Low ph cycling tricks for a low ph tank

I happen to have moved to an area conducive to keeping discus. Low kh, lowerish gh, ph out of the tap rapidly decreases to 6.5ish ph. I am going to get discus.

In rushing my cycle, I've added sodium carbonate, raised my water temp to 85, and poured in some starters. I was happy with showing nitrates and getting from 3ppm Ammonia to 1 in about 12 hours and then it hit me.

At some point I have to bring everything back down to a more natural state for the water I have. I have 2 filter bags of aragonite to prevent a ph crash, but they keep me at 6.5. That ph is borderline for "bacteria". Is the secret to low ph and sensitive fish actually in Anarchaea?

Should I be shooting for the low ph right now or continue with "ideal parameters"? My fear is I submit my order, have 1k dollars in fish ship, reset my tank with a water change and end up completely uncycled for the 6.5 ph. I know the percentages of ammonium based on ph, but I'm looking to avoid that.

I'm also considering changing tactics with Ammonia dosing. I think I would rather dose 2 to 3 times a day with a smaller dose instead of once a day to 3ppm.

I have no clue why the freshwater community insists on not talking about anarchaea and insists on believing starter in a bottle is snake oil, but there's lots to learn from the saltwater tank and planted tank people. I'm asking here because I'm familiar with some of the old hats here even though I haven't posted in a while. (I gave up and went full guppy and platies in the 180g for a while. They made the kids happy while I was single parenting for a year so a neglected rainbow tank made sense.)

 

I'm not a discus keeper...never have been. But, I have been keeping planted tanks for some time. It is common to keep planted tanks with low KH values of 0-1. We also commonly pump CO2 into our tanks, dropping the pH daily. Yet, fish are perfectly happy in these set ups. Therefore, I suspect our fish don't mind pH swings so much as people say.

Perhaps you could set the tank up the way you plan to have it when you keep the discus and then see if you can cycle it and keep it stable enough for your liking before you get the fish.

 

Oh I'm a planted tank guy. CO2 will be coming before the fish. My question was more on instant stocking a tank under ideal cycling conditions vs cycling for what the end goal was.

 

I happen to have moved to an area conducive to keeping discus. Low kh, lowerish gh, ph out of the tap rapidly decreases to 6.5ish ph. I am going to get discus.

In rushing my cycle, I've added sodium carbonate, raised my water temp to 85, and poured in some starters. I was happy with showing nitrates and getting from 3ppm Ammonia to 1 in about 12 hours and then it hit me.

At some point I have to bring everything back down to a more natural state for the water I have. I have 2 filter bags of aragonite to prevent a ph crash, but they keep me at 6.5. That ph is borderline for "bacteria". Is the secret to low ph and sensitive fish actually in Anarchaea?

Should I be shooting for the low ph right now or continue with "ideal parameters"? My fear is I submit my order, have 1k dollars in fish ship, reset my tank with a water change and end up completely uncycled for the 6.5 ph. I know the percentages of ammonium based on ph, but I'm looking to avoid that.

I'm also considering changing tactics with Ammonia dosing. I think I would rather dose 2 to 3 times a day with a smaller dose instead of once a day to 3ppm.

I have no clue why the freshwater community insists on not talking about anarchaea and insists on believing starter in a bottle is snake oil, but there's lots to learn from the saltwater tank and planted tank people. I'm asking here because I'm familiar with some of the old hats here even though I haven't posted in a while. (I gave up and went full guppy and platies in the 180g for a while. They made the kids happy while I was single parenting for a year so a neglected rainbow tank made sense.)

You are absolutely correct.

You should not be aiming for the 'ideal parameters', which as you can imagine, are not ideal parameters at all in your situation. Not for your discus (well, at least not if one considers 'ideal' as the same as the wild), nor for the nitrifier you want to eventually cultivate.

Yes, it is entirely possible and probably preferable to grow the nitrifying archaea, or really even nitrifying bacteria, that prefer a lower pH (yes they exist too). In such case, you will be getting the correct type of nitrifier from the beginning, rather than the wrong type of nitrifier adapted to a higher pH, and then reasonably expected to underperform, or even completely be inhibited, when you eventually lower the pH.

 

That's what I was afraid of. I'll dump some concrete cleaner into the tank to remove all the carbonates I added slowly and get back down below 7. I knew it was all going too easy!

