Loss Of Siphon Issue

Prince James
  • #1
So I found a diy overflow build on YouTube and love it. But have realized that it can be quite loud and is losing siphon. I'm guessing I have to install a check valve but not sure how or should I say where to install it. Can anyone help?

The overflow is a 2 piece overflow that drains down the back of the tank into a diy trickle sump. The main piece is a U piece made of 1.5in pvc and goes inside 2in pvc. The 2 in pvc is more of an H shape but water is really only in the bottom 2 legs. The siphon would pull the water from the leg that's inside the tank up through the 1.5in pvc and over to the other leg that's outside the tank and then down the tube into the sump. I have noticed loud gurgling noise and then eventually the overflow loses siphon. My fix is a check valve but just need to know where to put it.


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Rohit mess
  • #2
If I am correct, then
#1 you just have to attach a ball valve to the output section. I have circled it in the . That way there will always be water in that loop and as soon as you open the valve water will flow out. I have added the with the red colored circle where you gotta attach ball valve.
#2 about the gurgling sound and siphon stopping working. Thia happens because there is opening for air through that external T junction combo you are using to place the actual pipes in. I have circled with green colored circle in the . Add a valve to this directly (instead of adding to the T-junction) and it will solve all issues. If there is still noise then cement the pvc pipes.
Also you don't need check valve for this. I use a 4mm diameter airline tube for this purpose. Its slower that 1.5" pvc but it suits my needs.
Hope this helps. And let us know how it turns out.
 

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Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
If I am correct, then
#1 you just have to attach a ball valve to the output section. I have circled it in the . That way there will always be water in that loop and as soon as you open the valve water will flow out. I have added the with the red colored circle where you gotta attach ball valve.
#2 about the gurgling sound and siphon stopping working. Thia happens because there is opening for air through that external T junction combo you are using to place the actual pipes in. I have circled with green colored circle in the . Add a valve to this directly (instead of adding to the T-junction) and it will solve all issues. If there is still noise then cement the pvc pipes.
Also you don't need check valve for this. I use a 4mm diameter airline tube for this purpose. Its slower that 1.5" pvc but it suits my needs.
Hope this helps. And let us know how it turns out.

What do you mean by #2? That piece goes inside of the top of the H structure. That's what actually siphones the water from the tank to the other side. I'll paste the link of the video that I got the idea from, I guess I should have done that in the first place so you can get a better understanding. I have this in my 85 gallon tall tank so up the size to try and filter more water. I think I understand what you mean by #1 so I'm going to try that, just don't know what you meant by add a valve directly. Like a one way check valve?

 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
If I am correct, then
#1 you just have to attach a ball valve to the output section. I have circled it in the . That way there will always be water in that loop and as soon as you open the valve water will flow out. I have added the with the red colored circle where you gotta attach ball valve.
#2 about the gurgling sound and siphon stopping working. Thia happens because there is opening for air through that external T junction combo you are using to place the actual pipes in. I have circled with green colored circle in the . Add a valve to this directly (instead of adding to the T-junction) and it will solve all issues. If there is still noise then cement the pvc pipes.
Also you don't need check valve for this. I use a 4mm diameter airline tube for this purpose. Its slower that 1.5" pvc but it suits my needs.
Hope this helps. And let us know how it turns out.

Also, would I just drill a hole in the top of the piece that you circle in green big enough for the 4mm tubing? If I go bigger, would that help to not slow down the flow? If I just insert it at the top, about how much should I leave remaining hanging out of the pipe?
 
Rohit mess
  • #5
Saw the vid and yes it is awesome for someone having multiple tanks.
That valve won't be needed, it is good for a fixed overflow for one tank.
Did you cement the inner pipes? If not cemented air will leak in and siphon will stop. Also that can be a reason for the gurgling noise. Another source of gurgling in most of overflow system is from where the water enters the tube (the opening inside aquarium). To stop the noise they make teeths (like on a comb) to reduce the noise.
post some pics of your overflow. That will give a clear idea for me to help us figure it out.
 
Rohit mess
  • #6
See this cross section drawing of what is shown in rhe video.
The inlet on the tank side is the main reason for gurgling noise, but it does not affect the siphon.
Every time the tank water gets over the inlet level siphon starts working.
 

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Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
See this cross section drawing of what is shown in rhe video.
The inlet on the tank side is the main reason for gurgling noise, but it does not affect the siphon.
Every time the tank water gets over the inlet level siphon starts working.

Sorry won't be home until much later to get pictures but the second I prime it and put it in the tank as shown in the video, it instantly starts the gurgling which I'm assuming is putting air up the tube leading up in the siphon section. The gurgling then eventually slows down with the water flow as well. Everything is cemented together accept for the red circle piece that you drew in the picture.
 
