Losing An Apistogramma Cacatuoides

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Nick72, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    28D3A15C-6FBB-4207-8B8C-02B845B960E6.

    The only visible signs of issues are the two tiny rice shaped marks on his caudal fin and the small white patch towards the back and above his stripe.

    The photo is from a week ago and the white patch is slightly larger now, but not much.

    For the last four days he has been hiding out under some driftwood in his territory. Not swimming freely in the tank as he always has before.

    He did however come out immediately for food and eat normally. Hanging out for a few minutes before returning to the driftwood.

    Today he didn't come out for food.

    I'm pretty sure he's on his way out.

    I got him and another on the 9th March this year as 1 inch juveniles.

    The other quickly grew to 3 inches, while he has developed much slower and is now approximately 2.2 inches.

    Both have been healthy and very active the b whole time, and I've been surprised by their free swimming around the entire tank.

    There is very little aggression between the two males who each have a territory on either side of the tank.

    I don't really have a clue as to what's wrong with him, but he is clearly on a downward spiral.

    Without a quarantine tank I think I might just by some Seachem ParGuard (Fungal / Bacterial / Parasite) and dose the entire tank tomorrow.

    Any other suggestions or diagnosis welcome.

    Ammonia 0. Nitrite 0. Nitrate 10+. DH 2. GH 5. PH 7.4 (Reading 6.5 with injected CO2)

    50g planted with over filtration from a Fluval 407.
    Weekly 50% water changes.
    Temperature 28.4c
     
  2. johnbirg

    johnbirgValued MemberMember

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    The only thing I can see from your observations is that the temperature may be a little high. My apistos seem to like 27. But 28.4 shouldn't cause any problems. Hope the paraguard does the trick.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    Thanks. I keep the temperature up as I have two GBR in the same tank.

    I'll pick up the ParGuard today.
     
  4. johnbirg

    johnbirgValued MemberMember

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    IMG_20190625_084251615_HDR.IMG_20190625_084630799_HDR.
    Yes I have them too and very happy at 27.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    I gave the entire 50g a full dose of ParGuard as soon as got home this evening.

    The poor Apisto is still sitting in one spot looking very sorry for himself.

    I think he looks slightly bloated:

    CD8E0723-9EA9-49DD-AEE0-1A9C2E39230B.

    Are his scales slightly pine coned? Maybe?

    The white patch has been on his back for three weeks now. Adding aquarium salt after two weekly water changes didn't get ride of it.

    CB31CD09-61E6-4395-886D-FFDCD05E4B5D.

    But really it doesn't look very severe.

    1304A915-ACA1-447D-A91F-6BED1568F5BF.

    It seems to be completely flat, no fungus or fuzz. Looks more like an injury than anything else.

    Except for the fact it has grown a little over the three weeks.

    I really don't know what's wrong with him, but the way he's acting he could go at any minute.

    I hope the ParGuard works a miracle on him, but expecting the worst.
     
  6. coralbandit

    coralbanditFishlore VIPMember

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    Have you tried methylene blue baths ..
    I am no fan of salt at all and especially would stay away from it with SA cichlids more then almost any other fish ..
    Unfortunately too many people get away with using/abusing it too easily ..It really is no good for fish at all ..What do I know though ?
     
  7. OP
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    Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    Hi @coralbandit - I know that there is some controversy regarding aquarium salts.

    Many say they serve no purpose, others swear by them.

    Being relatively new to fish keeping its often difficult to understand the truth behind the conflicting views.

    I was not aware that SA Cichlids were particularly sensitive to salts, but I will take that onboard. Thank you.

    In any case I used a very mild solution, only 7 teaspoons per 50g after two weekly water changes of 50%.

    So I doubt this would have done any harm - possibly no good either.

    Being fairly stumped as to what illness my Apisto is ailing from, it's difficult to know the best course of action.

    I haven't tried Methylene Blue at this point. From a quick Google search it's seems to target a similar range of fungal / ectoparasitic / bacterial issues as Seachem ParaGuard.

    Considering I started the course of ParaGuard today I will probably stick with it as a week long course and see where I am after that.

    Would you hazard a guess at what I'm dealing with?

    Any thoughts on the merits of ParaGuard?

    Thanks for your input.
     
  8. coralbandit

    coralbanditFishlore VIPMember

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    The spots on the tail I think are Lymphocystis or very similar to what many have been seeing on their angels fins ..There are several threads on the spots and so far no losses .
    The white patch ? I always say columnaris as it seems pretty common and hard to beat .There are at least 4 strains with 2 being mild ,not killing and treatable ...
    As for paraguard I have never used it !
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    Thanks @coralbandit

    I also thought the marks on the caudal fin closely resemble the reported marks on the Angel's fins.

    I'm still not convinced it's Lymph - I had a Red Eyed Tetra with Lymph which was much more cauliflower like in growth. It was also much more obviously on the skin, where with the Apisto it can look beneath the skin.

    If columnaris it's one of the less aggressive strains. Still not sure about this as a diagnosis though.

    I'll keep an eye on it.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Nick72

    Nick72Well Known MemberMember

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    Got home from work today and the sick Apisto was gone.

    I pulled him out from the Italian Val and fortunately none of the other fish had disturbed or taken a bite of the corpse.

    I always seem to forget how the aquarium glass makes the fish look bigger. He was only about 1.5 inches.

    No obvious cause of death. The white patch on his back looked more like an injury than anything else on close inspection.

    All the other fish look fine.

    I'll continue to treat the entire tank with ParaGuard for another four or five days, just in case it clears any unseen issues.
     
  11. johnbirg

    johnbirgValued MemberMember

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    Sorry to hear you lost the Apisto. It's upsetting when it happens. I recently lost 2 of my old Dalmatian platies due to old age and I was still upset. Hope all goes well with your other fish.
     
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