Kuhlis, Neon Tetras, Yoyos, brittlenose, comet goldfish and African Dwarf Frogs

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Forums' started by RingneckParrot, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. RingneckParrotNew MemberMember

    Hi, well for Christmas this year I decided I wanted to add more fish to my tropical fish tank. Since some of my gold fish have unfortunatley passed away, I only have one comet goldfish and 1 brittlenose loach/pleco. I have previously had guppies, mollies, a clown loach, a black moore and a few other goldfish. I am particularly interested in loaches and since I haven't had many fish for a while I was just wondering if maybe a couple of kuhli loaches and a yoyo/pakistani loach would be ok to start with and are they compatible? I have small pebble substrate (ranging from 3mm - 5mm with a couple of larger stones aswell) but unfortunatley not many plants which I am hoping to buy some more as I heard that the Kuhlis love lots of hiding places. I haven't got any live plants yet though, they are all fake. Is it a need to have live plants in the tank or just plastic or is it good to have a mixture? Anyway my main question is are African Dwarf frogs, brittlenose loaches/plecos, comet goldfish, yoyo/pakistani loaches and neon tetras all compatible? I can't tell how many gallons my tank is but it is about 40cm long, 40m high, and about 30cm wide.
    Thankyou! :)
  2. YeoyWell Known MemberMember

    That tank is probably too small to try all those things. ADF's need smaller tanks, as they struggle to swim to the surface to breed. Paki Loaches get quite big and need schools. Your tank seems quite small, I would stick with Khulis. And Goldfish are coldwater fish unfortunately. Neons will go with just about anything (that won't eat them).

  3. JDcichlidloverWell Known MemberMember

    Live plants are always good :) they help change nitrates and add more oxygen to the water. My amazon sword grows like crazy and I have it planted in gravel. Java moss also grows well and you can make it stick to decor. You can also get slate to make caves. The more hiding places a fish has, the more likely they are to come out :)

    I agree, it seems small. Loaches prefer to be in groups of at least 3. There's great info on fishlore fish profiles on the different loaches. That way you get one perfect for your sized tank, there is a calculator at the bottom of the page.

    Good luck :D

  4. Skysong87Valued MemberMember

    Hi and welcome to fishlore!

    I'm sorry to tell you you're fish tank is much too small! It works out to be about 13 gallons or 49 litres.

    Comet goldfish need more than 250 litre tanks and most people recommend ponds for them. They can grow up to 35cm long ... Which is longer than your tank is wide.

    I would recommend getting rid of both your fish or getting a larger tank. Out of all the fish you mentioned in your post only 3 of them are suitable for your size tank, neon tetras, guppies and ADFs. Everything else requires bigger tanks.

  5. RingneckParrotNew MemberMember

    Thanks everyone for your info and comments! I really appreciate it! I'm just a bit confused though, my friend she has a slightly smaller tank than mine yet she has 2 platys, 3 balloon mollies, 1 zebra danio, 1 yoyo/pakistani, 5-6 rummynose and a brittlenose!!! They seem to be coping fine though...so I dunno? Anyway I was very shocked to hear that a goldfish needs 250 litre tanks yet petstores get away with selling them in miniture tanks!!! Anyway I have a heater in my tank for my loach could that be bad for my goldfish? Anyway, if the goldfish passes on then I don't think i'll get any more because of how much tank space they require and also i'm going to focus more on tropical fish. I'm really keen on Kuhlis and yoyos but the question is do I have enough room? I really want an ADF but my tank might be too deep and it still needs to breathe...hmm...
  6. Skysong87Valued MemberMember

    There is certainly a lot of false information out there regarding fish keeping including pet/fish shops. Some places simply might not care if your fish die since you'll have to come back in and buy more stuff when it dies but I think generally it is just staff that are not bothered to properly research the requirements of the fish they sell.

    I also have a friend that knows nothing about fish requirements! She currently has 4 black moor goldfish in a small fish bowl with no filter ... Honestly I don't know how they're still alive.

    Not all goldfish need as much space as comets but they do need more water than most fish due to the fact that they have an extremely large bio load (they poop a lot!). Fancy goldfish (the chubby varieties including the black moor) need around 100 litres for 1 fish and then an extra 40 litres for each additional fish.

    You've taken a great first step in trying to learn more about fish and I'm sure this forum will help a lot!