Rohit mess
  • #8
Okay. No hurry. Awaiting your pic.
I will upload my overflow pic as soon as I reach my tank.
 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
Okay. No hurry. Awaiting your pic.
I will upload my overflow pic as soon as I reach my tank.

Ok will get back to you but it basically looks exactly like that one in the video except I spray painted it black and used larger pipes if that helps.
 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
Okay. No hurry. Awaiting your pic.
I will upload my overflow pic as soon as I reach my tank.

This is my overflow.
 

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Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
Ok will get back to you but it basically looks exactly like that one in the video except I spray painted it black and used larger pipes if that helps.

I had quick ran home during my lunch to take the pictures but sadly enough, the overflow had lost siphon, even though I had just printed it on Saturday, and the tank was overflowing. So spent my lunch cleaning up and repriming them but still started the gurgling noise immediately... :'(

I really don't want to have to go back to the store bought filter but this is driving me crazy and I truly am investing a lot of time, >3 hrs a day, into this tank and its starting to become overwhelming. I just don't know where I went wrong...
 
TexasGuppy
  • #12
I built this one.
Works fine, but it's very loud. I think I made it too long. Lots of posts about hard to quiet these.
I was thinking building this one instead

Eshopps PF300 Overflow Box for Aquariums, up to 75-Gallons
I think the key to maintaining prime is to have standing water at both end when the flow stops.
 
Rohit mess
  • #13
This is my overflow.
The culprit is internal Pipe that siphons the water.
The end cap part in the tank is on a bit higher level than that of drain side due to which the siphon cannot maintain water level inside.
For this you have to change the angle of the cut that you made on the pipe specifically the end that goes inside tank.
See the circle in the s.
Cut is much slanted (or sharp like a spear head).
Decrease it.(make more like a stick end)
 

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Rohit mess
  • #14
I built this one.
Works fine, but it's very loud. I think I made it too long. Lots of posts about hard to quiet these.
I was thinking building this one instead

Eshopps PF300 Overflow Box for Aquariums, up to 75-Gallons
I think the key to maintaining prime is to have standing water at both end when the flow stops.
Diy king. Yup its nice but I donot wanna something tgat big. So I just use this. Not original. But something that I had lying around so just repurposed it to suit myself using a suction cup from old filter. and yes I just make u turns on both ends use zip tie or a duct tape and Ta Daa... Its done.
 

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Rohit mess
  • #15
I had quick ran home during my lunch to take the pictures but sadly enough, the overflow had lost siphon, even though I had just printed it on Saturday, and the tank was overflowing. So spent my lunch cleaning up and repriming them but still started the gurgling noise immediately... :'(

I really don't want to have to go back to the store bought filter but this is driving me crazy and I truly am investing a lot of time, >3 hrs a day, into this tank and its starting to become overwhelming. I just don't know where I went wrong...
For the time being you can use a simple pipe (airline, normal pipe, etc) with suction cup to avoid the room to be flooded. See the simple stuff I posted in the above comment. All you need is a pipe. It doesn't look good, but until your black siphon works properly something like this will be nice.
 
TexasGuppy
  • #16
The diyking can be made.much smaller, I'm going to cut it down and see if it gets quieter. My outside pipe is lower than inside and it works maintains prime even after powerloss and restart without intervention. The key is having standing water at bottom after shutting down. motor. For now, wife wasn't happy with noise so I just bought fluval 406. Pipes are ugly.
 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
The culprit is internal Pipe that siphons the water.
The end cap part in the tank is on a bit higher level than that of drain side due to which the siphon cannot maintain water level inside.
For this you have to change the angle of the cut that you made on the pipe specifically the end that goes inside tank.
See the circle in the s.
Cut is much slanted (or sharp like a spear head).
Decrease it.(make more like a stick end)

You are a genius. Not sure how you know to make it less slanted but it is now keeping prime and going so much faster, I can actually turn the return pump up to full blast and it still doesn't overflow.

But it is still very noisy and a lot of gurgling noise. I liked at the tubing and the seems to be air pockets as well as water. Not sure how that's possible since everything is cemented together. Any thoughts on that?

Also, I am actually running 2 of the overflows and the other one has the inner bottom pipe matching the outside bottom pipe and that one seems to be messing more noise than the one in the picture. Thoughts?
 

