Maybe I Suck At This (need Advice)

30g freshwater. Fully cycled HoB filter. Ammonia = 0, Nitrites = 0, Nitrates = never been above 80-usually at 40, pH = 7.0. 25-30% water change each saturday, sand surface vacuuming included.

I've had my tank for about 4 months now and I'm beginning to lose all faith in myself as a fish keeper. I'm completely disheartened. As far as I can tell I'm doing everything right. I've talked to several LFS, one of which I know for a fact it's more important to them to keep the fish healthy than keep their clients. I've poured over several books on the subject, wandered through various on-line forums, and I'm starting to think I'm just not cut out for/very good at this, much as I enjoy having the aquarium and adore my fish. So I need some advice. Let me start at the beginning, and I'm sorry if this gets long but I'm really at a crossroads here and this is the only thing I can think of for advice across the board.

So! My tank was given to me by a friend who's has it for several years but was unable to take it with her to her new place, so gave it to me, animal lover that I am. They came over, set it up, and put their fish back in. (2 rainbows, 2 serpae tetra, 2 candycane tetra, 1 lonely glowfish tetra. I, knowing nothing about aquarium care, dived head-first into learning. Books, forums, Fish stores, you name it. I decided to make sure the biofilter held steady after the move, so tested my water every day for a few weeks before adding any new fish in. Play it safe. I rehomed the rainbows to that fish store I mentioned in the first bit (they take all fish ppl can't keep/dont want whether you've bought there or not) because they were only half grown and already 3-4 inches and getting really aggressive from, after researching further, I concluded was too small a tank for them to swim happily in.

After that I stocked my tank pretty slowly on advice from favorite LFS, took home 5 fish at a time maybe every other week for a while. All low bio-load fish. Corydoras sterbaI and then some ember tetras, and then otocinclus once I had some algae for them to eat and felt more confident in my skills, as during my hours and hours of fish type research I learned the little guys are more difficult fish to keep healthy than my at-the-time-current corys and tetras. SO. During these first 2-3 months things went well. I had one cory die from fungus, but caught it in time to save everyone else in the tank, including the otos. So I was feeling pretty confident. I kept my otos alive thru a bid disease! Go me!

All was well again for several weeks and then suddenly I lost 3 fish for no apparent reason. Tests were all in good ranges, everyone was eating well as far as I could tell, I'd licked my over-feeding habit. A cpl days later I noticed two of my ember tetra and one of the serpae were SUPER pale, so I tested my water AGAIN afraid of an ammonia spike. Nothing. Next day I had another dead fish. This morning I pulled yet another out.

I am at my wit's end, my LFS says I sound like I'm doing everything right. The books seem to say I'm doing it right. The forums say I'm doing it right, according to my having read nearly all the forums (that I trust) nearly all the way through at this point. I even took all my decor (sans the plants, all of which are plastic or silk and made for aquariums) out cause one of the corys cut himself on something and another lost a barb to something and I figured, better safe than dead. I put a cpl mugs in for hiding places (until I can get my hands on some slate to build them some nice natural hidey holes with) after super extra rinsing and then soaking in old tank water for a cpl days and then scrubbing them down with a brand new toothbrush in NEW old tank water to get anything left over off them.

I just don't get it! I'm starting to think, that although I love them and seem to doing everything right, maybe I'm not cut out for this. It'd be easier if I was the sort of person who thinks "well, it's just a fish" when one dies, but that's just not me. I go into insta-anxiety mode worrying about the rest of the fish and mourning for the lost life. No matter how small, that's still a lost life. Furthermore, a life I had care of. I know that sometimes fish die and its out of our hands, nature and all. Etc etc. But even that has me wondering.

It just feels like despite my best afforts and my hours and days of heavy research and learning, I'm really messing up. Somehow. So maybe I just suck at fishkeeping. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this. What else could it be, right?

