Making The Jump To Sw, What Do I Actually Need Question | Page 6

Discussion in 'Saltwater Beginners' started by nikm128, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Somehow someone got to it before me even though it was only posted ~48 hours ago
    I guess I'll have to find something else or get the unstocked 60 long
     
  2. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    Don't feel bad, it took me 3 months to land my current 90 gallon setup. It's much better to wait and get what you really want though then to settle and see what you really want at the price you want after it's too late.
     
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Are you familiar with the brand Red Sea? There's a Red Sea 250 max (66g) that comes with heaters at least (on the website it seems like the filter and powerheads are built in?) some coral and some fish. I'm not sure what fish exactly since it's not listed but I saw an occellaris clown for sure. It's listed for 700, do you know if that's a good deal?

    Here's a link
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019
  4. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    If he is selling everything with it and it isn't scratched up or leaking that is a GREAT DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!! AI Prime HDs are great lights (I have it's bigger brother the Hydra 26HDs over my tank). They are fully programmable and good lights for growing coral to boot. I paid $488 for my 90 gallon setup, BUT it didn't come with a top, tank heater, rock, substrate, lights, powerheads, or any fish or corals.

    The 38 inch length will make it a bit more limiting for stock than a 4 foot tank but you could still get some fun options for it (ie small Wrasses, Pygmy Angel).
     
  5. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    That's great then! My one concern is replacing those T5 bulbs. From what I understand the bulbs each have their own spectrum/purpose so finding each one might be difficult, then I'm not sure how long it's been running (I can ask of course) so the bulbs could burn out in a few months
     
  6. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    I must've missed the bit about the T5 bulbs, so is he running a hybrid fixture as the AI Prime HD is definitely an LED fixture.
     
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    According to the website it's T5? unless they managed to come up with an LED system good enough to support corals.
    I can't find the link right now but there's a 5 minute video of them explaining the setup if you google Red Sea max 250. I could've sworn they said T5

    I think the moonlight part is LEDs
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019
  8. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    The description in the ad specifically lists AI Prime HD LED lights and I cn tell you for 100% sure that the AI Prime HD is definitely an LED light. Most of the Red Sea Kits come with AI lights these days. So unless the guy messed up on the description they are definitely a nice LED light and not T5.
     
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Maybe he got rid of the lights it came with? I admit I don't know lots about all these different lights, but I swear it says T5 around the 45 second mark here:
     
  10. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    That's probably because it's an old video. T5 lights were very popular 6-7 years ago before the higher end LEDs came out. Red Sea has since switched to AI LED lights for their setups. In the ad he specifically mentions having AI Prime HD LED Lighting and that's a pretty specific thing to mention.
     
  11. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Oh :banghead: I should've just looked a the video date. Thanks for setting it straight
     
  12. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    Not a problem. I was trying to figure out where you got the idea of T5 lights from.
     
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Well once I can figure out if I can make it fit in the back of my van I'll probably go for since that's about how much it would cost me just to set up the 55 cube
    Thanks for all the help so far too
     
  14. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    Not a problem, I think you will be much happier with it.
     
  15. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Do you think it would be a good idea to setup my 20 as salt first so I can give myself a practice run of sorts? I'm sure I'd miss out on the 250 max, but it's a little different to drop 700 at once instead of over a month or two. I'd also feel terrible if I cost the fish their lives by just jumping in like that.
    I know I wouldn't be able to have a lot of the fish I listed above, but I think the simpler route might be the better one in this case
     
  16. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    With any setup there are Pros and Cons so I will try and do my best to cover them here. The 20 gallon greatly depends on whether or not it's a 20 Long or a regular 20 gallon tank. If it's a regular 20 gallon the stocking options for fish diminish a fair bit since they won't have the 30 inch length for running room. The good news is that the standard 20 will be cheaper to light as most of the better lights cover a 24 inch cube.