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Rohit mess
  • #18
I am glad it worked. Phew. Happy that you don't have a pool when you return home. That was some task eh!
Noise... Just water splashing noise or air gurgling noise? I will assume air gurgling noise.
(Note: Also try to switch the pipes and see what is its effect on noise , in case I am wrong with what I am about to write now).
In this case ,NO, the length of inner pipes won't affect the noise that much. Its mostly due to some air trapped inside it
OR;
On that horizontal overflow piece floating in tank, the white pair of dots are the holes you drilled right? And you are using this for other one as well, right?
If yes then try to prime properly. There is air inside that's making the noise.
Or just drill a hole in center and stick couple of inch of airline hose so as to let the air inside it escape.

If neither of this works, I accept that I am at a loss here.
 

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Rohit mess
  • #19
You are a genius. Not sure how you know to make it less slanted but it is now keeping prime and going so much faster, I can actually turn the return pump up to full blast and it still doesn't overflow.

But it is still very noisy and a lot of gurgling noise. I liked at the tubing and the seems to be air pockets as well as water. Not sure how that's possible since everything is cemented together. Any thoughts on that?

Also, I am actually running 2 of the overflows and the other one has the inner bottom pipe matching the outside bottom pipe and that one seems to be messing more noise than the one in the picture. Thoughts?
Its not the angle of cutting, but since the inner pipe was actually resting only on tank side, what we did is:

the highest point of water exciting from inner pipe was higher than lowest point of water exiting out into the drain.
By cutting the slant we reduced the overall height of highest point of water entering and exciting the inner pipe and brought it below the lowest point of water exciting out into the drain.

If you know what I mean...
 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
I am glad it worked. Phew. Happy that you don't have a pool when you return home. That was some task eh!
Noise... Just water splashing noise or air gurgling noise? I will assume air gurgling noise.
(Note: Also try to switch the pipes and see what is its effect on noise , in case I am wrong with what I am about to write now).
In this case ,NO, the length of inner pipes won't affect the noise that much. Its mostly due to some air trapped inside it
OR;
On that horizontal overflow piece floating in tank, the white pair of dots are the holes you drilled right? And you are using this for other one as well, right?
If yes then try to prime properly. There is air inside that's making the noise.
Or just drill a hole in center and stick couple of inch of airline hose so as to let the air inside it escape.

If neither of this works, I accept that I am at a loss here.


Well like in the video, that piece with the holes is optional. I actually tried removing it, priming, abs reinserting it and still air gurgling noise. Do you think I need to put an airline tube at the top of the inner tube that keeps the actual siphon or maybe a one way valve?
 
Rohit mess
  • #21
Well like in the video, that piece with the holes is optional. I actually tried removing it, priming, abs reinserting it and still air gurgling noise. Do you think I need to put an airline tube at the top of the inner tube that keeps the actual siphon or maybe a one way valve?
Adding airline tube at top of inner pipe will destroy all your hard work. Yeah adding a one way check valve MAY help. At your own risk.
Also the air noise is probably made by actions happening in the space that is between inner pipe and that external pipe (entry point). Or jus try adding a coarse sponge in there.
 
Prince James
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
Adding airline tube at top of inner pipe will destroy all your hard work. Yeah adding a one way check valve MAY help. At your own risk.
Also the air noise is probably made by actions happening in the space that is between inner pipe and that external pipe (entry point). Or jus try adding a coarse sponge in there.

You think it would work if I put some quilt batting in between the inner and outer pipes to quiet the noise? Also I see that the gurgling is air also going in to the sump along with the water so I'm thinking that the siphon is still being worn out just at all slower rate. Do you think that the air is coming from the space in between the 2 pipes? Do you think adding the ball valve to show the rate of flow so there isn't so much water flowing so quickly causing the water to quicker causing air to also be sucked in and eventually lose the siphon?
 
Rohit mess
  • #23
You think it would work if I put some quilt batting in between the inner and outer pipes to quiet the noise? Also I see that the gurgling is air also going in to the sump along with the water so I'm thinking that the siphon is still being worn out just at all slower rate. Do you think that the air is coming from the space in between the 2 pipes? Do you think adding the ball valve to show the rate of flow so there isn't so much water flowing so quickly causing the water to quicker causing air to also be sucked in and eventually lose the siphon?

Give everything a try on one of the overflow. Keep other as it is until you see success.
Also the siphon should not stop working in any case. If siphon stops then it indicates air leakage or mismatched pipe levels.
You can try keeping the overflow inlet under the water level by few inches and use ball valve to regulate the flow of water at the sump side. It will not be and overflow but will serve the purpose in a way.
Also get a buddy along while doing such stuff. Even some silly discussion may lead to good googling, youtubing, discussion, and proper working. And it is fun too.
I would like to help you more but videos on internet gives nice DIY end products and unless I make one myself I cannot help you further. Really sorry mate.
 

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