe I created such a hot and debated topic. But I will rest my case too.
 
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DoubleDutch

Hoping your fish will do well.

Think the use of meds in general is thought a bit different about in Europe hahahaha. Antibiotics aren't available at all.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

I disagree. This is not anything like vaccination at all.

Using meds that aren't that harsh is even worse than the use of real meds at moments when it is needed.
Resistance simply is caused by the misuse of meds.

Roman, dewormers are a bit of a different thing to me than other meds. We deworm cats, dogs, and other animals as a precaution (even if we don't know if they have them)
What I meant is the misuse of parasital and antibacterial (and certainly antibiotics)
As said: those are not meant for use as a precaution.

But I'll rest my case. I seem not to be able to make my point hahahahha.
ooo!!! Double dutch I remember you said that cory habrosus cannot live in 79F water. Is that true cause' I want to keep them but give them a good life. Could I keep sterbais in 79F water?

Post:

In my opinion Salt and Peppers aren't an option.

Corydoras(ln9) habrosus • Callichthyidae • Cat-eLog

Besides the temp I think you should better get some hardier Cories. C.aeneus are bullet proof and are even for "smaller" tanks a better choice cause they will have less issues.
 
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DoubleDutch

St
ooo!!! Double dutch I remember you said that cory habrosus cannot live in 79F water. Is that true cause' I want to keep them but give them a good life. Could I keep sterbais in 79F water?

Post:

Personally I think 79F on the long term is too warm for S&P corys and perfect for Sterbai.

But to honest I was never succesful keeping C.habrosus (though they are one of my favourites).

Funny thing is that some people keep (or even breed) certain fish without doing something special or not following "the rules" (if those excist). Other keepers following these "rules" never succeed hahahaha.

But a lot of decent keepers have had issues with C.habrosus which made me suspect the smaller tanks (more instabil circumstances) they are kept in as "nanofish" could be culprit.
 
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Shrimp42

Do the used meds treat dormant parasites ?
By dormant I meant small amounts of worms that don't have any noticeable effect on the fish.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

St

Personally I think 79F on the long term is too warm for S&P corys and perfect for Sterbai.

But to honest I was never succesful keeping C.habrosus (though they are one of my favourites).

Funny thing is that some people keep (or even breed) certain fish without doing something special or not following "the rules" (if those excist). Other keepers following these "rules" never succeed hahahaha.

But a lot of decent keepers have had issues with C.habrosus which made me suspect the smaller tanks (more instabil circumstances) they are kept in as "nanofish" could be culprit.
hahahaha! So, can 6 sterbai's along with other fish go in a 20 long?


Okay, sorry to move away from the question but I wanted to ask DoubleDutch this.
 
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DoubleDutch

hahahaha! So, can 6 sterbai's along with other fish go in a 20 long?


Okay, sorry to move away from the question but I wanted to ask DoubleDutch this.

Don't recall the complete stocking, but sizewise you can.

Mmmm
By dormant I meant small amounts of worms that don't have any noticeable effect on the fish.
ah okay. Thought you meand eggs.
 
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DoubleDutch

okay. Thank you! The stocking is.
1 betta
8 harlequin rasboras
6 sterbai cory
6 otocinclus

Okay.
I think it is too warm for Otos as well (sorry)
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Okay.
I think it is too warm for Otos as well (sorry)
I have to disagree. People say otos can live in 79F. Could I keep a betta in 77 F?
 
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DoubleDutch

I have to disagree. People say otos can live in 79F. Could I keep a betta in 77 F?
Okay ! If people say so.
 
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Kjeldsen

Dr. Jessie Sanders, DVM, President AAFV American Association of Fish Veterinarians says

Prophylactic treatments – NONE.
Do NOT simply dump every over-the-counter antibiotic, antifungal, “complete” or “general” cure-all without any signs of disease. By using these drugs at below prescribed therapeutic levels, you are breeding resistant bacteria. These bacteria will be a big problem if they become resistant to several drugs. There is no guarantee what the box says is even what the powder or liquid contains! The safest thing you can add to your quarantine/hospital tank water is a tap water conditioner and aquarium salt IF YOUR FISH IS TOLERANT OF LOW SALT LEVELS.


Over-Medicating Fish - Aquatic Veterinary Services


If a fish has ich or flukes, fungus or a bacterial infection, it will be evident. And remember that long white stringy poop is just an empty fecal cast and only means they haven't been eating, which is common for shipped fish.

The only thing I've used as a preventative is fenbendazole and only when receiving livebearers. They're known carriers of camallanus worms which can go undetected in qt, but aren't usually a big problem in other species.
 
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BettasAreSuperior

Dr. Jessie Sanders, DVM, President AAFV American Association of Fish Veterinarians says

Prophylactic treatments – NONE.
Do NOT simply dump every over-the-counter antibiotic, antifungal, “complete” or “general” cure-all without any signs of disease. By using these drugs at below prescribed therapeutic levels, you are breeding resistant bacteria. These bacteria will be a big problem if they become resistant to several drugs. There is no guarantee what the box says is even what the powder or liquid contains! The safest thing you can add to your quarantine/hospital tank water is a tap water conditioner and aquarium salt IF YOUR FISH IS TOLERANT OF LOW SALT LEVELS.


Over-Medicating Fish - Aquatic Veterinary Services


If a fish has ich or flukes, fungus or a bacterial infection, it will be evident. And remember that long white stringy poop is just an empty fecal cast and only means they haven't been eating, which is common for shipped fish.

The only thing I've used as a preventative is fenbendazole and only when receiving livebearers. They're known carriers of camallanus worms which can go undetected in qt, but aren't usually a big problem in other species.
Thank you for the detailed response. I think I will do that. ( I am very indecisive, lol)
 
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