    I would still recommend getting rid of your current stock before you even think of getting anything else to put in the tank. You could certainly put a few ADFs in then. :)

    Also you may want to read up on the nitrogen cycle (words should be a link). At least a basic understanding of it is needed to successfully keep fish.
  7. AvaValued MemberMember

    Welcome to FishLore! I'm glad you're taking the time to research before you leap into more fish. Yes, that tank is definitely too small for what you want to do. No, having the heater won't hurt your goldfish. It's actually pretty handy if your room temp fluxes a lot like mine does. You can use it too give the tank a steady temp - just make sure you don't set it too high. I'd shoot for between 66 and 72. Anything higher is considered tropical.

    Lots of people don't research before they buy fish - which is how you end up with a tank like your friend has. The fish might look okay right now, but later on when they start to outgrow the tank they're in.....it won't be pretty.

    I'd also keep in mind that if you're leaning torwards ADF's, they aren't the fastest swimmers either. It's something to keep in mind for feeding time. You don't want them to starve to death because they can't compete with the fish they're living with.

    I'd also like to point out that you don't have to have all of the fish in the same tank. You can still have the ADF's and the loaches, etc. Just put the frogs in the smaller tank and get a larger tank(s) for the other ones that you want that need more space. "Just say yes - to MTS."
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  8. ButterflyModeratorModerator Member

    Welcome to FishLore!

    Goldfish and Loaches are not compatible. Sorry goldfish are temperate water fish meaning they like cooler water. 60F- 75F is good although 75f seems a little high. They are HUGE waste producers.

    Loaches are tropical fish and need extremely clean and warmer water 76F to 82F. Mine were more active and happy at the top edge of this temperature range.
    Here's some information and pictures of the loaches you mentioned.
    I have some of both kinds of Kuhli Loaches.
    Hope that helps :)
  9. soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Weather loaches and possibly hillstreams are but they both need Bigger tank and hillstreams need specialized set ups.
  10. AvaValued MemberMember

    Whoops! Forgot to put in that goldfish and loaches didn't belong together. Good save!
  11. RingneckParrotNew MemberMember

    Thanks again everybody for all your quick responses and comments!!! I think I might give my goldfish to a friend as she likes goldfish and it's using up space...:/ But I don't think i'll get rid of my lil' brittlenose as he is not only a nice, placid fish but is very productive in cleaning up any uneaten flakes and algae in the tank. Though what I was wondering was that if I did get ADFs (not saying I will, much more research needs to be done first!) since my tank is 40cm deep, would it cause stress on them from having to keep on swimming a fair way up to get air and then having to swim all the way down again? And also with alot of amphibians and reptiles you need licences, but would you still need one for an ADF? And also whats the minimum size tank for an ADF, because I was thinking, if I got a smaller tank with a filter and heater could I possibly keep a betta/siamese fighter in there aswell as an ADF? Also one more thing, would it be cruel to keep yoyos as just one because my friend has one and it's living quite happily by itself, along with a commuity of other fish and she said (i know some of you might say don't listen to pet shops but she said that this guy knew what he was talking about) that one of the staff members in the petshop said you can keep them in groups it's just that they can be aggressive to one another (something like the pecking order???) but you can keep them alone. I would like to find a way of housing kuhlis and yoyos together as they are my favourite fish...
    Thankyou! :)
  12. Skysong87Valued MemberMember

    I don't suppose there would be any way for you to get a slightly larger tank? Of course it would depend on money and available space but it would help a lot. It would give your fish more room and would give you more options of what you could keep in the tank. It doesn't have to be huge by any account but anything less than 75L is just too small for most fish.

    I was going to go into detail about possibly keeping an ADF but I decided to do some research on it since I've been thinking about getting one as well. They're cute! However turns out they're also illegal to own in Australia :(

    In your current tank you could maybe get away with keeping 3 or 4 Kuhli loaches. However Kuhli loaches are shy fish so the more you have of them the more comfortable they feel so the more you see them. But in your size tank even 4 kuhlis would be pushing it. I currently have 3 kuhlis but have ordered 6 more to make a total of 9 and even then I was thinking of adding a few more.

    And I'm sorry but I'd have to say no to a yoyo loach in your current tank.
    1. They grow up to 15cm, not a lot of room for even 1.
    2. They are EXTREMELY active, they zigzag all over the place.
    3. They are also very social fish. While one may be able to live by itself it doesn't mean it's happy.

