Mean Angelfish.. whats compatible?

Hello.. I am new to the site, loving the people and advice so far. Anyway, on with the question, I have this angelfish named Ponyboy (hes golden). I had him since he was small. He has grown quite large now, and he is pretty terriotorial. I have no idea if he is actually male or not. Anyway, I suspect him to be injuring some of my fish. I think he has killed off a few of my guppies and plattys. I want to add some new friends, but I don't want him to kill them. He's in a 30 gallon Hexagon tank kept at 78 degrees. His buddies right now are 3 plattys, 1 remaining female guppy and 4 cory cats. I was interested in keeping gouramis or rams.. any advice? Thank you!

 

What's the diameter of the tank? Hex tanks have a very short swimming area, and he may be feeling cramped.

 

HI and welcome.
There is just one Angel in the tank, correct? I'm surprised the guppy hasn't become a snack yet, and it is likely that he has indeed been harassing the smaller fish.
I personally would rehome the platies and guppy. What kind of cory cats? And how long has your tank been established? I would go with rams over gouramis.

 

I think it's rather a small tank and Gouramies or Rams will not be able to get out of the way either.

I would not get another Angel. If you wish to keep this one in this tank you will need to keep it alone or with fish that he cannot harm and will not harm him.

It does not matter whether the Angel is a male or a female in this situation.

Something that lives in a cave and can get out of the way quickly to retreat safely there may work e.g. Bristlenose.

 

Hello! I breed angelfish on and off, so just popping by

From my personal experience, angelfish in general have very very wide range of temperament. I have many that are docile and do extremely well in a community tank. In fact, I have 2x angels who are 5 inch across their body, that I keep with juvenile neon tetras. I've not had an issue with aggression or predation. On the other hand, I had 2 specific Angels that killed everything in their tank, including a ray that was 7 inch across the body.

The other thing is, I find that angel's aggression and sense of territory becomes significantly intensified once they get to about 3-4 inches in body diameter. It would sound like yours has reached sexual maturity, and is now being very territorial.

At this point in time, assuming that the aggression is sustained, you're better off keeping it in an aquarium without smaller fishes. There isn't much you can do with an aggressive rogue cichlids hahaha

 

If you could upgrade his tank, that would be ideal for him, and you'd have room to add more fish.

 

What's the diameter of the tank? Hex tanks have a very short swimming area, and he may be feeling cramped.

Hey My tank has to atleast be two feet across and maybe a little under or 3 feet high. I'm sorry I don't have exact meausurements. I read online angels prefer longer tanks bc of their long body shape, that's why I got him in there.

HI and welcome.
There is just one Angel in the tank, correct? I'm surprised the guppy hasn't become a snack yet, and it is likely that he has indeed been harassing the smaller fish.
I personally would rehome the platies and guppy. What kind of cory cats? And how long has your tank been established? I would go with rams over gouramis.

Hi! Yes there is only 1 angel. He has to be pretty big too by now. The guppy is female and has been with him from the start, she is pretty large for a guppy too. The tank has been established for 4 months now. I am having nitrate problems but that's on another thread lol. I would love rams or gouramis.. and I have no idea what kind of corys they are. They are brown and black if that helps. They look like they have little bandit masks.

I think it's rather a small tank and Gouramies or Rams will not be able to get out of the way either.

I would not get another Angel. If you wish to keep this one in this tank you will need to keep it alone or with fish that he cannot harm and will not harm him.

It does not matter whether the Angel is a male or a female in this situation.

Something that lives in a cave and can get out of the way quickly to retreat safely there may work e.g. Bristlenose.

I never thought the tank was that small.. I do not have money for a larger tank so that is not an option. If you could give some more suggestions of types of fish that would be helpful

Hello! I breed angelfish on and off, so just popping by

From my personal experience, angelfish in general have very very wide range of temperament. I have many that are docile and do extremely well in a community tank. In fact, I have 2x angels who are 5 inch across their body, that I keep with juvenile neon tetras. I've not had an issue with aggression or predation. On the other hand, I had 2 specific Angels that killed everything in their tank, including a ray that was 7 inch across the body.

The other thing is, I find that angel's aggression and sense of territory becomes significantly intensified once they get to about 3-4 inches in body diameter. It would sound like yours has reached sexual maturity, and is now being very territorial.