I feel like 4 months of random deaths for no apparent reason (besides the one fungus death) is enough to show that I'm not good at fishkeeping. Sometimes you love something and wanna be good at soemthign and you just. Aren't. So I thought I'd bring it to my favorite fish forum. What do you guys think? Should I keep trying and possibly kill some more fish accidentally? Should I save my fish and rehome? Can you share anything with me from your early days of fishkeeping? Is losing fish randomly just a normal part of fishkeeping? If so, how do you cope with that? I'm really at a loss and I feel so disheartened and SO so bad for the fish.

Help? Advice? Feelings? Anything. Even brutal, scathing, honesty.

 

Did you buy a new filter or did you use the filter they gave you?

 

Oh, the one they gave me. They set up all their stuff as-is, just moved in a couple houses down.

 

Oh, the one they gave me. They set up all their stuff as-is, just moved in a couple houses down.

Maybe there's something in the filter they forgot about or didn't know about and now it's slowly killing all your fish. I would recommend maybe getting a new filter. But you should probably wait for someone more knowledgable to reply.

 

Don't beat yourself up. It'll work it. There's a few things though.

1. Your nitrate is definitely too high. You should keep it under 20 ppm. 60-80 is enough to hurt sensitive fish. Do a 50% water change next time, then do another 50% water change a couple hours later. That will get things under control. This will also keep the algae down. Look into hanging Pothos plants out the top of the tank. This will also help as they utilize tons of nitrate as fertilizer.
2. Make sure your schools are big enough. Yours currently aren't for tetras. They need at least 5 or 6 per species. So maybe only have a couple schools of fish in a 30G tank and rehome the others. Believe it or not, this can actually kill fish... These species need schools or else they'll be stressed and prone to disease/organ failure.
3. Be careful where you buy your fish from. I live in San Diego and there's only 3 stores I'll go to because so many places don't treat their fish well. I don't go to Petco or Petsmart. Petco USED to have healthy fish but I think they stopped training their employees on caring for fish and it has gotten bad. It's actually really sad.

Random deaths do happen. Obviously not as much as it has been happening to you. But if you do the 3 things I suggested, the random deaths will be MUCH less frequent.

I have a 75G community tank and probably have a fish die every 6 months or so. Some die of old age where they lose mobility and get "off balance". It takes a month or so for them to pass. But some just randomly die. It's just like how people get cancer or have heart attacks... But it definitely shouldn't be frequent.

Good luck!

 

One potential thing to look out for is different water conditions from your friends house to yours. Are you on city or well water? I assume you’re both the same, but if one of you is softening water and the other isn’t, that sudden change could stress fish out and cause some of your issues.

It sounds like you’re doing plenty of research and will get this figured out.

 

And just to give you peace of mind everybody kills their first fish because almost everybody just dives in the deep end without knowing All the esentials and important things. Like when I got my first fish(I was an idiot) I got a an oscar and a common pleco ya the ones that get 2 feet long in a 40 gal long and did water changes once every two weeks now, the oscar died donated the pleco and quit for about a year and now I have 2 juvinile angels in a 40 gal and planning on keeping just 1 in the forty gal with some other fish that I haven't decided on yet And also now I do a 30 percent water change every 3-4 days. Hope this brings relief

 

Don't beat yourself up. It'll work it. There's a few things though.

1. Your nitrate is definitely too high. You should keep it under 20 ppm. 60-80 is enough to hurt sensitive fish. Do a 50% water change next time, then do another 50% water change a couple hours later. That will get things under control. This will also keep the algae down. Look into hanging Pothos plants out the top of the tank. This will also help as they utilize tons of nitrate as fertilizer.
2. Make sure your schools are big enough. Yours currently aren't for tetras. They need at least 5 or 6 per species. So maybe only have a couple schools of fish in a 30G tank and rehome the others. Believe it or not, this can actually kill fish... These species need schools or else they'll be stressed and prone to disease/organ failure.
3. Be careful where you buy your fish from. I live in San Diego and there's only 3 stores I'll go to because so many places don't treat their fish well. I don't go to Petco or Petsmart. Petco USED to have healthy fish but I think they stopped training their employees on caring for fish and it has gotten bad. It's actually really sad.