 

That's what I was afraid of. I'll dump some concrete cleaner into the tank to remove all the carbonates I added slowly and get back down below 7. I knew it was all going too easy!

Don't worry, it'll make it easier long term.

 

So I did ot kind of stupid. I just poured some muriatic acid into the tank. Barely did it right. Ended up with 6.6. Ill check again after work and see if the baking soda and soda ash brings it back up. Crossing my fingers I don't have to add acid again and that my cycle keeps going. I know it's going to slow down, but as long as it's moving I'll be happy. I may end up rigging some sort of auto dose for Ammonia to keep the tank constantly at .50 if I can figure out how to do it with what I have on hand. I'll try to remember to keep this updated for the data. Let me know if anyone wants to know specifics, I can add them. Thursday, as long as the parameters are stable I'm dumping a gallon of one and only in there.

 

First dose of acid was temporary. On a positive note I cycled 2 - 3 ppm Ammonia in 10 hours... cycled it to sky high nitrites and nitrates. I have to wait for the kiddos to finish with baths to see how much water I can change out. I added some more acid to drop my ph. It's below 6 so I'll check again in an hour to see if I can get a reading or not. It's kind of fun seeing what kind of abuse the microscopic critters can handle. Somehow, there's also a pond snail surviving. Probably hitched a ride on an impulse buy of a crypt. I gave up trying to kill them all. I figure they'll add buffer when the tank needs it anyway.

 

Ph was holding steady at 6.6 to 6.8. That sounds about where it should be with my aragonite in the filter. I did a 25 percent change last night and a 50 percent this morning. Test strips indicated over 10 ppm nitrite and over 80 for nitrate. Liquid test indicated .25 nitrite and 10 nitrate. I'll test my tap water with the strips tonight and see if the liquid kit is overwhelmed still or if my strips aren't indicating properly all of a sudden. If the strips look correct I'll try a 50 percent then 75 percent dilution with the liquid kit. It's new for nitrates but the nitrite bottle expires this summer so it's pretty old. I wish api kits were more precise but they're pretty cheap anyway. If I'm showing nitrites being able to keep up by the end of the day I'll add pothos to the back of the tank and start daily dosing 4 to 6 ppm Ammonia daily and start coordinating my order with Gabe at wattley. If everything is stable for 2 to 3 weeks I'm confident the tank will be ready for a full load of 8 or 9 discus, 40 rummy nose tetras, 15 otos, and 2 5-7 inch when fully grown plecos. Hopefully some plants show up today or tomorrow and I can get this party started!

 

You could have just changed water immediately instead of adding acid. Keep away from such chemicals.

About cycling in low pH: It takes quite some time. Archaea grow slowly and you can't really speed that up. BUT: You can support the whole process with driftwood and leaf litter. The biofilms on it help stabilizing the whole system, especially the cycle.

For stabilizing pH in softwater environments humic substances ("tannins") are necessary for a low pH buffering between 4.5 and 6.5 anyways, that would come with that material aswell. Would also be the perfect environment for the fish you picked.

If everything is stable for 2 to 3 weeks I'm confident the tank will be ready for a full load of 8 or 9 discus, 40 rummy nose tetras, 15 otos, and 2 5-7 inch when fully grown plecos.

Take he otos out of the equation for the first 6 months. They should only move into a well established tank with stable biofilms and aufwuchs so they don't strip the tank from that beneficial stuff in one night. That would be a worst case scenario.

 

4 to 6 ppm Ammonia daily

Whew, that's a lot. Any reason for such high ammonia?

 

Whew, that's a lot. Any reason for such high ammonia?

I want to ensure both bacteria and anarchaea can deal with an instant full stocking. I'll deal with daily 80 percent water changes like I'm doing now if it means weekly 25 to 30 percent weekly changes when I have young discus. I know it's a ton, and in a 180 it seems like a waste of water, but I'm trying to establish a neglected lawn at the same time so the water is going to good use in my eyes.

Update: ph is steady. Nitrites were off the charts on the strips but only .25 on the liquid test. I did a dilution on the liquid and got 0 nitrites so I'm thinking there's some chemistry at play I don't understand. Nitrite strip from tap indicated 0 so neither are wrong. I did an 80 percent or more water change. Strips say 3ppm now and api liquid says .25 I'll assume there's some and not worry about which one is correct. I'll assume an indication on either is a positive. It is either there or it isn't, and I don't know the chemistry for the products and how they work to determine which may be correct.