    Okay here are the Pros and Cons of both setups:

    20 gallon

    Pros:

    Cheaper to setup initially
    Less Equipment to learn how to deal with to start out and maintain
    Less time spent cleaning glass and equipment
    Less money invested if something goes wrong or you decide the hobby isn't for you
    Ability to start the tank from scratch with your own selection of fish and corals rather than just inheriting and modifying what is already established

    Cons:

    Greatly reduced stocking options for fish and you won't be able to have as many

    Cost of initial setup will be more than you think (keep in mind you will have to buy at least dry rock, a light in the $100-$130 range if you want corals, powerhead, tank heater, possibly upgrade hob filter, sand, etc.)

    Very likely that you will get bored with a smaller setup with just a few smaller fish and very little of what you buy for the 20 gallon will transfer to a significant upgrade. When I upgraded from my 36 gallon bowfront to my 90 gallon, my rock and my powerhead were the only things that transferred over. This means a significant amount of money will be wasted with the upgrade

    The 20 gallon will be much less forgiving of errors (ie increase in salinity due to evaporation, accidental overfeeding)

    The 20 gallon would need to be started from scratch vs the larger setup which stands a high chance of maintaining it's cycle if you keep the rockwork submerged other than the actual transfer itself.

    Even at $130 the LED light you would buy wouldn't hold a candle to the AI Prime HD in terms of programming options (the AI has built in wifi programming for a timer, ramp up and down and many different ways to configure multiple color and spectrum channels). Of course you could always just buy a single AI Prime HD and then add another one or two when you upgrade to a bigger tank, but at $200 each for the new lights that would negate the savings of the smaller 20 gallon pretty quickly.

    With a 20 gallon tank you are more likely to experience aggression issues among fish (clownfish can get pretty territorial once established). Larger space not only means more fish and fish possibilities but fewer issues with aggression.

    For the Pros and Cons of the Red Sea setup, just flip flop the Pros and Cons above. It's a tough call on the issue of starting right off the bat with a good sized setup and learning a bunch of equipment at significant expense up front and weighing that with a 20 gallon setup that you could easily outgrow and then end up throwing away a bunch of money in th upgrade process.

    For me I would definitely go for the Red Sea setup over setting up a spare 20 gallon tank, but I also have the hindsight to know that I am committed to the hobby for at least a while and can keep up with the maintenance requirements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  17. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    Gosh hecking darn, it's gone too:banghead:
    Maybe that 60 long no one wants since there's no stand will be a good idea after all. I wouldn't have to scramble to get it setup quickly either, and I'm getting a job to give myself more wiggle room. Assuming it doesn't get sold now that I'm actually thinking about it, it comes with everything but the stand and fish.
     
  18. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    Just make sure it doesn't have any scratches or leaks. Not having a stand is an issue, but IMHO NOT having fish is actually a plus. You can time to set it up and make sure that everything is stable before any fish goes in, no worries over an established fish taking issue with a new addition or having to get rid of a fish you don't want or isn't suitable for your tank long term. You would be amazed at how many idiots there are who do zero research into what tanks are suitable for a given fish long term. They just see one that looks cool and buy it.
     
  19. OP
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    nikm128

    nikm128Fishlore VIPMember

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    I definitely will do that, I think my craftsman skills are adequate to build the stand, if not I have plenty of people who can help me with it. The lack of fish is definitely a plus, that why I said I wouldn't be scrambling to set it up once I got it home.
    Like the yellow tang in that 60 cube?
     
  20. Jesterrace

    JesterraceWell Known MemberMember

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    The only issue with not setting it up right away is that you will lose the cycle that is currently being maintained. Also what filtration is it using? If it doesn't have a stand it is unlikely to be setup for sump and that is a problem on a 4 foot long tank, unless it's a larger size all in one unit with one build into the back.

    As for the Tang, that is exactly correct. Many people buy them at 2-3 inches and assume they will be fine long term in a smaller tank, not realizing that they can get 8 inches long and 10 to 12 inches tall when fully grown. They are also one of the more aggressive tangs and once they get about 4-5 inches long they hit maturity and turn more aggressive. I witnessed this first hand in my 90 gallon when my half grown YT tried to claim the entire tank as his own after a month. Took a chunk out of my Coral Beauty Dwarf Angel and repeatedly cut it with it's tail scalpel. I gave that jerk the boot and replaced it with a one spot foxface and have been much happier since.
     
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