Looking for info on breeding angelfish :)

  1. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    Hello every body :)

    Here is the agenda, I currently have a 45G tank with baby koi in and I have been thinking of what to use this tank for once the koi go into the pond after the winter, I have had many ideas go through my head but I have decided what I definitly want to do :D
    Breed angelfish :D

    However, I have never tried breeding these before so I need all of the information I can get.

    First off, here are my questions,

    1) I want to get a group of 4 angels, 5 at the most, and put them all into the 45G and let them grow together, hopefully forming atleast one pair. I want to put one of my 2 angels I have in the 72G into the tank, however he will be about 3 times the size of the new comers, will he be too big for them?

    2) I want to buy all of the angels at the same time, however I do not want to get all of them from the same tank at the LFS because this will likely be a group of siblings, so I would like to buy each baby from a different tank at the store. However if I do this I will have to get a mixture of colour types, if any at all, which colour types are suitable to breed together?

    3) Final question, below I have posted a picture of my 2 angels I have at the moment, however one of them does not seem to be growing as fast as the other, so am I right in saying that I should not breed this angel.
    The one I am talking about is the one higher in the pic and the one below is the one I want to breed, the lower angel is around 6 months younger than the higher angel, however he is bigger.
    Picture 019.jpg

    Thanks,
    Ben
     
  2. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    Another question,

    I have just been reading a commercial angelfish breeders tips and he says that angels with any defects, such as bad fins, missing body parts, not swimming properly, must be culled and removed from the hobby.
    It sounds a bit extreme, is it really neccesary?
     

  3. Butterfly Moderator Moderator Member

    1 & 2) Putting a group of angels together to grow up and pair is an excellent idea. Getting them from different tanks at the store doesn't guarantee they are not siblings but getting them from different stores or a breeder will. Mixing a full grown angel with angels much smaller may be a problem as the larger may pick on them.
    Angels at the pet store haven't been bred for any particular color, fin type or body shape but you will get some interesting patterns from that. In other words they have a large gene pool(they most likely haven't been bred back and forth to get a certain trait) so you won't know what their babies will look like. Any of the colors and fin types will breed together.
    3) Having been raised together with the same water parameters and food available I would think the smaller angel is just smaller not stunted. I would feel comfortable breeding either or both.
    I have a female that is smaller than all of my males and she throws the most beautiful babies but she has always just been smaller and daintier.
    If you feel uncomfortable breeding the smaller then by all means don't, Sometimes gut feelings are all we have to go on :)
    Culling is a necessary part of the hobby. But how you cull is up to you. I have a tank that my culls go into and they aren't bred they are just my babies :) When they are sexable they are separated. Some are given away(depending on the defect) as pets only.
    Angels that have defects tend to intensify that defect when bred and that's not good.(It's like breeding other animals with defects) The breeder was speaking from a breeder stand point. He's trying to breed as close to perfect as possible. Nobody wants to buy angels with defects.

    One of the things I noticed when I bred my first angels was when I did the daily water changes on eggs, wigglers and fry for the first month was that I didn't have as many fin defects. ANY ammonia, Nitrites or Nitrates will cause their fins to be mis-shaped because they are growing so fast during this time. Since you are feeding a couple of times a day it's terribly easy to have parameter spikes.
    It's an hard job at times but well worth it. Hope I've helped a little.
    Carol
     

  4. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    Wow, you've helped more than a little :D that is great advice :)
    I now have one or two more questions :D, and just some responses to what you have said :).

    Resoponses :)

    1 & 2) I've decided that the angels I'm going to get for my group will hopefully be, 2-3 Koi angels :), 2 marble angels and 1 solid black angel :) and I have decided that I will not be adding my current angel into the group.

    3) The smaller angel has actually been in the 72G ever since I got it, however the larger angel started in a 6G hex when it was tiny, it was then moved into a 34G and then moved into the 72G after a couple of months after.

    Question :)

    How do I perform a cull?
    I am the type of person that will look at the deformed angels and feel sorry for them so culling will be difficult for me :(
     

  5. Butterfly Moderator Moderator Member

    I look at my fish kind of like people(I know don't humanize our pets:anim_35:)they come with their own set of genes. You never know what's in their background unless they've been line bred for several generations.
    Culling is one of my most unfavorite things to do. I can't see them well when their small so I have to wait a month or two and use a magnifying glass. Here are the angelfish societies standards and some explanations maybe it will be helpful. You may have to copy and paste since their links don't open well.
    http://theangelfishsociety.org/standards.htm
    Scroll down and click on culling guide
    Carol
     
  6. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    Thanks again Carol for another great set of advice and a very good link :D
    The culling methods sound so harsh, this may sound horrible but would taking the deformed fish out of the tank in a net and then holding the net in very cold water an acceptable way to cull the fish?
     
  7. Butterfly Moderator Moderator Member

    The cold water wouldn't kill them very fast and the chlorine and chloramines in the tap water might be painful. So that wouldn't work.
    This is why my culls go into another tank and if they live they live and if they don't.. they don't. But this is a personal choice.
    I make it sound like you will have lots of culls and unless your raising hundreds at one time you won't have many.
    Glad to help :)
    Carol
     
  8. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    I only plan on raising one batch of babies at a time :)

    I wouldl ike to do the following,
    1) Find a pair from my group
    2) Remove all of the others and let the pair spawn
    3) Allow the parents to look after the eggs even if it does take multiple attempts for them
    4) Keep the parents with the fry until the fry are strong free swimmers then move the adults into my cichlid community
    5) Raise the fry to a suitable size then take them to the LFS for store credit :D
    6) Go back to step 2 :)

    But my main focus for now is culling so this is what I shall be researching for now :)

    EDIT: Thankyou so much for all of your help Carol :D
     
  9. Butterfly Moderator Moderator Member

    Welcome as always :)
    Frequently if angels are kept in a tank by themselves when they spawn they do real good about not eating the eggs but freeswimming fry are prone to be a snack at about three days :)
    Carol
     
  10. rae64 Well Known Member Member

    for fish that are a little deformed, just a smaller fin or a little trouble swimming, many people just give them away to loving homes where they will not breed. since you have cichlids, depending on the type, you could maybe use your fry as feeders. i know some people do this, even if it is kinda harsh.... i dont think i could do it. also, there is a clove oil method that puts the fish to sleep, then a toxin is administered. i'm not familiar with this method, but its worth reading about :)
     
  11. platy ben Well Known Member Member

    Thanks rae, never thought of using them for food, In my cichlid community I have, firemouths, a blood parrot and bolivian rams, I also have a synodontis angelicus in there and he loves to eat little fish lol.
     
  12. rae64 Well Known Member Member

    haha lol yeah they would make healty snacks :p
     
  13. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member