Main tank in trouble Important

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Speedy, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Hello
    I have a problem and I have to medicate big tank before it gets worse. Here is some info about my tank to let everybody know this is not a water quality issue...
    The tank is cycled---Ammonia-0,nitrite 0,nitrate is at 10. Temp is 80 and ph is at 7.6. I do water changes every 5 to 7 days of 25% to 40% with gravel vacuuming as well with the water changes.
    This is going to be a long post and I apologize in advance.
    All my problems started in August of 2012 when I purchased some cardinals that I did not quarantine before putting them in the big tank that was a huge mistake. Anyway they all looked ok but then they developed Ick and everything has went down hill from there. I wanted to try and save them without hurting my filter bed or my otocinclus or my corydora's so I decided to use heat as a way to kill the Ick. This is what I did I turned the heat up to 86 and left it there for 2 weeks and every 2 to 3 days I think it was I vacuumed out a 3rd of the tank every time I done a water change. Anyway I thought things where ok the heat treatment did get rid of the Ick but later the fish started getting sick I have lost Platy's and Corydora's to not eating laying on bottom,breathing hard, some at surface some not,pale,weak,clamped fins and some flashing. I thought at first it was just stress from having the Ick and going through the heat treatment but that just isn't the case. I have lost some Cardinals too with some different symptoms like the bubble on eye and white stuff on fins as well as some bloating or something which I think all this is tied in with the flukes. You know all the bacterial and fungus secondary infections.

    Almost everybody in the tank is effected in some way. I had a cardinal that got a bubble on his eye and some kind of white stuff on his fins. I had a corydora die from fin rot and some die with just breathing hard and pale laying on bottom and to weak to swim to the top of the tank. All the fish that have gotten sick I have took them out and tried to save them in a quarantine container hanging on the tank but they have all died. To make things worse I had some fish that where fighting which couldn't help on the stress they where already under but I have since removed those fish.

    Ok I'm thinking it is gill flukes and skin flukes and I'm thinking about using Quick Cure but I'm concerned about my corydora's and my Otocinclus. Has anybody use this medicine half strength with this fish? At this point I'm not concerned about the filter bed but my fish. If I don't do something I'm going to lose more fish. The only fish in the tank that doesn't seemed effected is the Harlequin tetras and the Honey Gourami.
    I have also tried the Prazi-pro and it didn't work, so I need to find something else that will kill gill flukes(Dactylogyrus) and skin flukes(gyrodactyylus). Please if anybody had used Quick Cure on Otocinclus and Corydora's half strength. OR if anybody might know something else with formalin or malachite green in that might work please share with me.

    I'm really thinking about getting out of the fish aquariums for a while after all these fish are gone because I have had so many problems. I'm about over it all!

    SO please help if you can I would really appreciate it very much!
    Thanks my friends!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  2. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    I would use the quick cure at half strength, and if that doesn't work try again at full strength.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Thanks Jaysee
    Well, this is the second day of treatment at half strength but the fish aren't any better except I have noticed none of them are flashing so at least it helped that.
    I think 2 other fish may have some kind of bacterial thing going on brought on by the parasites and the fighting.
    One of my cory cats is really sick he is so pale,weak and breathing hard. He is not improved at all. He is not eating either. He tries to swim to the top of the tank but he just can't make it poor baby and 1 of my cardinals is very fat but I'm not sure if she is eating or not. I think it is bacterial with her too. Not sure what though.
    I have the 3rd dose of half strength tomorrow and I think I will do another treatment cycle on Saturday after I do a 25% percent water change unless someone freaks out from the Quick Cure but no one is freaking out so far.
    I think after the 2nd treatment cycle with the Quick Cure I'm going to go with the T.C. Tetracycline thinking maybe the cory cat might have Bacterial gill disease cause nothing else I can think of would fit his behavior.
    I have also added some extra oxygen to the tank for them and I'm also leaving off the lights, I hope my java moss can last 6 days without light.
    Anyway I will try and post some pictures of the Cardinal and Cory Cat tomorrow if they make it that long.
    If anybody has any ideas of what bacterial infection that might cory cat or cardinal might have please let me know.
    Thanks so much.....;D
     




  4. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Java moss can last 6 weeks without light :)


    It sounds like you've got a few battles going on. I hope things settle down for you.
     




  5. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Well, that's good to hear but if I lost it I would definitely buy more I love it.

    Yeah I just hope I don't lose to many more fish. I will just have to do what I can and wait and see.

    I will put up some updates to anyone that would like to keep up with it.

