Koi With No Barbels? (Species ID)

I have a 200 gallon long with one comet goldfish (7-10 inches, moves really fast), and would like some stocking help.

I would like to get one more goldfish. I was going to purchase a baby from the store and grow it out, however, when I was there today I saw some absolutely beautiful “koi” (about 5-7 inches) that would be big enough to add now.

Now, I would NEVER get a koi for such a small tank, but these “koi” didn’t look like koi. The were a little skinnier and had NO barbels whatsoever.

My question is: could they be mislabeled goldfish, hybrids of some sort, or are they truly koi?

They looked JUST like the baby comets in the tank next to them, however, they did have some color patterns that would be pretty uncommon on a goldfish, but common on a koi. However, they were skinnier, and most lacked barbels.

Also, there was no indication of trauma (like the barbels got bit off), and the ones with barbels had a slightly different build than the ones without.

However, even the ones with barbels looked a little thicker than the my goldfish.

I tried to take a picture, but the store is pretty strict about that, and the moment he saw phone out, he came over and told me photo and video is not allowed, which I respect.

Thanks for reading this, and sorry my post is all over the place, just wanted to be thorough.

 

well it is very diffuclt to help without a photos/video but i wouldnt risk buying it, if its a koi then dont buy it unless you have like around 800-1000gals. Also its common during transport and adding to petstore tank that a barbel can be caught in the net and break off, did you notice and reddness or damage to the area? i note that you said no indication of trama. I would say for 200gal you could max 6 comets or maybe like 7 fancies but thats pushing it. ive got 850gal pond with like 20-5 comets all doing good had for multiple years they have babies not no deaths so far.

 

well it is very diffuclt to help without a photos/video but i wouldnt risk buying it, if its a koi then dont buy it unless you have like around 800-1000gals. Also its common during transport and adding to petstore tank that a barbel can be caught in the net and break off, did you notice and reddness or damage to the area? i note that you said no indication of trama. I would say for 200gal you could max 6 comets or maybe like 7 fancies but thats pushing it. ive got 850gal pond with like 20-5 comets all doing good had for multiple years they have babies not no deaths so far.

Thanks for the reply. I’ve done my reading on koi and goldfish, as well as a few ways to tell the difference. I will go back today to try to tell. It will be easy with confirmed koi in the tank on the left and confirmed goldfish in the tank on the right.

I agree, though. I won’t get them if I think they could be koi. However, I have two follow-up questions:

1. If I can identify them as hybrids, could I get one? Some sources say to treat them like koi, while others say to treat them like goldfish, and I couldn’t find a species specific care guide.

2. There were no signs whatsoever that the barbels go rubbed/bit off. However, some had full barbels, others had very tiny barbels, and some had absolutely no barbels. So the question is: when do koi get their barbels? A lot of articles say different things, ranging from 1 inch to 6 inches. Some say they will get their barbels early, around 1 inch, and then loose them at three inches, and then grow them back at 4-6 inches.

Did the fish at the store (a good 4-6 inches) just have yet to grow their barbels? But then how do you explain that some fish had very long, impressive barbels?

I know that was more than two follow up questions, but I want to make sure I know exactly what I’m getting in to if I buy this fish.

 

i have never owned a koi.... but i plan on purcasing one or two soon for my 850gal pond. Ive never had hybrids with koi and goldies, only different goldies species, but i have a friend who has a comet/koi hybrid and says to treat like koi, i dont reccomend you buy them for 200gal unless you upgrade or are sure you can rehome. Best of luck.

 

i have never owned a koi.... but i plan on purcasing one or two soon for my 850gal pond. Ive never had hybrids with koi and goldies, only different goldies species, but i have a friend who has a comet/koi hybrid and says to treat like koi, i dont reccomend you buy them for 200gal unless you upgrade or are sure you can rehome. Best of luck.

Thanks. I will do a bit more reading, and will probably not get them unless I’m 100% sure. Another issue I foresee is that my goldfish tank maintains a temp of about 78 (several cooling methods in place, room is 80-85). I don’t think a koi could handle that hot temp.

