Kuhlis and sand

monkeyfish
  • #1
I just got a new kuhlI and i'm thinking about replacing my gravel substrate with sand. however, there was a warning label on the package saying not to use sand with bottom dwelling/burrowing fish. i've also read on the forum that kuhlis like to burrow and they should have a substrate of fine gravel or sand. what should I do? advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Butterfly
  • #2
Kuhlis do great with sand What kind of sand is it that it says not to use it with bottom dwellers/burrowers? I use pool filter sand (doesn't need rinsing)
Your kuhlI will be happier with more of their kind, they really aren't solitary fish.
Carol
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
its black Tahitian moon sand. here's where it said not to use with bottom dwellers/burrowers:
 
Drea
  • #4
when I had kuhli's, I had small gravel, but for them I had things for them to go under and "hide" in...that seemed to suit my little Gus just fine.
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
yea, I have lots of rocks and plants for him/her to hide in, but I just thought that sand would be nice too.
 
JVzer0
  • #6
One option would be to call or e-mail Carib Sea and ask them what the rationale is behind that warning.
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
ok, I emailed carib-sea earlier, but haven't gotten a reply yet. also I found a bag of construction sand in my garage. I think it is supposed to be used for mixing concrete or grout or something. I was wondering if it would be ok in my fish tank, cause then I wouldn't have to buy anything. I think it should be safe as long as I wash it well, I mean sand is sand, right?
 
Butterfly
  • #8
Monkeyfish- Construction sand is really too sharp for fish and is really hard to get rinsed. While on the other hand pool filter sand is more rounded and doesn't have to be rinsed.
Carol
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
thanks Butterfly, that's good to know. I guess sharp sand could really hurt my fish. is there any spacial brand of pool filter sand that works better than others? btw-haven't heard from carib-sea yet either...
 
Butterfly
  • #10
No I just buy pool filter sand. It would have to be pretty much to a uniform standard I would think to be used in swimming pool filters without harming them.
Carol
 
sirdarksol
  • #11
The caribsea stuff should be alright. I went to the page and didn't see anything saying not to use with burrowing fish. I'm guessing that someone took it out when they realized their mistake.
 
Butterfly
  • #12
I have used several Caribsea products but not that one in particular, that's why I wondered why that warning was on the bag.
carol
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
I checked the caribsea website and they have a handy dandy chart that tells you not to use their sands with burrowers. it says that the gravel they have is burrower safe but the sand isn't, which is the opposite of what everything i've read says. i've been told that the finer the substrate, the better.
 
sirdarksol
  • #14
There actually isn't a warning on the bag (at least not the bag that I have). There is the CaribSea logo, "Tahitian Moon," "pre-washed, safe for saltwater or freshwater" and that's about it. Pretty simple bag, and no warning. I think the warning was on the website itself, and I think it was there mistakenly. Maybe whoever wrote it was thinking of certain bottom-feeders that live in rocky areas. These are fish that might not have body mechanisms meant to keep sand from causing harm.
 
Butterfly
  • #15
There actually isn't a warning on the bag (at least not the bag that I have). There is the CaribSea logo, "Tahitian Moon," "pre-washed, safe for saltwater or freshwater" and that's about it. Pretty simple bag, and no warning. I think the warning was on the website itself, and I think it was there mistakenly. Maybe whoever wrote it was thinking of certain bottom-feeders that live in rocky areas. These are fish that might not have body mechanisms meant to keep sand from causing harm.

I was just wondering because Monkeyfish's first post said on the package
Carol
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
I don't know if its actually on the package, I just said that because that's what I saw on the website. not that it really matters where the warning is, I just wanted to be safe. sorry for the confusion
 
sirdarksol
  • #17
No, it's actually a really good question. I wonder if they've had problems with the sand shifting under a decoration, trapping a burrowing fish...
I really don't know.
 