Random deaths do happen. Obviously not as much as it has been happening to you. But if you do the 3 things I suggested, the random deaths will be MUCH less frequent.

I have a 75G community tank and probably have a fish die every 6 months or so. Some die of old age where they lose mobility and get "off balance". It takes a month or so for them to pass. But some just randomly die. It's just like how people get cancer or have heart attacks... But it definitely shouldn't be frequent.

Good luck!

Woah, under 20? Why... have I read various places that up to 40 is acceptable? Well shoot! Bad info will happen, I guess. I'll do that right away. I'll look into the Pothos plants too, but I have a hooded tank so maybe growing something out the top wouldn't... work? I'll def look into that though, my fav LFS is VERY into planted tanks and they love to help ppl start in on that process. I've neeeeever bought from Petco or Petsmart, or any chain actually. For all those reasons you said. That was one of the first things I learned beyond the nitrogen cycle, in fact. To that end, I did a ton of looking into customer scores and yelp and all the things I could think of to decide which of the smaller local stores to trust. All my fish I bought myself have come from that one store I've mentioned a couple of times that I just adore. (Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA, if anyone is interested/curious).

I surprisingly haven't lost a single one of the "Random Tetra 5", as I call them, that my friend gave with the tank. I guess she didn't know about them needing schools (or was under the misconception that any tetras would school together), and I've not grown the schools myself because none of them are fish that I want to keep long-term. I should definitely rehome them, then. I had been considering it already, after learning more. My embers I had in a school of 10, down to 8 atm, and my corys also, though they are down to 9 atm. I keep seeing conflicting things about otos and whether they want a school or not. I assume they do as they live in the thousands in the wild, but I know that more than a few can be hard to feed in a tank so I was fearful of getting as many of them as I wanted to.

Thanks so much!

One potential thing to look out for is different water conditions from your friends house to yours. Are you on city or well water? I assume you’re both the same, but if one of you is softening water and the other isn’t, that sudden change could stress fish out and cause some of your issues.

It sounds like you’re doing plenty of research and will get this figured out.

I had thought of that initially because of pH issues that I had at first. But they lived in the same building in this same apartment complex that I still live in. I DID, veeery slowly, add crushed coral to the filter in a media bag over a period of about a month because my pH kept sinking a day after water changes, and I was careful not to raise it more than .3 each 2 days, based on what I'd read about changing pH needing to be very slow. I found out my friend had been using chemical pH 7.0 as well as chemical algaecide and I'm trying not to touch any of that stuff. Ho-hum. Thank you!

And just to give you peace of mind everybody kills their first fish because almost everybody just dives in the deep end without knowing All the esentials and important things. Like when I got my first fish(I was an idiot) I got a an oscar and a common pleco ya the ones that get 2 feet long in a 40 gal long and did water changes once every two weeks now, the oscar died donated the pleco and quit for about a year and now I have 2 juvinile angels in a 40 gal and planning on keeping just 1 in the forty gal with some other fish that I haven't decided on yet And also now I do a 30 percent water change every 3-4 days. Hope this brings relief

Ha! Thanks. I just feel like a proper jerk(read that as a stronger word) about every fish I lose.

 

I'm wondering about pH swings at water changes? Have you checked your tap pH after letting it sit in an open container for a day to gas off?

If you're adjusting pH with crushed coral, at water change there will potentially be a quick swing before the fresh water is filtered through the coral. Everything I've read says steady pH is more important than perfect.

I'm certainly no expert, but I hope you can find success as the hobby is so much fun and rewarding!

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what's happening with your tank but I can't believe its your nitrates. Mine are NEVER under 40, lol. And that's decades of fish keeping.

Sometimes when you're reading too much, you're messing with the tank too much. Chasing a PH, a temp, a GH or a KH can be killer on fish. Make sure you're not changing your filter material, make sure you're using a water conditioner like Prime if you are on city water. Make sure you're keeping your fish in schools that are big enough and not too many different species. In my opinion, you don't have big enough schools to keep the fish from being stressed. The species you have would be better with 6+ of their own kind. Other than those basics, there could possibly be something funny going on in the tank, but that would be my last guess.