 

No, IMO koi are fine at that temp

 

No, IMO koi are fine at that temp

I guess they would be put at that temp at least once or twice a year in the wild. I just read an article that said that if the fish has no barbels, it’s mom was a goldfish, and you should treat it like a large goldfish. However, if it has tiny barbels, it’s mom was a koi, and you should treat it like a small koi. Definitely interesting. I wish you luck on your pond.

 

In Australia the latest craze is to name any species breed to have the three colours as koi .
We have koi betta and kio angelfish to name two that come to mind. Is it possible they are labeled as kio just because they have the desirable colours?

 

In Australia the latest craze is to name any species breed to have the three colours as koi .
We have koi betta and kio angelfish to name two that come to mind. Is it possible they are labeled as kio just because they have the desirable colours?

No, they are definitely koi or koi/comet hybrids.

You should see America. Here, we have koi bettas of 20 different varieties, we have koi tetras, koi angelfish, “koi” goldfish (just a regular goldfish), koi cichlids, koi platies, koi mollies, koi guppies, and the koi swordtail, just to name a few. I’ve also seen a few saltwater fish go by the name “koi” something.

A note on bettas: in bettas, “koi” also means they possess they marbling, jumping, or “koi” gene. This allows them to drastically change color in a relatively short time. Other fish may possess this gene, but that’s a fairly rare occurrence.

I’m not sure if “koi” carries any significance with the other species I listed above.

 

Thank you, sorry for slight delay, my tank needed a filter pad rinse, in tank water of course.

All of this genetics stuff, mum dad causes... barbels I have no clue about

I saw some videos by a local Australia breeder of koi and he keeps all his water at around 26C which is 80F so I think u should be fine temp wise, it's now a matter of space.

 

Thank you, sorry for slight delay, my tank needed a filter pad rinse, in tank water of course.

All of this genetics stuff, mum dad causes... barbels I have no clue about

I saw some videos by a local Australia breeder of koi and he keeps all his water at around 26C which is 80F so I think u should be fine temp wise, it's now a matter of space.

I’ll definitely keep the temp in mind. It seems like one of those things no one can agree on on the internet. I’ve heard everything from 65 maximum to 80 maximum.

I’m also considering “cleaning up” another feeder fish. I have the meds lying around.

 

I’m also considering “cleaning up” another feeder fish. I have the meds lying around.

Sorry idk what you mean by this, it's currently 10:20PM, I need to wake up at 6:40AM for school tomorrow. So I'm going to sleep now, lol.

 

Sorry idk what you mean by this, it's currently 10:20PM, I need to wake up at 6:40AM for school tomorrow. So I'm going to sleep now, lol.

Feeder goldfish often have very many illnesses and aren’t bred to be pets. Most die within 24 hours of being brought home. When given 1 gallon per 30 fish, diseases spread like wildfire. KGTropicals has a few very good videos on YouTube, I encourage you to watch them.

***Entering Rant Mode***
Some people “won’t give their precious Oscars* any less than live”, but I disagree. How can you think a skinny, starving, parasite infested, bacterial infection carrying fish is “so healthy”? I seriously doubt your Oscar would be chasing GOLDFISH through the Amazon. If you cared so much about what’s “natural”, why are you keeping your fish in an artificial environment enclosed in a glass box? That’s very far from natural.
*Used Oscars as an example because “predator fish culture” almost revolves around them. Nothing wrong with Oscars.
***End Rant***

“Cleaning up” a feeder fish is where you try to rid them of the 20 something illnesses they carry to add them to a tank. This usually consists of an anti fungal, an anti parasitic, and an antibiotic. Most die, but sometimes you get your hands on a tough cookie. Just ask my goldfish, Sparky. He can from a feeder tank, and he still has scars from external parasites (5 years later).

It can be very rewarding to know that you brought a fish back from death’s door.

Most people think feed goldfish are cheap, as they only cost 20-50 cents. However, about 30-60 dollars worth of medication is required, plus the quarantine tank and a filter you’re okay with throwing out, making this one pricey fish.

If you can, it’s such a sad but rewarding experience, finding that tough cookie.