Lethargic Juvenile Oranda Help

Discussion in 'Goldfish' started by LC1, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    Tank

    What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gallons
    How long has the tank been running? First week of January
    Does it have a filter? Yes
    Does it have a heater? Yes
    What is the water temperature? 82 degrees
    What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) One juvenile Oranda, approx. 2"

    Maintenance
    How often do you change the water? Every 3rd or 4th day
    How much of the water do you change? 50-60%
    What do you use to treat your water? Prime
    Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacuum

    *Parameters - Very Important
    Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
    What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater Master Kit
    What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

    Ammonia: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 10 ppm
    pH: 8.2

    Feeding
    How often do you feed your fish? Once daily
    How much do you feed your fish? Just a pinch
    What brand of food do you feed your fish? Fluval Bug Bites, Repashy gel food, SF Brand: Bloodworms, Brine Shrimp and the various cubes of the Freshwater Combo Pack and blanched veggies: spinach, cucumber or de-shelled peas (this particular fish has only eaten brine shrimp with spirulina and the Repashy gel food, since he's a newbie)
    Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Frozen

    Illness & Symptoms
    How long have you had this fish? 4 Days - purchased on 4/7
    How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Tuesday 4/9
    In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Very lethargic and stays head to one particular corner of the tank. Very little swimming activity in comparison to day 1 and 2
    Have you started any treatment for the illness? He is in a quarantine tank with aquarium salt
    Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Apart from the damaged dorsal, he was very active
    How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Was very curious, swimming about and checking everything out upon entering QT tank. Now he/she just floats at the top in one corner of the tank

    Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now) Newly purchased Oranda was active the first two days after putting into QT tank and the last two days has been very lethargic, no visible damage or illness on the body (apart from the damage on his dorsal fin). He ate fine day 1 and 2, but since activity level was down I didn't feed Tuesday or Wednesday, in hopes that would perk him up some. IMG_2795.jpgIMG_2801.jpg
     
  2. AJE

    AJEFishlore VIPMember

    Have you tried increasing the surface agitation?
     
  3. Skavatar

    SkavatarWell Known MemberMember

    was the salt added after or before he became lethargic?

    82'F is a bit high.

    did his fins and wen have black when you bought him?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    I have an air stone in there and water level is about an inch below the black frame. Should I drop it down a bit more?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    Salt was added to the tank before I added him, 1 tbs to the 10 gallons. I have him at 82 degrees because some of the tank mates had Ich and I was trying to speed up the cycle if he was incubating with the increased temp. (My main tank is @72 degrees)
    He had the black on his fins but honestly I dont think he had it on his wen. If he did it wasn’t as much
     
  6. Skavatar

    SkavatarWell Known MemberMember

    hmm, he should be ok with the salt. did you acclimate him to the higher temp?
    the black on his fins could be from his juvenile colors or it could be from some ammonia burns while at the store. not sure baout
     
  7. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    Yes, I floated the bag for 30ish minutes before taking him out by hand and putting him into the tank. Would ammonia cause the black on the wen too?
     
  8. Skavatar

    SkavatarWell Known MemberMember

    yes, it can. usually the black from ammonia burns don't show up until a few days later.

    keep up with the water changes, and test the parameters.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    I’m sad to report that the little Oranda didn’t make it. He started pineconing Sunday and I started a medicated food(Kanaplex/Focus). Yesterday morning his tummy was sunken so I used close oil to euthanize him. Poor little guy..
    This morning my calico butterfly seemed off and this evening sure enough his scales are starting to rise. I am lost here. These two fish were never in the same tank and I use completely different equipment to clean the tanks.
    What do I do? How do I save my calico?? I’m so upset, I don’t want to loose him too. He’s not active and staying close to the surface and definitely swollen with scales starting to poke up, mainly in the gill area. The rest of the crew are normal so far.
     
  10. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    If the scales have started rising immediately give your calico an epsom salt bath and start on kanaplex. Epsom salt will reduce dropsy swelling and kanaplex will address the infection. I believe you've caught it early enough. For epsom salt baths, use PURE EPSOM SALT (MAGNESIUM SULFATE). Mix in 1 TABLESPOON in one gallon of tank water (or temp matched water) and place the fish in for 10-15 minutes.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    Got it! Once daily only for both the meds and dip? And can I make medicated food and administer that way? Or dose into the tank? I ask because I haven’t been able to sanitize the QT tank since I removed the sick Oranda yesterday and don’t have another spare tank to put him into until tomorrow
     
  12. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    Do the epsom salt baths once daily until bloating resolves. As for kanaplex, I haven't heard of anyone administer it through food, so I'm not sure. I typically do it through the water column. Do you have any 10 or more gallon rubbermaid bins? I use those as QT tanks. If you have one you can use that instead of an actual tank.

    Edit: Since you're in Sacramento it is fairly late, so if you can have the tank ready by tomorrow that'd be ideal. You could maybe give the bath and start the meds tomorrow with the tank. But if you have a bin that'd be perfect.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

    Thank you for quick advice the other night. eMy calico seems perkier and the epsom dips seem to releave the bloat somewhat. First thing Thurs AM I got a 10 gallon tote, well two actually and treating them both the same, temp and med wise. Then I move him every 24 hrs to 100% clean water after his evening epsom dip. What is your opinion on using Metroplex in with the Kanaplex? I’ve been doing a lot of reading these last few days and have seen that combo mentioned more than once. I just don’t want to over do it and cause more harm than good. I’m so worried, I feel like a helicopter over his tub
     

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  14. OP
    OP
    LC1

    LC1New MemberMember

  15. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    Metroplex x Kanaplex to me seems more like something to knock multiple internal parasites, but I am not sure. I have not heard of metronidazole being used to treat many bacterial infections other than hexamita. Kanaplex is already a hard medication as it is, so maybe not mix it in. That fish is absolutely beautiful. I would continue with the current treatment. Do frequent large water changes. When I was treating my goldie with a bad infection that developed mild dropsy I did 100% water changes everyday, replacing the kanaplex.
     
  16. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    To give you a bit of hope, youtuber Lori's Heartland had a Goldie who was pineconed worse than yours, and with this treatment the fish was healed.