I re dosed fritz Ammonia to 2ppm. I'm sure the Ammonia will be gone sometime long before I wake up in the morning. I got a shipment of 4 anubias species so all 5 plants are in the tank. I took the most sick looking pothos vines and have the vines (3) in the tank now. Hopefully my system doesn't suck them into the tank as a whole since they are short, but I think they are fine for now. One of the anubias are already floating. Renegade anubia! In the next week I have more plants coming. I don't have more plans to adjust the tank so I'm comfortable they will be fine if the root structure is good. I'm planning on getting co2 going in the next 9 days as well. I'll for sure update when that happens. I'm hoping my ancient carbon doser survived the move to the east and its working. If not it's going to hopefully be rapidly replaced. I plan on running it through a nilocg reactor with a sun sun canister powering it again. It worked well before and kept plants growing faster than I could keep up. Hopefully I can keep the green spot algae at bay this time. We will see what my water grants me. This is a tap water setup only!


If anyone has worked with Gabe at wattleydiscus please pm me. He seems great, but I kind of want a customized order and I'm not sure how to appropriately do this sort of thing.

If anyone wants me to experiment something, let me know. If it won't derail the cycle too much, I'm happy to tweak an empty 180 gallon. It seems a few forums have already experimented and answered my questions regarding media requirements and what can be sustained with plants and livestock.

 

I want to ensure both bacteria and anarchaea can deal with an instant full stocking.

I guess that does make sense, though even with an instant full stocking, 1ppm is enough for most tanks, and 2ppm is enough for heavily stocked tanks. :3

 

You could have just changed water immediately instead of adding acid. Keep away from such chemicals.

About cycling in low pH: It takes quite some time. Archaea grow slowly and you can't really speed that up. BUT: You can support the whole process with driftwood and leaf litter. The biofilms on it help stabilizing the whole system, especially the cycle.

For stabilizing pH in softwater environments humic substances ("tannins") are necessary for a low pH buffering between 4.5 and 6.5 anyways, that would come with that material aswell. Would also be the perfect environment for the fish you picked.

Take he otos out of the equation for the first 6 months. They should only move into a well established tank with stable biofilms and aufwuchs so they don't strip the tank from that beneficial stuff in one night. That would be a worst case scenario.

I'm so sorry I didn't see this earlier!

Firstly, due to my abuse, I'm fairly confident that someone at either tss+ or night out ii accounts for low ph situations. The cycle is chugging along regardless of the **** I'm putting it through.

On the otos, please don't take this the wrong way or assume I don't plan on appropriate feeding. I love those little guys more than I should and never depend on my tank to feed them. Same with Amano shrimp or any pleco. If you aren't feeding them specifically, don't buy them aufwuchs substitutes are available. I use soilent green. If amanos aren't fed correctly, they will attack small fish.

I'm up to date on feeding husbandry and water quality requirements. I'm just unsure on the best way to get there with water quality. I do appreciate and understand your advice!

I guess that does make sense, though even with an instant full stocking, 1ppm is enough for most tanks, and 2ppm is enough for heavily stocked tanks. :3

I hear you, but discus have me nervous when the money is where my mouth is!

 

Firstly, due to my abuse, I'm fairly confident that someone at either tss+ or night out ii accounts for low ph situations. The cycle is chugging along regardless of the **** I'm putting it through.

My point was unecessary chemical use, not that it would do something with the cycle immediately. You are only back in lower (this is far from really low) pH territory for a short while. Wait a few weeks, then you will see the actual result.

On the otos, please don't take this the wrong way or assume I don't plan on appropriate feeding. I love those little guys more than I should and never depend on my tank to feed them. Same with Amano shrimp or any pleco. If you aren't feeding them specifically, don't buy them aufwuchs substitutes are available. I use soilent green. If amanos aren't fed correctly, they will attack small fish.

I was not talking about that. But good you are aware of that part of the problem.

I'm up to date on feeding husbandry and water quality requirements. I'm just unsure on the best way to get there with water quality.

Waterchanges. So easy.