 

Woah, under 20? Why... have I read various places that up to 40 is acceptable? Well shoot! Bad info will happen, I guess. I'll do that right away. I'll look into the Pothos plants too, but I have a hooded tank so maybe growing something out the top wouldn't... work? I'll def look into that though, my fav LFS is VERY into planted tanks and they love to help ppl start in on that process. I've neeeeever bought from Petco or Petsmart, or any chain actually. For all those reasons you said. That was one of the first things I learned beyond the nitrogen cycle, in fact. To that end, I did a ton of looking into customer scores and yelp and all the things I could think of to decide which of the smaller local stores to trust. All my fish I bought myself have come from that one store I've mentioned a couple of times that I just adore. (Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA, if anyone is interested/curious).

I surprisingly haven't lost a single one of the "Random Tetra 5", as I call them, that my friend gave with the tank. I guess she didn't know about them needing schools (or was under the misconception that any tetras would school together), and I've not grown the schools myself because none of them are fish that I want to keep long-term. I should definitely rehome them, then. I had been considering it already, after learning more. My embers I had in a school of 10, down to 8 atm, and my corys also, though they are down to 9 atm. I keep seeing conflicting things about otos and whether they want a school or not. I assume they do as they live in the thousands in the wild, but I know that more than a few can be hard to feed in a tank so I was fearful of getting as many of them as I wanted to.

Thanks so much!

40 ppm is the highest it should ever get but should aI'm for 20 or lower. At 44ppm, time for a while after change and some good old Seachem Prime.

 

I'm wondering about pH swings at water changes? Have you checked your tap pH after letting it sit in an open container for a day to gas off?

If you're adjusting pH with crushed coral, at water change there will potentially be a quick swing before the fresh water is filtered through the coral. Everything I've read says steady pH is more important than perfect.

I'm certainly no expert, but I hope you can find success as the hobby is so much fun and rewarding!

This is a thing I had not considered. I don't think it's what happening, though based on the pH tests I did when I was having the issues. The pH strait out the tap is 7, then drops after a day to 6.6. The new water in the tank is moved through the crushed coral before it has a chance to drop. THEORETICALLY, of course. I chose to alter the pH specifically for my otocinclusi, which need a strict 6.8-7.2 by most accounts, to thrive. The coral also keeps my hardness at the levels I want. Now that you mention it though? I'm thinking it'd be a good idea to mix the crushed coral into the substrate instead of taking up space in the filter, now that I have the amount stabilized.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's happening with your tank but I can't believe its your nitrates. Mine are NEVER under 40, lol. And that's decades of fish keeping.

Sometimes when you're reading too much, you're messing with the tank too much. Chasing a PH, a temp, a GH or a KH can be killer on fish. Make sure you're not changing your filter material, make sure you're using a water conditioner like Prime if you are on city water. Make sure you're keeping your fish in schools that are big enough and not too many different species. In my opinion, you don't have big enough schools to keep the fish from being stressed. The species you have would be better with 6+ of their own kind. Other than those basics, there could possibly be something funny going on in the tank, but that would be my last guess.

Check and check and check. lol. I'm careful about my filter media, Prime is exactly the conditioner that I use, aaaaaaand I've decided to rehome my lonely tetras. And just keep trying.

 

I keep otocinclus with a pH of 7.8 and they are healthy and happy. Don't fight your pH. Stable pH is more important than hitting a specific number. Most fish will adapt just fine. Often a LFS has similar water condition s anyway and it would never hurt to ask them what theirs is to get an idea. You can acclimate fish to the pH of your water slowly and they should be fine. Some may not tolerate certain ranges well, but most do. The sudden swings are what is more dangerous for them.

