Lethargic Black Moor Bottom Sitting

My black Moor who lives by himself in a 30 gallon tank has been bottom sitting for about a week now. A few weeks back he had a parasite, we gave medicine to cure the parasite and he was improving but think that killed off all the good bacteria in the tank and we had a drastic ammonia spike. We've done a couple daily 75% water changes with some smaller 10% changes in between to try and avoid putting him into shock. We got the ammonia back down to close to zero where the water quality should be fine but it's been 5 days since fixing the ammonia problem and he seems to be getting worse.

We've been trying to feed him a pea each day, he eats a little but spits most of it out like he can't digest properly. Today we added aquarium salt to lesson the burden on his poor body but he's continuing to decline.

He doesn't have any visible redness or blood around his gills but he just sits at the bottom of the tank tucked next to his rocks with his fins pressed down like he's really sick. When I walk over to him he wakes up a tiny bit and kind of floats along the floor but doesn't look like he has enough energy to swim around.

We're afraid he's not going to make it through the night. Any ideas on what else to try??

 

Hello welcome to fishlore.
What symptoms did he have that made you think parasites? was it external, what did it look like?
What medicine did you use?
what are the results of tests for ammonia, nitrite nittrate and ph?

when my fish are this sick, I try to get them to eat. Maybe add the best food I can find, like frozen foods and roll it it some garlic paste.

Sorry about your fish,!

 

Thank you so much for responding!! He seems so much weaker after another night. Poor little guy!!

The parasite was external, there were white spots all over him so we thought it was ich at first. Two treatments of ichX did not help, so then we tried EM Erythromycin one does sitting for 5 days and that helped the white spots go away.

He started getting a bit better but then after a few days started deteriorating again. We noted a big ammonia spike and did the water changes which haven't helped.

I did another set of tests this morning and the pH appears very high, close to 8.0 on the high range scale.

The ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests all show zero as the result so now I'm no longer thinking it's an issue of ammonia poisoning but moreso the really high pH that's making it too acidic for him.

Any ideas of what could cause this or how to solve it? Could the previous medicines have done this and more frequent water changes will help? My fiancé put this little brick looking medium in the tank a few weeks back that she says was in the filter and helps restore the natural ecosystem that the medicine killed off, could that be causing the pH spike??

Any help is appreciated, I hate seeing Barbosa suffer!!!

 

The parasite was external, there were white spots all over him so we thought it was ich at first. Two treatments of ichX did not help, so then we tried EM Erythromycin one does sitting for 5 days and that helped the white spots go away.

I wonder if the white spots might have been epistylis instead? Not sure if that's been mentioned to you yet, but if ich-x was ineffective, that may be the reason.

He started getting a bit better but then after a few days started deteriorating again. We noted a big ammonia spike and did the water changes which haven't helped.

Have you tested your tap water? My tap generally runs with low levels of ammonia already in, so I have to be strategic with the timing of my WCs. Might help to know what's going on in your source water.

I did another set of tests this morning and the pH appears very high, close to 8.0 on the high range scale.

The ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests all show zero as the result so now I'm no longer thinking it's an issue of ammonia poisoning but moreso the really high pH that's making it too acidic for him.

To clear this up-- low pH readings mean higher acidity. High pH readings indicate more basic water, generally with a higher mineral content. 8.0 isn't outside the livable range for a goldfish, but if the change came rapidly, it certainly might've shocked him. This is another instance where knowing the pH of your tap water might help.

Any ideas of what could cause this or how to solve it? Could the previous medicines have done this and more frequent water changes will help? My fiancé put this little brick looking medium in the tank a few weeks back that she says was in the filter and helps restore the natural ecosystem that the medicine killed off, could that be causing the pH spike??

Any help is appreciated, I hate seeing Barbosa suffer!!!

Hoping for the best for your little guy. If that brick was in the filter previously, it's better off staying in the filter-- the bacteria need high levels of aeration to live, which the running filter provides. Sitting in too much still water, the media can't do much to process waste in the water column. Bottom-sitting could certainly be a sign of stress from the previous rounds of meds, or from fluctuating water parameters. As far as pH swings, it would be more concerning if the number suddenly dropped low, as that would indicate acidity and a pH crash. If your tap water doesn't run as hard as 8.0, it'd definitely be a good idea to figure out where the high readings are coming from. Maybe other users can chime in on whether the meds you've mentioned using affect pH.

 

Hello!! I tested the pH level of the tap water this morning and it came out to around neutral at a 7.0 so I'm trying to figure out the root cause of why the pH balance would have gone up to an 8.0 but honestly less concerned about that now since you don't believe 8.0 is what would be killing him, maybe just causing a bit of extra shock/stress. Typically our tap water is clean and runs close to zero for all normally tested parameters.

If it was epistylis, is it possible that our dose of Erythromycin killed off the external signs but that it's still inside him?? My fiancé is very apprehensive to add another dose of medicine to the tank which at this point could be a death sentence if we guess wrong. I'm panicking because I fear if we do nothing that he's going to die anyway posted another picture of him and he looks soo weak!!