My reasoning was: In a tank that would be balanced by its biofilms (outside the filter), the fact that Otos feed on the biofilms on surfaces would reduce these biofilms too much for them to be really helpful. But as you are obviously not interested in that method, that's irrelevant.

I do appreciate and understand your advice!

No offence, I'm confident you missed some of my points.
So I'll leave it at that, bid you good luck and I'm out of this thread. I have the feeling it won't make much sense discussing this further.

 

I hear you, but discus have me nervous when the money is where my mouth is!

Fair enough. XD

 

So, I originally wasn't going to respond at all to the upset sounding post, but I do want to address a couple of things.

Yes, a water change would easily address and fix the ph issue. There were 2 reasons I didn't want to do that. The first is it's an empty tank that's cycling. Why not experiment for myself so I can trust chemical tweaks if I ever need to. I'm essentially playing. Worst case scenario is I completely restart a cycle. The other is its winter time and it's a 180 gallon aquarium. That's a lot of water, and more importantly time having to have a door cracked open to drain for a little under an hour, plus using all 50 gallons of my hot water to refill. It's inconvenient and wasteful when I could just be playing.

In regards to the biofilm, I don't really care much. I don't NEED it, and the risk vs reward isn't there for me. If I fully stock initially, I have 1 insanely massive quarantine package. Local stores near me don't look trustworthy with their stock. I want to avoid adding anything other than plants after initial stocking. I'd rather not quarantine otos for 6 to 8 weeks in a hospital tank. I don't have a way to set up my hospital tank that would keep the fish safe from small children dumping a jar of fish food, and it would be difficult to ensure they don't have empty bellies anyway.

I may have missed some of their points somehow, but I am calculating all the risks I can think of, and I didn't see any new risks I wasn't already factoring in.

Now for the update. Nothing new. Still waiting for nitrite to catch up. I didn't add Ammonia yesterday. I added about 1ppm this morning. Ph, gh, and kh are all steady still. I've tossed some plants in and put 4 short pothos vines into the back of the tank. I've got to figure out a way to keep some tc plants in the substrate with my flow. I may just leave then floating until the roots get longer, I just hate then being stuck on the circulation pump.
New update: I pulled a newbie mistake. With all the games with the water and then the water changes, I completely forgot about potassium. I replanted all my plants that were dancing around the tank this morning and redosed ferts. Just out of curiosity I rechecked ph, still stable, and nitrite. Nitrite dropped from just shy of 1ppm to somewhere around .25 already. I'll recheck all the parameters I can this evening and if I've got no Ammonia or nitrite, I'll begin dosing 1ppm Ammonia twice a day, then after a week I'll do 2ppm twice a day. I'm hoping all the plants will convert quickly and begin nitrate uptake. All of my in tank plants are crypts or swords so they won't help much, but I've also got some buce somewhere and about 10 stem plants that need to convert to growing under the water. Hopefully the pothos saves me a couple of huge water changes.

Somehow the pond snails that hitched into the tank are doing well. Not sure what they're eating or how they're surviving my experiments, but they have decent shells and they're active. If I was in a home that was more permanent I'd buy some clown loaches, but I'll hold off until I'm retired from my next job and won't be moving every 3 years anymore. The snails don't really bother me anyway, as long as they don't eat my plants.

 

Not much to update this morning. Dosing about .50 ppm Ammonia every 12 hours. Nitrite is hanging at .25 still. I think the pothos is already consuming some nitrates since they are exactly at the same level as yesterday morning. Nitrite isn't rising so some of it is being converted.

I don't think I mentioned this earlier. This tank has had 2 large tss+ bottles, 1 large bottle of one and only, and 1 large bottle of the fritz aquatics version. (This is also my first full fishless cycle. It's going much better than my previous 4 attempts. I usually get no movement for 4 weeks and then just add a light load of fish with 2 big bottles of tss+ and keep an eye on things.)

This is fun

 

You don't need biofilm? Ehm...

I think it's great to see you are experimenting with this.

Personally I would set up another tank, throw in blackwater materials, and wait for at least 6 months. So at least you have something by the book.

Not sure if fish deserve experimentation. Until you are certain you've reached steady and suitable conditions with your experimental tank, you could add fish. Might take a few months though

In my view, patience is part of the hobby. Why rush? (rhetoric; no need to answer).