 

Pothos help with nitrates if you give them proper light. Having some place for denitrifiers to grow helps too. This tank has had 5 ppm steady for several months now after struggling with uncontrollable nitrates for a year

Pothos help with nitrates if you give them proper light. Having some place for denitrifiers to grow helps too. This tank has had 5 ppm steady for several months now after struggling with uncontrollable nitrates for a year

 

Woah, under 20? Why... have I read various places that up to 40 is acceptable? Well shoot! Bad info will happen, I guess. I'll do that right away. I'll look into the Pothos plants too, but I have a hooded tank so maybe growing something out the top wouldn't... work? I'll def look into that though, my fav LFS is VERY into planted tanks and they love to help ppl start in on that process. I've neeeeever bought from Petco or Petsmart, or any chain actually. For all those reasons you said. That was one of the first things I learned beyond the nitrogen cycle, in fact. To that end, I did a ton of looking into customer scores and yelp and all the things I could think of to decide which of the smaller local stores to trust. All my fish I bought myself have come from that one store I've mentioned a couple of times that I just adore. (Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA, if anyone is interested/curious).

I surprisingly haven't lost a single one of the "Random Tetra 5", as I call them, that my friend gave with the tank. I guess she didn't know about them needing schools (or was under the misconception that any tetras would school together), and I've not grown the schools myself because none of them are fish that I want to keep long-term. I should definitely rehome them, then. I had been considering it already, after learning more. My embers I had in a school of 10, down to 8 atm, and my corys also, though they are down to 9 atm. I keep seeing conflicting things about otos and whether they want a school or not. I assume they do as they live in the thousands in the wild, but I know that more than a few can be hard to feed in a tank so I was fearful of getting as many of them as I wanted to.

Thanks so much!



I had thought of that initially because of pH issues that I had at first. But they lived in the same building in this same apartment complex that I still live in. I DID, veeery slowly, add crushed coral to the filter in a media bag over a period of about a month because my pH kept sinking a day after water changes, and I was careful not to raise it more than .3 each 2 days, based on what I'd read about changing pH needing to be very slow. I found out my friend had been using chemical pH 7.0 as well as chemical algaecide and I'm trying not to touch any of that stuff. Ho-hum. Thank you!



Ha! Thanks. I just feel like a proper jerk(read that as a stronger word) about every fish I lose.

Yaa under 20 is ideal. Having your nitrates shoot up to 30 or 40 is no problem. Like if you can't do a water change for 2 weeks because of a vacation, illness, or are just busy with life, nothing bad will happen. But prolonged high nitrate is definitely not good for your fish.

And I have hooded tanks too. If you have the plastic hoods, most of them have little cut outs for where you can put the filter and tubing. Break those off and put the plants in there. Or just close the lid on the pothos plant stems.

Again, this is just a rule of thumb about the schools. Sometimes one off fish will do fine but they'll deff do better and be happier in large schools. For example, I have a dwarf gourami (who do best solo), and then schools of pearl danios and neon tetras. I also have 2 rummynose tetras and 1 white cloud mountain minnow. I'm not planning to build out their schools and are just letting them live out the rest of their lives in my tank. I've had them forever and I had schools a few years ago, but the others have died of old age. These individuals have been solo for about a year and are doing fine. But they would do much better and be happier if they had a big school. But I am not re-stocking these fish and they'll be happier solo than being re-homed to Petco.... So you should absolutely increase the school size of the fish you want to keep.

 

Woah, under 20? Why... have I read various places that up to 40 is acceptable?

There's a lot of "ifs" and "buts" around nitrate toxicity. A lot of people with planted tanks, for e.g., might fertilise sufficient nitrate (using potassium nitrate) up to 30 in order to supply sufficient nitrogen for plants. But 30 ppm nitrate as a result of ferts is very different from 30 ppm nitrate as a result of nitrogen cycle: the latter is associated with lots of accumulated mulm and organic particulate matter which isn't great for fish.

I have a hooded tank so maybe growing something out the top wouldn't... work?