I may just try another small 10-20% water change to bring the pH down slightly and see with the aquarium salt we added yesterday if he eventually improves unless someone has an idea that I can get my fiance on-board with!!

 

Hello!! I tested the pH level of the tap water this morning and it came out to around neutral at a 7.0 so I'm trying to figure out the root cause of why the pH balance would have gone up to an 8.0 but honestly less concerned about that now since you don't believe 8.0 is what would be killing him, maybe just causing a bit of extra shock/stress. Typically our tap water is clean and runs close to zero for all normally tested parameters.

If it was epistylis, is it possible that our dose of Erythromycin killed off the external signs but that it's still inside him?? My fiancé is very apprehensive to add another dose of medicine to the tank which at this point could be a death sentence if we guess wrong. I'm panicking because I fear if we do nothing that he's going to die anyway posted another picture of him and he looks soo weak!!

I wish I had experience treating epistylis myself and could advise better After double-checking sources on treatment, interestingly I've found Ich-X to still be the suggested medication. But I also understand from some extra reading that Ich-X is incompatible with Seachem Prime, which would certainly be an issue in my tank. What dechlorinator do you use?

I may just try another small 10-20% water change to bring the pH down slightly and see with the aquarium salt we added yesterday if he eventually improves unless someone has an idea that I can get my fiance on-board with!!

A series of small water changes to even the tank out with clear water certainly can't hurt. It will also dilute the salt, unless you replace a proportional amount each time you add fresh water, which is just worth bearing in mind. I find salt very useful in some specific cases, but have never made general, long-term use of it the way I know some keepers do. I've got my fingers crossed for Barbossa.

 

Thats very interesting to hear about the Seachem Prime and IchX incompatibility because that's exactly what we use in our tank along with Seachem Stability when we do the water changes. I'll look into that more.

I had discussed with my fiance adding a proportionate amount of salt after a water change so that's a fantastic note to keep in mind!!

 

Thats very interesting to hear about the Seachem Prime and IchX incompatibility because that's exactly what we use in our tank along with Seachem Stability when we do the water changes. I'll look into that more.

Apparently it has to do with the sulfur content in Prime. I've seen speculation that the reaction between Prime and Ich-X is no longer an issue 48-72 hours after Prime has been added to the tank, but it's not something I've had firsthand experience with. I'm not sure if the reaction only neutralizes the medication, or if it results in further water quality issues. Hoping you find the answers you need in further reading

 

Hmmm yea the ichX was over a week ago so I don't think it's affecting the oxygenation in the tank but perhaps did impact how effective our treatment was. We found a fish veterinarian online and are filling out the form now so hopefully we can get a video conference with then today! He's starting to open his gills real wide like he's laboring the breath but he's not trying to suck air in his mouth and isn't going to the top to get air so I'm thinking it's gotta be something internal from the parasite and not any sort of damage to his gills.

 

Glad there was a good professional available for contact, hoping your little fish is on the road to recovery!! Sounds like you're on track and doing the best by your goldie.

 

Thank you everyone for all the help. Unfortunately little Barbosa passed away around noon today so we'll be giving him a beautiful burial. I cannot express how much gratitude we have for everyone who gave us such fast responses in trying to save him!! This is an amazing community that I wish we would have found sooner!! I wish you all the best of luck with your aquariums!!

 

Thank you everyone for all the help. Unfortunately little Barbosa passed away around noon today so we'll be giving him a beautiful burial. I cannot express how much gratitude we have for everyone who gave us such fast responses in trying to save him!! This is an amazing community that I wish we would have found sooner!! I wish you all the best of luck with your aquariums!!

Please let us know what the vet says. I strongly doubt he was ammonia poisoned and if he had Epistylis you’d be able to see them, as they are strictly external parasites that resemble Ich.

In the picture your fish doesn’t have clamped fins, which you’d expect to see if he was in pain or great discomfort so he may not be quite as miserable as you fear, just very weak.

Do you have tests for GH and KH? If not, can you get them or get the water tested for them? Low GH can make it very difficult for fish to osmoregulate properly and low KH can cause unstable pH.

How long have you had this guy?

 

Thank you everyone for all the help. Unfortunately little Barbosa passed away around noon today so we'll be giving him a beautiful burial. I cannot express how much gratitude we have for everyone who gave us such fast responses in trying to save him!! This is an amazing community that I wish we would have found sooner!! I wish you all the best of luck with your aquariums!!

Very sorry to hear it SIP Barbosa, it's clear he was well-loved.

 

Thank you everyone for all the help. Unfortunately little Barbosa passed away around noon today so we'll be giving him a beautiful burial. I cannot express how much gratitude we have for everyone who gave us such fast responses in trying to save him!! This is an amazing community that I wish we would have found sooner!! I wish you all the best of luck with your aquariums!!

I am so sorry. My sincere condolences.