 

You don't need biofilm? Ehm...

I think it's great to see you are experimenting with this.

Personally I would set up another tank, throw in blackwater materials, and wait for at least 6 months. So at least you have something by the book.

Not sure if fish deserve experimentation. Until you are certain you've reached steady and suitable conditions with your experimental tank, you could add fish. Might take a few months though

In my view, patience is part of the hobby. Why rush? (rhetoric; no need to answer).

By saying I don't need it, I meant a surplus available. It will get there when it gets there.

If I had fish, I would never have been so cavalier with this tank. Pouring muriatic acid into a tank would be as devastating you could get, as would the 3 tablespoons of soda ash and 3 tablespoons of sodium bicarbonate. I'm not doing science experiments, just me experiments, if that makes sense. I now know that after about 7.6, baking soda is not very effective at raising ph, but soda ash works better. Muriatic acid added afterwards lowers ph, but will rebound in a few hours if enough kh wasn't used up. I also know my aragonite bags in the filter stabilize kh and ph within about 12 hours, but don't continue after about 6.7 or 6.8.

I'm not really in a rush per se, but I do have windows to get what I'm after for stock. Another month is pushing things, but the seller is willing to help build the order anyway. (Aren't we all a LITTLE excited to stock after looking at an empty tank for a month or two?) I'm pretty much done with most of my experiments now. Tweaking air pump settings, moving pumps around, adding co2 and a third heater and an ink bird for 2 heaters is about all I can think of to do still other than setting up my order. Dialing in co2 will probably take me about 3 days IF my carbon doser still works after the move.

There's a few things left to do still, but the last real experiment is the low level Ammonia dosing to see if it benefits the anarchaea. It's all a process and I don't think anyone knows the perfect answer. If places can instant stock a 6k gallon reef display, how can I use that process to benefit freshwater tanks? Maybe I can't, but I can try. If I was really trying to rush this I would keep Ammonia at 3 -4 ppm and be doing 2x daily water changes. From what I have been able to research, that's not conducive to anarchaea growth.

I have tried the experiment you described. It's difficult to remember such an experiment and also to control the water. After 3 months I ended up with pretty much a stinking half filled container. I wasn't motivated to check it on any sort of schedule so water levels depleted quickly. Wife wasn't happy. It's really hard to control enough variables without investing in extra equipment.

I agree mostly with not experimenting with stock! Some careful experimentation can be a good idea though, such as getting a tank to recycle nitrates. It doesn't require anything that would harm the stock.

 

In such case, you will be getting the correct type of nitrifier from the beginning, rather than the wrong type of nitrifier adapted to a higher pH, and then reasonably expected to underperform, or even completely be inhibited, when you eventually lower the pH.

In doing more reading on the subject, the archaea (autocorrect enjoys injecting extra letters, I just caught it.) seem to grow slowly under any and all conditions they live in. Like doubling every 10 days or so under ideal conditions vs 10x faster with the more well discussed bacteria, and all of them seem to work down to just above 6.0 ph. Do you have any research you can point me to? I know most of what we get is for sewage treatment or soil conditions, not fish tanks, but I'm wondering if the archaea that reproduce slowly just happens after about 6 months regardless. (I suspect this also is linked to the "mature" tank thinking.)

None of the bacteria or archaea exist really outside of the biofilm they make, so as far as I can tell, some of us are chasing old myths about maturity. There's no denying a mature tank and it's possibilities, but I'm beginning to think a fist full of pond mud will go farther than just time alone. (I'm debating this technique currently. The disease potential has me nervous, but study of pathogens for aquarium fish tells me I'm worried about nothing since most fish have a myriad of parasitic things on them that never affect them, much the same as our own bodies.)

Anyhow, aside from that question and my thoughts going forward, nothing new to report!

 

In doing more reading on the subject, the archaea (autocorrect enjoys injecting extra letters, I just caught it.) seem to grow slowly under any and all conditions they live in. Like doubling every 10 days or so under ideal conditions vs 10x faster with the more well discussed bacteria, and all of them seem to work down to just above 6.0 ph. Do you have any research you can point me to? I know most of what we get is for sewage treatment or soil conditions, not fish tanks, but I'm wondering if the archaea that reproduce slowly just happens after about 6 months regardless. (I suspect this also is linked to the "mature" tank thinking.)