At this point in time, assuming that the aggression is sustained, you're better off keeping it in an aquarium without smaller fishes. There isn't much you can do with an aggressive rogue cichlids hahaha

Oh wow that's really cool! Angelfish are so beautiful. I would not mind getting him some larger friends.. but I have no idea WHAT to get. I definitely know that he will fight another angel. He use to be docile as well until he got larger, so I agree with you on the size thing. If you have any fish suggestions I would appreciate it

If you could upgrade his tank, that would be ideal for him, and you'd have room to add more fish.

I can not upgrade his tank. I rather work with what I got. It's not like he is dying from being crowded. A lot of research went into my fish before I got them and he was to do well in a longer tank. So if you have any suggestions for fish in this tank, I would really appreciate it I am sorry I can't upgrade, I would love to have 3 tanks but I can't keep up.

 

Oh wow that's really cool! Angelfish are so beautiful. I would not mind getting him some larger friends.. but I have no idea WHAT to get. I definitely know that he will fight another angel. He use to be docile as well until he got larger, so I agree with you on the size thing. If you have any fish suggestions I would appreciate it

Hey OP, I don't have a suggestion on other thank mates, aside from plecos which are armored. However they will grow far too large for your tank. You could try a school of 6 corydoras. In general, aggressive angelfishes leave bottom dwellers alone.

wanted to ask how is your tank decorated?

For territorial fishes, it's good to have distinct plants or decorations. For angel fishes, something long and distinct, like a tall plant or a cone is good. These act as visual markers for the fish, which the fish then associates as its territory.

The pro is that his aggression could be dramatically decreased when he's outside of his territory

The con is that his aggression would almost certainly be increased towards fishes that venture near the marker.

 

I wouldn't add any more fish except ones that live in caves, as Redshark1 suggested. He has only 2 feet of swimming length and may indeed be feeling cramped.

Are there any plants or decorations in the tank currently?

 

Hey My tank has to atleast be two feet across and maybe a little under or 3 feet high. I'm sorry I don't have exact meausurements. I read online angels prefer longer tanks bc of their long body shape, that's why I got him in there.

That tank isn't very long though

If you can't get a larger tank, I'd actually rehome him. If you do that, you'll have plenty of room to add more fish.

If you don't rehome him, I wouldn't put anything more than a pleco or more cories (of the same species that you already have). There are some small plecos that would be appropriate for your tank size.

 

Hey OP, I don't have a suggestion on other thank mates, aside from plecos which are armored. However they will grow far too large for your tank. You could try a school of 6 corydoras. In general, aggressive angelfishes leave bottom dwellers alone.

wanted to ask how is your tank decorated?

For territorial fishes, it's good to have distinct plants or decorations. For angel fishes, something long and distinct, like a tall plant or a cone is good. These act as visual markers for the fish, which the fish then associates as its territory.

The pro is that his aggression could be dramatically decreased when he's outside of his territory

The con is that his aggression would almost certainly be increased towards fishes that venture near the marker.

My tank has a lot of long fake plants. I try to keep them as soft as possible. Also there is a large zebra rock I think its called. And a small hut for the smaller fish to hide.

Its frustrating that you guys think my tank is insufficient size for him.. online says 30 gals is plenty of room for an angel. I am just very confused. He does not look cramped or anything. I mean I appreciate everyones input but I really can not get a larger tank.

 

Its frustrating that you guys think my tank is insufficient size for him.. online says 30 gals is plenty of room for an angel. I am just very confused. He does not look cramped or anything. I mean I appreciate everyones input but I really can not get a larger tank.

Lol I actually think the size is fine in principle, and your course of action (buying that nice tall tank) was a good and informed one.

I think the only problem is that in your specific case, you have a highly aggressive angelfish. As such, folks are tryna think of how you can work around that problem. In many cases, more space will help with aggression issues.

In the same way, I had that pair of murderous angelfish that killed everything in the 70 gallon tank I had. For that specific case, I think no amount of reasonable space would've made any difference haha.

Cichlids are just very. Interesting fishes. Hahaha. They're an absolutely joy to rear, but can also be one helluva headache.

 

Its frustrating that you guys think my tank is insufficient size for him.. online says 30 gals is plenty of room for an angel. I am just very confused. He does not look cramped or anything. I mean I appreciate everyones input but I really can not get a larger tank.

A regular, 30" or 36" long 30 gal tank is appropriate. A 24" 30 gal tank is not. We're not trying to frustrate you. We're looking out for the fish.

 

It's not that the volume is insufficient, it is bare minimum! It's the footprint that's the limiting factor here. For their volume, hex tanks have a very small footprint compared to a standard 30 gallon tank. I don't feel like doing the math on a hex tank right now but to give you an idea, here are the footprints of 3 different types of 30 gallon tanks:

Standard 30 gallon: 432 sq. in.
30 gallon Extra High: 288 sq. in.
30 gallon Breeder: 648 sq. in.