    Thanks again Jaysee! Have a great night!
     
  6. Jaysee

    JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    good luck!
     
  7. AlyeskaGirlFishlore VIPMember

    Make sure you have plenty of surface movement for O2 while treating with meds.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Thank you!
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember


    Thanks Alyeskagirl
    I did add some extra oxygen I hope it will be enough. I will watch my fish and if any starts gasping at the top I will add more. ;D
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Hi all just giving an update to the people that is following this thread:
    Well, I have lost another panda platy and my cardinal and Julii are not any better. The only thing better is I don't see any fish flashing.
    I stopped the Quick Cure after the full treatment because it wasn't helping. I was going for the TC Tetracycline but my local pet store didn't have it at the time.
    So I went for the General Cure which haven't helped so far and I started on Saturday I'm going to finish the treatment and then try the TC Tetracycline which they got in at the pet store after I bought the General Cure...Grrr! All this time I was thinking it has to be some kind of parasite but now I'm not so sure and it sure doesn't look like fungus at all so it has to be bacterial or that is what I'm thinking....
    My poor little Julii is so sick I honestly don't know how he has made it this long but he is still alive so I'm thinking about going ahead and taking him out tomorrow if he makes it and treating him with the TC Tetracycline and if that doesn't do it I'm at a lose to what the problem is.
    Not looking forward to the mess it will make in my big tank but it is a very good antibiotic so I guess you have to take the good with the bad.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Here is a picture of my sweet very sick little Julii I decided to get him out and try the T.C. Tetracycline because he is just to bad to wait can't believe he is still alive my little poor baby has suffered for a while:
    IMG_1109.jpg

    Tried to get a picture of the Cardinal Tetra but couldn't get the picture good enough to show what I'm seeing. I did notice today she is swimming now with her head down. I will treat her in the container as well when I do a water change Wednesday evening. Still trying to make my mind up about treating the main tank. If it is bacterial should I treat the other fish even if they are not showing any signs. The only thing the other fish where doing was flashing?
    If no response I think I better just in case....Thanks to everybody that cared! ;)
     
  12. flyinggogoValued MemberMember

    I would treat the whole tank, it sounds like all the fish are potentially in danger. antibiotics seem like the way to go. The only thing i've ever treated any of my tanks with is melefix and pimafix so i am not sure what u should do either. i think the potential danger to your cats outweighs the risks of medicating them, but as always good luck to you.
     
  13. Musey

    MuseyWell Known MemberMember

    At this point I would use Tetra Parasite Guard as directed to wipe out what ever parasite(s) are plaguing your tank. I would do the full course of treatment, TWICE (Dose the tank, wait 48 hours, do a water change and dose the tank again, wait anther 48 hours, and do a water change). Make sure to remove any carbon if you are using it before you do the treatment because carbon will remove the medications from the water.

    After doing the Tetra Parasite Guard treatment TWICE, I would do a large water change. Then, I would start treating with Melafix and Primafix to mop up any secondary infections or fungus going on. I would dose daily for 7 days.

    Finish up by doing another large water change at the end and putting some fresh carbon into the filter to remove any left over medications.

    Good luck to you and I hope you can save your fishies!
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm going to treat the whole tank but not sure if I will use the T.C quite yet. I still think they are some kind of parasites in there because I saw my Honey Gourami acting funny. But I'm not sure if I should use the General Cure again or go to something else. To many decisions if you ask me...lol I don't like to treat unless I have to and in this case I think I need to...Thanks for trying to help. ;)
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Hello Musey
    I have used the Parasite Clear by Jungle and I did not like how my fish reacted to it. It is the same as the Parasite Guard by Tetra just they switched over to Tetra or that is what I read. I would really be worried using it with my Oto's and Cory Cats. If I used it I might try it half strength.

    I might go another round of the General Cure I just haven't made up my mind yet.

    Not really sure at this point what I will end up doing. Thanks for your help...;)
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    This is an update and I need help please:
    It turns out that I went to do a 25% water change and vacuum gravel when I noticed my Julii cory cat just developed fungus so I switched from the T.C. to Maracyn this is so nuts I'm going crazy....He is in a container on side of the main tank. He is not as pale as he was but now has the fungus.

