Looking For Koi Swordtails... But Not Sure Of Variant Name...

Hi, I've been doing a bit of lurking here and recently had picked up a few swordtails for my tank. They are beautiful, but the LFS I went to only had this pair I'm including here.

As you can see, this male and female pair is pretty cool and unique. I didn't see any more at the store and they weren't sure if / when they might get more in. Does anyone know what they could be identified as? I would love more and definitely plan on seeing if the female's babies carry the same trait.

Yes, I realize that there are platies in the tank and they would cross breed, but I need to see if I can separate her out into another tank I will set up in the near future. The male could be too "old" to breed, but there's no harm in me setting up their tank / pulling the male platies to a friend's tank to see if I can get him to have some offspring as well. They don't seem to "recognize" the platies at the moment as they stick to each other like glue and chase the platies off.

 

Long fin swordtail?

 

Long fin swordtail?

I think so, but I can't seem to find anything under that.

If I had to name them, I'd probably call them Kohaku, but they have black tails... I see a lot of koi swordtails that are albino and that's definitely not what I'm after.

I've seen the albino ones called koi kohaku lyretail swordtails, but I can't seem to find where I'd get ones with black tails and finnage! This is the closest I've been able to find on the web. But I'm not a fan of the red eyes and such.

Edit:

Would they be wag koi kohaku lyretail swordtails then? Since wag is the black finnage type?

 

You can't call them kohaku for "kohaku" means bi-color. So, two colors. This is a tri-color. If it's white based, it's a sanke. If it's black based, it's a showa. But yes, they do have the wag finnage...

 

Nice looking fish! Maybe your LFS could put you in touch with their supplier. You might discover what name the supplier uses.

I have six Imperial Koi Swordtails from a private seller, who got his breeding pairs from Imperial Tropicals in Florida. My swordtails are not "albino" and so they do not have the red eyes.

Lyretail swordtail males have problems breeding because of their elongated gonopodium. There are a few swordtail experts here at Fishlore: emeraldking and chromedome52

 

I don't know too much about those but they are gorgeous! Hopefully someone can shed some light on your post.

 

You can't call them kohaku for "kohaku" means bi-color. So, two colors. This is a tri-color. If it's white based, it's a sanke. If it's black based, it's a showa. But yes, they do have the wag finnage...

Yeah, the problem is that the Sanke ones tend to be more like a calico, which I guess is the issue? A lot of people have Sanke Swordtails, but the description seems off for exactly this kind... Which is the issue and why I was looking for the particular fish's name.

Nice looking fish! Maybe your LFS could put you in touch with their supplier. You might discover what name the supplier uses.

I have six Imperial Koi Swordtails from a private seller, who got his breeding pairs from Imperial Tropicals in Florida. My swordtails are not "albino" and so they do not have the red eyes.

Lyretail swordtail males have problems breeding because of their elongated gonopodium. There are a few swordtail experts here at Fishlore: emeraldking and chromedome52

Yeah, I will try to do that again. The woman at the shop was quite pleasant, but the fish were also in a tank with a bunch of other swords, so I wonder if it was just a mixed bag so to speak. I need to make sure the fry do survive and see what is produced. I'm in the process of getting another tank set up to ensure that and I've been successful with my guppy fry so I don't see a reason this should fail IMO.

I am aware of the issue with the males and that they do tend to be able to breed more as juveniles, so I was a bit worried he wouldn't be able to reproduce, but at $7 I couldn't turn him down! I'm not sure if there's artificial insemination for fish haha.

 

Wag Koi lyretail or veiltail swords.
The male will not be able to reproduce the length of his gonopodium makes it impossible for him to breed with a female, you can get a koi lyretail to breed with your female (or a regular koi), the black tail is a dominant color so offspring should show that trait - you will have to find a male with a usable gonopodium (meaning it is short enough to function as it is supposed to, there are several koi lyretail males that have a properly sized gonopodium to mate).

 

The two fish at the start of this thread would be called Lyretail Wag Koi. They are not veiltails, the extra elongation on the caudal fin is from past damage that grew out. It happens quite frequently with these fish, they are very susceptible to fin rot in anything but perfect conditions. The Wag markings aren't very good, as the black does not cover the entire dorsal and caudal fin.

Lyretail males do not breed when they are younger, not sure where that got started. The gonopodium does not start out "usable" and then get longer. The necessary hooks for breeding are deformed as soon as the gonopodium starts to develop. The only way to breed lyretail to lyretail is artificial insemination. This has been accomplished, but the fish are not available to the public. Fortunately, the Lyretail gene is dominant, so any regular male can fertilize a Lyretail female, and you will get 50% Lyres.

A lot of people confuse Hifin with Lyretail. In Hifin, the only fin that is elongated is the dorsal, the males have perfectly functional gonopodiums. There is a lot of variation in the shape of the dorsal, as there are several pairs of modifier genes that affect it. Some people use the term "Hifin Lyretail" for regular Lyretails, but it actually means a fish that has both genes. Such fish are usually identifiable by a difference in the elongation of the dorsal fin.

 

A lot of people confuse Hifin with Lyretail. In Hifin, the only fin that is elongated is the dorsal, the males have perfectly functional gonopodiums.

Simpson swordtails are also like that...
Overhere at some stores they mix up those names as well. As long as they see elongated fins whatever the shape, they label them as lyretail, hifin or veiltails. But that happens in commercial trade quite often. At least overhere in Europe.