Big differences! I would guess that your hex tank, though also a 30 gallon has a footprint of around that of the Extra High if not smaller. It really does affect your stocking choices because the fish have only 2 feet to move in any one direction so their ability to escape from aggressors is extremely limited

 

Ok guys.. thank you for the help. Maybe rehoming my angel would be best. I rather have a tank with lots of types of fish than just 1 aggressive one.. I feel so bad doing that. I feel attached to him. I do not even know how to go about rehoming him. I know nobody with a fish tank. Would I take him back to the store? I feel bad doing that as well. I don't want him to wind up in a worse situation

And lets say I did rehome him, would my options open up? Could I keep rams and gouramis and more guppies? I love guppies.

 

To rehome/return,
- ask if your LFS would take it back for store credit. If not, ask if you can simply return it
- otherwise, you could always list it up on Craigslist.

Either way, it would be good to just make sure that the new owner has a suitable aquarium to begin with.

With the angelfish gone, you will have one heell of a stocking option. I'll leave the rest to advise you on that.

You sound like you enjoy active fishes, so minimally you could get
- 6x same species Corydoras. They are super active and silly
- X number of guppies. I'm not familiar with their bioload
- maybe 1 dwarf gourami. Very active fellas. Although you MIGHT get some aggression issue from them towards guppies

 

I totally understand. Angels are really personable fish. I would be heartbroken if I had to rehome my Eddy x

 

Unfortunately I agree with Domer. With the tank size and a territorial angel, I am guessing there would always be trouble. I'd get more Cories. The same species would be best.

 

What species of cory do you have? Increase their school to 6 (all the same species).

Rehome the female guppy and get only males (so you're not overrun with fry). You could do 6-8 male guppies if you wanted?

A honey gourami trio would look great too! They're more peaceful than dwarf gouramis, and you can keep more than one in a tank together without having to worry about males fighting to the death.

 

Everyone lol. I had 6 corys at one point and then I had a horrible filter disaster. I had put a filter slip over the intake bc I previously had an angel who got stuck on it and died. So there was a hole in between the slip and intake and the little guys got in there and got mangled. It was horrible. I took it off since. I will probably bring him to the LFS. Personally I have no idea what the cories are but they are brown and black if that helps anyone. I got 3 of those after I lost 4 of my original silver cories to the accident. I now have 3 new brown and black and I remaining silver. I am not a fan of the brown and black (my dad bought them for me) so I really don't want to get more of the same species.

 

@ryone lol. I had 6 corys at one point and then I had a horrible filter disaster. I had put a filter slip over the intake bc I previously had an angel who got stuck on it and died. So there was a hole in between the slip and intake and the little guys got in there and got mangled. It was horrible. I took it off since. I will probably bring him to the LFS. Personally I have no idea what the cories are but they are brown and black if that helps anyone. I got 3 of those after I lost 4 of my original silver cories to the accident. I now have 3 new brown and black and I remaining silver. I am not a fan of the brown and black (my dad bought them for me) so I really don't want to get more of the same species.

They need to be in groups of six of their own species. If you don't like them anyway, I'd rehome all of the cories, and that'll give you room for a single or a pair of Bolivian rams.

 

Ok so could someone give me numbers here if I wanted to keep rams, gouramis, cories, guppies and keep my 3 platties.
Tell me how many I could keep of each.. I don't want to screw up again lol

Pretend the tank is free of all fish...

 

Ok so could someone give me numbers here if I wanted to keep rams, gouramis, cories, guppies and keep my 3 platties.
Tell me how many I could keep of each.. I don't want to screw up again lol

You could do:
1-2x Bolivian rams
3x Honey gouramis
3x Male platies
6-8x Male guppies

If you want cories, switch out the Bolivian rams for 6 individuals of one cory species. I wouldn't do both rams and cories in this tank size.

 

You could do:
1-2x Bolivian rams
3x Honey gouramis
3x Male platies
6-8x Male guppies

If you want cories, switch out the Bolivian rams for 6 individuals of one cory species. I wouldn't do both rams and cories in this tank size.

Thank you so much for all the help.. If I kept less guppies and did the rams and cories would that be ok? Also, are rams bottom dwellers? Is that why you think they won't mix with cories?

 

Thank you so much for all the help.. If I kept less guppies and did the rams and cories would that be ok? Also, are rams bottom dwellers? Is that why you think they won't mix with cories?