    I'm needing some help on the main tank they still have some kind of parasite not sure what kind here are the medicines I have tried...Quick Cure,Prazi-Pro, General Cure which I just completed 2 time treatment like it said on the box. Before medicating with new meds I have already done a 25% water change with gravel vacuum and I'm going to run a power head with carbon to get any General Cure left in the tank.
    I'm needing help on what is a good medication for external and internal parasites? That I can use on Cory Cats and Oto's and small fish like Cardinals?
    I do have some Parasite Clear by Jungle but I'm afraid to try it even half strength because I have used it with adult angelfish and it freaked them out and these fish are so much smaller then adult angelfish plus I also have Oto's and Cory cats. Has anybody use this medication half strength with these fish?
    Or does anyone have a better medication in mind?
    Please help my fish are dying....
     
  17. Musey

    MuseyWell Known MemberMember

    Like I said above, I would use the Tetra Parasite Guard. I have used it on my tanks and had good success when dealing with flukes, stomach parasites, etc. Personally, if your Otos are not showing any sign of illness, I would move them out of the tank and then do the treatment. I think your Cories should be okay with the treatment. You could do it half strength if you like... but... the problem with doing things half strength and trying to go easy on the medication in order to spare your fish, is that very often you don't end up killing off what ever bug is in your tank 100%. Then you end up with an even bigger problem... because now you have created a drug-resistance strain that may or may not respond to future treatments. It can also give you a false sense of thinking everything is getting better because for a short while things do seem to get better. But then as the surviving parasites start to rebound and multiply (because you didn't wipe them out completely) you eventually end up back at square one. In my opinion this just prolongs the suffering of your fish. It's kind of like, not taking all of your medication when the doctor gives you an antibiotic.

    This may seem a bit on the harsh side, but when you are dealing with ongoing issues like this where your entire stock is in distress, sometimes you just have to cut your losses and accept the fact that there may be some casualties as a result of the medication (especially with already weakened fish). Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet (so to speak) and do what is best for the greater good of the tank. You will not always be able to save every single fish and trying to do things too "gently" can end up backfiring and causing more prolonged issues that get harder and harder to treat.

    I am all for trying to use a more natural approach and trying to cure things like ich with heat. I generally try to avoid medicating if I can. However, once the decision is made to medicate I don't mess around. I once lost an entire tank full of fish over the course of several months while I tried many different methods of treatment and tried to go "easy" on the fish. In the end, my fish where so infested with parasites, by the time I actually used the medication I should have used in the first place, it was too late for the rest of my fish. They were too sick to even make it through the treatment. I wish I had just cut my losses from the beginning and treated full strength with the appropriate medication. Maybe then, some of those fish would have survived.

    Anyway, it is your tank and your fish. You need to do what you think is right. I'm just sharing my own point of view and my own experiences. All I can do is offer advise about what I would do. What I can tell you is that Tetra Parasite Guard has helped me save several fish and so far it has not killed even one of my sick fish.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  18. MrsMorocco2010

    MrsMorocco2010Valued MemberMember

    I feel the same way with my tanks. My main tank has ich. My newer tank has 6 buenos aires tetras and I just saw that 1 of them has a mouth fungus. Then i have a quarantine tank which i'm copper treating a platy. it gets so frustrating when treatments don't work. hang in there.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    This is crazy I have never had this much problems with my fish dying! Well, when I got up today I found a surprise and it wasn't a good one.
    I found a Oto dead and I didn't think they where infected but they are so I will have to treat them also. She looks like she has a big red sore on her side here is a picture it is not a good one but I tried:
    IMG_1169.jpg :'(

    I have been researching for 4 days now trying to find a good medication I can use on Otocinclus but I haven't found anything I haven't tried and of course I also have the cory cats to think about also. I know if I use the Parasite Clear by Jungle it might kill all my fish since they are small but at this point it looks like I have no choice. There dying anyways.
    So at this point I have disaffected the power head with bleach it is full of fresh carbon and I'm going to run it for a couple of hours. I will try the Parasite Clear by Jungle at full strength oh gosh I'm so nervous that it will kill all my fish but I'm going to take your advice.
    Thank you so much for all your help I sure hope it works....I will let everybody know what happens.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Speedy

    SpeedyWell Known MemberMember

    Well, I have to say this is my own fault because I didn't quarantine some new Cardinals I bought and they brought Ich into my tank and everything has went down hill since then. This was my first time since I got older and new better that I didn't quarantine fish so I will never do that again.
    I'm sorry your having problems too it is so stressful and to much guessing when it comes to trying to find out there illness I wish they could just tell us.
    I have been thinking about buying a microscope for fish disease but I don't have the money right now but when I do I think I will.
    Good luck with your fish I hope they all make it....and thank you!
     




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