None of the bacteria or archaea exist really outside of the biofilm they make, so as far as I can tell, some of us are chasing old myths about maturity. There's no denying a mature tank and it's possibilities, but I'm beginning to think a fist full of pond mud will go farther than just time alone. (I'm debating this technique currently. The disease potential has me nervous, but study of pathogens for aquarium fish tells me I'm worried about nothing since most fish have a myriad of parasitic things on them that never affect them, much the same as our own bodies.)

Anyhow, aside from that question and my thoughts going forward, nothing new to report!

Yes, archaea do tend to grow veryyyyy slowly. Yet, interestingly, they are supposedly the dominant nitrifiers in filters of freshwater aquariums. Here are two articles on that:
Temporal and Spatial Stability of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Bacteria in Aquarium Biofilters
Aquarium Nitrification Revisited: Thaumarchaeota Are the Dominant Ammonia Oxidizers in Freshwater Aquarium Biofilters

And yes, these are actual aquariums. The first article by this group did not investigate aquariums at lower pH (if I am not wrong, to be honest I have not thoroughly read through either article), but the second did.

There's a lot there that may be of interest to you, including the preferences for biomedia that ammonia-oxidizing archaea has, and that over time, specifically a period of about six months, they do outcompete and replace ammonia-oxidizing bacteria in filters. Not that that is good or bad per se, I mean ammonia-oxidizing bacteria work just as well. But that's also food for thought - and why I do try to refrain from using the term 'beneficial bacteria' at times.

As for fish disease, yes that is absolutely a good point. Seems like if a fish' immune system is just robust, they kinda just shake it all off. Though I have not really dig into this deeper, to be honest. It is also possible that probiotics can really help keep disease at bay, probiotics found in nature that even helps build up a fish' immune system, but with tankbred fish, not only are they not supplemented with probiotics, but all these antiobiotic treatments make them even weaker. It is potentially the reason why fish can be so weak and die of seemingly nothing. Having to deal with a low degree of pathogens in nature can also help build a strong immune system. If you ever hear about the whole 'let your children eat dirt, it helps build their immune system!' thing, well firstly don't, dirt contains things that cannot be digested and can actually harm humans, but the idea is correct. Us animals build a strong immune system by actually training it, much like why weight-lifting helps build muscles. The right amount of resistance, the right amount of challenge, helps build. Too much of course and that's no good.

Long story short, one way to go about it is to introduce yes, all these potentially pathogen- and parasite-ridden stuff into a tank, and kinda let survival of the fittest do its thing. Unfortunately I do think some of the fish we buy won't make it, but others will, and the ones that do are probably highly robust.

Honestly, I have never treated any of my tanks or fish for ANYTHING, whether they develop ich or get some fungal growth or whatever. I do add a tad bit of salt (so okay, I lie I guess, it is a 'treatment'), but otherwise make sure to keep up the feeding, and the fish shakes it off themselves. I am not necessarily advocating this for everyone, to clarify, but it is some food for thought.

 

Good reads. I was interrupted a lot so it took me a while to go through it all. I appreciate the sources!

Small update to the tank. I think the api nitrite test is invalid and not working. I've got a seachem test kit coming Thursday that measures more precisely and a much larger range. I diluted to about 10 percent fish tank water to tap water to get low enough to max out the test strip. I estimate nitrites at about 45ppm. I'm currently draining the tank. I also noted ph dropped to about 6.4 so I added 2 more bags of aragonite to the filter. I need to buy some more media also. Apparently my fx4 has aragonite and sponges for filtration right now. Apparently I tossed out the ceramic media in the move. I'll probably investigate what's in my sun sun that will be primarily for driving my co2 reactor. That should have plenty of media in it still but I'll check before I hook it up Thursday evening. I don't anticipate an update prior to then anyway. I'll either be happy with the excess media I find and the carbon doser works, or I'll be upset about one or the other or both. I just paid 200 dollars for a second co2 tank. I bought the first one for 60. Inflation I guess. Co2 is about the same, 30 bucks for 20 lbs.

At this rate I'm already sliding my order another 2 weeks from my initial plan.

Python just gurgled so tome to watch a tank fill for a couple of hours!