Yes, rams are bottom dwellers and the tank doesn't provide a lot of room for a ram territory and the cories. Cories don't have concepts of territories, so I wouldn't put them with the rams in this small of a tank. And the number of guppies doesn't affect the compatibility between rams and cories. Guppies occupy the top/middle level while cories and rams are on the bottom.

 

Yes, rams are bottom dwellers and the tank doesn't provide a lot of room for a ram territory and the cories. Cories don't have concepts of territories, so I wouldn't put them with the rams in this small of a tank. And the number of guppies doesn't affect the compatibility between rams and cories. Guppies occupy the top/middle level while cories and rams are on the bottom.

Yes I see your reasoning now. If I had known rams were bottom dwellers I wouldn't have even asked that lol. Well I appreciate everything. I have a much better idea to what my future fish family will look like!

Update: My angelfish is safe and sound in the hands of my LFS.. I brought home 4 honey gouramis. 3 female 1 male. I was going to get 3 but it was 4 for $10 so I was like why not. I will ease back on the guppies to make room for that 1 extra.

 

Thanks for the update! I think you will like the honeys. Be sure and have some floating plants for them. They don't have to be real. They sometimes sleep in them and the male will build bubble nests in them.
Have fun!

 

I hope my tank has a much better set up now

 

Hey guys quick question.. how many weeks/days before I can add some more fish. I don't want the bioload to go crazy and then have a whole new nitrate problem lol. I just added the 4 yesterday.

I also have another great update: I have 1 red wag platty that hid against a rock for 20+ hours a day, he only came out to eat and then hid again. I didn't know if he was sick or what, but the fact he lived for weeks doing this said otherwise. So I thought it was because he was deathly afraid to get attacked by my angel. Well today is the first day he came out to eat and saw the angel wasn't there. He has yet to return to his rock and now is happily swimming all around the tank. He must have been so afraid and stressed. He looks so excited his bully is gone. Its cute.

 

Hey guys quick question.. how many weeks/days before I can add some more fish. I don't want the bioload to go crazy and then have a whole new nitrate problem lol. I just added the 4 yesterday.

I also have another great update: I have 1 red wag platty that hid against a rock for 20+ hours a day, he only came out to eat and then hid again. I didn't know if he was sick or what, but the fact he lived for weeks doing this said otherwise. So I thought it was because he was deathly afraid to get attacked by my angel. Well today is the first day he came out to eat and saw the angel wasn't there. He has yet to return to his rock and now is happily swimming all around the tank. He must have been so afraid and stressed. He looks so excited his bully is gone. Its cute.

I'd wait at least a week, and test your parameters to make sure you're fully cycled between additions.

 

I have a 40 tall and I have 2 angels. I have a black veil tail and a white koi veil tail. At the store when I got the second fish I made sure to get one close to my current ones size. I misjudged. The black one is twice the size of the black one which I believe is a male. The koi appears female. Due to this aggression the white one hides and gets less food. One idea I had was to have my tall 3 gallon floating in the main tank having circulation and put the mean one in there until the white one grows. Any thoughts?

 

Put a divider in the tank and keep one angelfish on each side.

 

Ok I will ghetto mod one together. Maybe leave a small gap at the bottom for tetras and Corys?

 

Go over to Lowes and find the "Plaskolite Louvered Ceiling Panels" (AKA Egg Crate in the hobby). Comes in 24" x 48" panels. The tetras will be able to swim right thru it. Not sure how big your cories are - they will probably be able to swim right thru it.

 

Peppered Corys, might not be able to get it soon but will try.

 

How long have you had the new angel?

 

About a month now.

 

Have you redecorated the tank? The first angel already had territory claim (the whole tank) and the new one is invading. It’s possible if you rescape the tank so the territory is new, they may reestablish territories.

 

Oh ok will rescape when I get home (moving a fake driftwood and some java ferns.)

 

Yeah, since you introduced the new angel to the other angel´s territory it caused aggression. The black isn't mean, it happens with all fish. Normally fish of same species. If you had introduced both at same time there would be no aggresion. I recommend a re scape. If you had another tank like a 10 gallon, you could keep the black one in there for 2 weeks and then introduce him back to the re scaped tank with the new angel, that way they don't fight. But you would have to cycle the 10 gal. Divider could work too, they will get used to eachother and no longer fight. I recommend having 3 angels in a tank, that way aggression is divided into 3 parts and not 2. Could be too stressful for the non dominant angel.