If you don't want to use plants, you can use filter media like Seachem Purigen or Denitrate. It traps a lot of organic matter to ensure it isn't broken down into ammonia (and nitrate down the line). Purigen/Denitrate can also be recharged using bleach.

You can also do larger water changes: one 50% water change is equal to approximately 3 separate 25% water changes.

 

Pothos help with nitrates if you give them proper light. Having some place for denitrifiers to grow helps too. This tank has had 5 ppm steady for several months now after struggling with uncontrollable nitrates for a year





View attachment 472101

Is your pothos just growing out of the water?

 

Is your pothos just growing out of the water?

I stuck the stems into a hollow log decoration and the leaves just drape over the side of the tank. The log keeps algae from growing on roots and I also stick a bubbler in the log to aerate the roots. Each stem grows a leaf a week. if you have a lid you can stick the stems in where the tubes and wires come out.
sometimes I just stick the stems right in the tank

 

Beautiful. I tried it before but they never took off. Just put some more in. Hope they can look half as good as yours!

 

Wow guys, this pothos trick is amazing, and looks amazing too. My sister is always picking starts off her's, so I drove up and stole a couple of the starts that had rooted and haven't had a problem with Nitrate since. No fish losses either. I dunno if that was because the Nitrates or because my inexperience, but either way; YAY! Thanks so SO much. You lot are the best.

 

Oh no, those nitrates are really high. No more than maybe 5, and that means a water change is needed right away!

 

Oh no, those nitrates are really high. No more than maybe 5, and that means a water change is needed right away!

Check the last post, nitrate problem is solved by now.

 

Wow guys, this pothos trick is amazing, and looks amazing too. My sister is always picking starts off her's, so I drove up and stole a couple of the starts that had rooted and haven't had a problem with Nitrate since. No fish losses either. I dunno if that was because the Nitrates or because my inexperience, but either way; YAY! Thanks so SO much. You lot are the best.

Congrats! I'm glad things are working out. Pothos is amazing for consuming nitrate. It looks really cool too.

And I'm sure it was a combo. As long as you keep those nitrates under 40, but ideally under 20 the fish will be much less stressed and healthier. The bigger schools will help a ton too.

Good luck with everything!

 

I am a huge fan of the Pothos plant. I have a beautiful pothos in a large pot on our deck that I maintain for its beauty and for cuttings when my friends need them. With patience, you can acclimate them to grow fully submerged in your tank. They grow much more slowly underwater but they make a lovely addition to any planted aquarium.

 

I am a huge fan of the Pothos plant. I have a beautiful pothos in a large pot on our deck that I maintain for its beauty and for cuttings when my friends need them. With patience, you can acclimate them to grow fully submerged in your tank. They grow much more slowly underwater but they make a lovely addition to any planted aquarium.

I am actually trying to do this right now. A little plantlet started growing off the roots of the pothos I have growing out the top of my snail jar so was already growing totally under water. I clipped it off and planted it in my 10 gallon tank. It is still really small but at least hasn't died yet so I am holding out hope for it.

BTW: The snail jar has no filter other than the pothos and an air stone. The perimeters stay perfect and the water stays crystal clear. I am having to constantly cut back the pothos as it grows out of control and the Ramshorn snails breed like crazy in there. There are hundreds of snails in a 2.5 gallon jar and the pothos keeps their water perfect.

I am so happy to hear that it is working so well for you AbstractWitch

 

I am actually trying to do this right now. A little plantlet started growing off the roots of the pothos I have growing out the top of my snail jar so was already growing totally under water. I clipped it off and planted it in my 10 gallon tank. It is still really small but at least hasn't died yet so I am holding out hope for it. AbstractWitch

That is actually the best way to acclimate for submerged growth. CONGRATS !!!

 

Wow guys, this pothos trick is amazing, and looks amazing too. My sister is always picking starts off her's, so I drove up and stole a couple of the starts that had rooted and haven't had a problem with Nitrate since. No fish losses either. I dunno if that was because the Nitrates or because my inexperience, but either way; YAY! Thanks so SO much. You lot are the best.

Yay!