 

Small update. My 4 year old aquatop canister is no good now. The priming pump broke as I was setting it up. Judging by the number of orings, there's no way to run this thing safely without the manual pump stem. I've got a fluval 207 coming in a couple of days to drive the co2 reactor, but I may have to cobble things together to get the reactor connected to the pump. This whole thing is fighting me every single step of the way.

I'm sticking with fluval for filters from now on. They have parts to rebuild everything I could possibly break. That makes me support them even more. I can replace everything almost on my fx4 with a 40 dollar kit.

Nitrites haven't moved. Not sure what's going on there, but I'm assuming my order will be pushed about a month. I'll just wait until everything is set and stable completely and then email about ordering what I'm after. At this point I'm not hopeful I can get everything at once.

 

Really want to just throw in the towel on this tank. Got everything setup, nitrites are coming down about .25 per day, and now my reactor is leaking. The way it's plumbed means it's a mess and a pain to remove it from the system so for now I pumped co2 in it until it was dry with the filter off and the hoses shut. I guess I'm waiting until some time next week when I get a new one from niloc.

On the plus side I chucked 2 handfuls of pond silt in. It mostly went where I wanted it to so it doesn't look bad. At this point I'm assuming I'll get shocked by a heater next week and a seal on the tank fails the week after.

 

Just a small uupdate. I'm processing 2ppm Ammonia every 36 hours into nitrate. I figure by the end of the week I will easily be at 2ppm in less than 24 hours. With the api kit I'm sometimes getting a hanging .25 indication, sometimes not, so I'm thinking my ph is dipping down just to 6.5 sometimes before the aragonite catches back up. I have quick turnover throughout the tank before the fx4 gets to add more aragonite so the tank should be pretty stable as far as that goes.

The diatoms from the substrate are dying off. The pond snails make quick work of it with their clear shells. Daughter wants a tank with guppies and shrimp so I'll be amending water for her tank prior to water changes. Once I've got the 204 running for a month I'll start looking for an aio tank for her so I can cycle her tank faster.

No clue when my reactor will get here. I'm hoping by Friday but I think ups missed a label. It's been awaiting arrival to the first carrier for 2 days now, which usually means it will be delivered before they figure out where it is.

Once the reactor gets here I'll start talking with Gabe again to line up a delivery. I'll likely wait until I have a Friday off so they can ship Thursday, and I can be home to receive Friday, and if they miss I can catch them Saturday. They don't like Saturday deliveries because if there's a miss, you get fish soup on Monday.

I'll post another update by the end of the week, or the next bump in this road. This setup is making me nervous. I've never had so much trouble and part of me thinks it's karma telling me to do a pleco tank and get a royal instead of doing discus.

 

Just checked, currently getting about 3 ppm cycled in 24 hours. My reactor won't be here until Monday. Shame. I just learned I will have next Friday off so if everything went a little bit smoother I would have been able to order fish.

I guess at this point I'll just focus on the plants. I'm thinking about just loading the open part in the back of my tank with pothos to reduce nitrates faster. I'll also probably dose Ammonia up to 4 ppm every other day. In theory, a feast famine situation should keep my micro critters a little more robust. I'm sure my nitrates are sky high right now too.

I guess the up side to having to wait longer is I can experiment with plant mass with the emersed pothos. The one thing that has begun to concern me is a lack of algae. I've got way too much fertilizer in the tank for my plant load, and way too much light. I have seen zero new algae growth. Strange.

 

Changing plans yet again. Tank cycles 4ppm Ammonia every 24 hours or less without a problem. I'm having an issue though. My gh has doubled to about 180 ppm from about 90. Kh isn't keeping up. I've slowed to about 1ppm Ammonia per day. My current theory is the aragonite is adding to gh and kh, but the kh is getting used up.

So my current plan is to dose less Ammonia daily, add everything I would for a water change, including discus trace, and basically have the tank running like fish are currently in the tank. I've also set up a 32 gallon trash can to prep water before water changes so my hot water heater doesn't have to be used for every water change. I may pick up another trash can and rig up a system to keep water flowing between the two so I can have enough water for a 30 percent water change weekly. I've also got a couple of fistfulls of aragonite in the trash cans to leach some extra kh slowly.

I think this may be my last update of the thread. Everything is going well enough and stable. Thanks for the advice!