Butterfly
  • #18
I don't know if its actually on the package, I just said that because that's what I saw on the website. not that it really matters where the warning is, I just wanted to be safe. sorry for the confusion
No problem the only thing I can think of is that it might be so light that it's hard for them to sift through. I ran across this thread at loaches.com
Carol
 
monkeyfish
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
thanks for the link. I went down to a local pool store and got some filter sand. I washed it and now its in my aquarium. I haven't seen my kuhlI burrowing yet, but he seems to be a lot more active since I got the sand. he and my cory like to suck up mouthfuls of sand and shoot it out their gills, its really funny to watch.
 
Butterfly
  • #20
... since I got the sand. he and my cory like to suck up mouthfuls of sand and shoot it out their gills, its really funny to watch.
yep their getting little microscopic critters and left over food out of the sand. Isn't it funny to watch
Carol
 
Homunculus
  • #21
I recently got 7 kuhlI loaches for my aquarium and thought they would thrive with my pool filter sand substrate I have, but it appears that they are having difficulty burrowing into it. I know this kind of sand comes highly recommended by many in the aquarium community, but has anyone heard of kuhlis having this issue? I don't see any reason why the kuhlis would have a problem with it, I can very easily push my finger into the sand with zero effort.

Here is a picture of my sand if that helps diagnose the issue:


image.jpg
 
annaberg1067
  • #22
I recently got 7 kuhlI loaches for my aquarium and thought they would thrive with my pool filter sand substrate I have, but it appears that they are having difficulty burrowing into it. I know this kind of sand comes highly recommended by many in the aquarium community, but has anyone heard of kuhlis having this issue? I don't see any reason why the kuhlis would have a problem with it, I can very easily push my finger into the sand with zero effort.

Here is a picture of my sand if that helps diagnose the issue:


image.jpg

Did you switch to pool filter sand? Were they in gravel before? If they were in gravel before, then they may just be getting used to it. Are they acting fine otherwise? What size tank is it? Are they new or have you had them for a while? My kuhlis are in smooth gravel and are doing fine but I know that sand is recommended. Lol sorry for all the questions
 
Homunculus
  • #23
I did switch to sand from gravel but I didn't have them before the change. The pet store I got them from did have gravel, which it looked like it was hard for them to burrow in when I was watching them there. They are acting normal except for not burrowing, and I have them in a 29 gallon tank.

I hope they can get this issue resolved soon, part of the reason I changed to sand was so I could get kuhlis.
 
Redshark1
  • #24
It looks like the Kuhlis have burrowed in to me I can't see any on top.
 
Sarah73
  • #25
Can we see a video? Also is the gravel still in the tank??? Meaning the sand is on top of the gravel.
 
Homunculus
  • #26
No I completely removed the gravel first. I will try to get a video up tonight.
 
tyguy7760
  • #27
I've owned kuhli's for over a year now and they rarely, if ever, burrow into the sand. I've had a few of them do it from time to time but it is by far not a common thing.

I'll be doing pool filter sand in my future 20 gallon which will house kuhli's.
 
Homunculus
  • #28
Here is a short video of my kuhlis trying to burrow into the sand. Both of the ones in the foreground look like they are trying to dig into the sand but are unable to.

 
chromedome52
  • #29
Your loaches are not trying to dig into the substrate, they are poking their barbels in looking for food.

What everyone here keeps calling "pool filter sand" is what I call fine gravel (about #20, which by international standards is fine gravel). Real sand doesn't work for filtration because it packs too tightly. "Play sand" is much finer for aquaria, and better for fish that like to burrow and sift. It is what the beaches here along the southern end of Lake Michigan are composed of. It is also a finer sand that is commonly used in sand blasting, as the smaller the particles, the better they clean.

However, in the wild, Kuhlis live in silt and detritus, which is even finer and less abrasive than any silica based sand.
 
Homunculus
  • #30
Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
tyguy7760
  • #31
By the way...fullmetal fan?
 
Homunculus
  • #32
No, my first fish's name was Homunculus
 

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