    P.S. I take it that's your young ringneck in the photo? He/she is very cute! Have you had him/her long? I have 2 adult ringnecks in an aviary outside :)
  13. kinezumi89Fishlore VIPMember

    Welcome to FishLore! :;toast

    Your friend's fish may be "coping" in such a small tank, but they're certainly not thriving. I can see how you'd want to keep your pleco (I have a bristlenose myself) but that size tank is simply not large enough. Plecos are huge waste producers, and though BNs are some of the smaller ones, a 20 gallon tank (75L) is the smallest recommended size.

    I agree that it seems like an upgrade is in order for you :) There are too many fish that you want that require a larger tank.
  14. JRC3Well Known MemberMember

    The key word is "selling". And then reselling. Sadly that is the industry.

    Some people disagree with   but I have found it to be fairly accurate.

    Good luck with you fishies.
  15. RingneckParrotNew MemberMember

    Yes, she is my baby and i've only had her for a year and i've bred her. She is absolutley beautiful and when my cockatiels had chicks she was 'helping' the parents look after them and cuddling up to the babies! Awww... so cute! She is also very tame and she is quite special as her father is lime green and her Mum is olive green and she turned out grey! :):):)
  16. YeoyWell Known MemberMember

    A beautiful bird!

    I was just thinking that of ADF's. A lot of American stores carry them, but as our amphibians are in a battle with the cane-toads and the fungus attack at the moment, I can't imagine they would let a critter that would thrive in our water-ways into the country. There might be some small native frogs you could keep? I don't know about licence requirements though.
  17. RingneckParrotNew MemberMember

    I suppose all it takes is couple of frogs to jump out and start breeding...and...well I don't think i'd like to see the outcome :/ Anyway that's a shame, since they are fully aquatic and all... Anyway, I don't think i'll go with frogs afterall and I suppose you would have to have a licence anyway, but even if I did get a licence someone told me it would take about 2 YEARS to get it all sorted out and everything... besides, I don't think i'd like to wait that long just to get a couple of frogs...Anyway, i'll have a think about it...
    Anyway i've been having a quick browse on ebay and there are some FANTASTIC tanks for sale!!! 4ft, 6ft...8ft!!! Accessories included!!! Unfortunatley though they are either too big, too much money or too far away... -_- I am looking for tanks over 75 litres so I could maybe keep more fish :)
  18. Skysong87Valued MemberMember

    Lol, doesn't that always seem to be the way. Another good site to look for used tanks is gumtree ( ).

    If you want to give me the specifics of what you're looking for then I would be more than happy to help :)
  19. YeoyWell Known MemberMember

    8ft is quite big! I have found some great ones but I have trouble moving them or getting them to me because I don't have a ute!

    I think a 4ft is a good size to start with a small community. Get simple-care fish, a good variety, and learn more about their needs and keeping the water pristine. And the maintenance involved in a big tank. Then you can upsize or get more big tanks from there!

    I agree with the above too, gumtree has some great ones. Also try   ?
  20. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    welcome to the forum

    Not anything against your friend, but that is not a well stocked tank in my opinion and not something to emulate. There are lots of people that keep their fish in "poor" conditions, and by poor I mean in less than ideal conditions. What is ideal? Well, that's something we all have to decide for ourselves. Ideal is not in a tank, so right from the beginning we are making compromises keeping the fish. The question is to what degree will you compromise what the fish needs for what you want.

    Zebra danios, for example, are very active schooling fish, so ideal would be plenty of room for a huge group of them. Chances are we aren't going to keep them in a pond, so we confine them to a tank. What is big enough? That depends on how large a school you keep and how much swim space you want to give them. Since swimming is very important to them, I prefer to give more than the "minimum". Obviously we can't keep 1000 zebra danios, so we compromise the school size to make them fit in the tank we've chosen. How many is enough? 5-6 is the magic number that's always thrown out there for schooling fish, in my opinion because it's in the middle between 10 (which ought to be the minimum) and 1-2 (shouldn't be keeping them). Is the fish going to die because you only have one and keep it in too small of a tank? Yes eventually, but so will the fish you keep in ideal conditions.

    The fish often live in spite of how they are kept, which is really a testament to the fish. But just because they CAN be kept that way doesn't mean they SHOULD be. At the end of the day, it's up to you to provide for the needs of your fish. Like with anything, some are more serious about that than others, but we must not forget that this is a hobby. Granted, a hobby involving living creatures, which to me means it should be taken more seriously than the likes of knitting or stamp collecting.

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