Jmaldo's Discus Build

"Thanks" Discus Gang!
Well, I did it?
Decided to give the 29 gallon with #6-7 along with some EBAs and Bolivians a "PP" treatment today before the normal water change. Boy was I nervous .
All went well. I was so preoccupied with watching the fish for any signs of distress (H2O2 at the ready). I did not get any pics.
Maybe next time.
I followed coralbandit treatment of "2 drops of the solution per gallon of aquarium water to achieve the 2ppm treatment level.
Turned off the canister and turned up the bubblers, the water eventually turned a dark purple. I could still see the fish. Over the course of an hour I watched the fish intently as the color slowly lightened up to a pink then to an amber.
Then started to drain. I drained about half then filled back up with aged water then drained again about 20g. Filled again with aged water. And as mentioned by others the water was so clear it was unreal. And everyone is doing fine. In fact they just got fed.
Whew!
Oh, and here is the thread for anyone not familiar with the "PP" treatment.
Using Potassium Permanganate

Thanks "Tom"

 

Sort of an Update!
Hmm..
Came home yesterday and noticed a bunch of gravel and small pebbles on the bottom of the tank near the potted RTL.
Well as some of you known, I decided to add some EBA to the tank. It appears I have a pair. They have claimed the potted RTL as their nursery. I saw both of them rearranging, protecting the pot and doing their little spastic shimmy breeding dancing. No real harm but the "Discus" are just a little stressed. It is water change day, decided to rearrange the tank to break up the sight lines. I moved the pot to one end of the tank and added another piece of driftwood. If they spawn I may need to rehome them to their own tank.
And I also may have a pair between #1 and #3, they are constantly together and it appears #1 the Alpha male chases any other suitors away from #3 female?
Let's see what develops?
Learning all the Time.

 

Sounds like they may feed your disc for you ?
I always thought about feeding fry to my breeders but honestly I figure it is like tricking your dog with a fake throw ?
All that time and training to get him or her to fetch the stick and bring it back and then 'the game changes '?? People at the dog park thought my dog was smarter then some people and she was !..It surely wasn't from tricking her ! I figure if you feed fry to fish how will they know the difference when the fry are theirs ?
I mean my angels have done nothing but prove to be the worst parents going ??? If I fed them some other fry would they stop eating theirs? It has only been about ever 14-21 days for over a year now ?
My EBA have not spawned in almost 8-10 months !
It is like the EBA torch has been passed ! Blue devil fish be yours !

 

The "Discus" are doing fine. And Saturday the 55 gallon is getting the "PP" treatment.
Need to get/post some new pics or vid. Reminder to self.

I figure if you feed fry to fish how will they know the difference when the fry are theirs ?

Hmm... Good point/theory. This may have been the problem when I had a pair of Angels spawn. They would eat the eggs or the wigglers. I even tried your "bandit" method to remove the eggs and raise them but I could not get the swimmers past the 2 week mark,

Oh Well so much for that idea.

Thanks coralbandit
I am humbled by the torch passing but I could never fill your shoes.

Question?
Now what to do with the EBA pair, really dislike keeping them apart. But they are breeding machines when together and as mentioned the market is saturated.
Should I just remove the eggs until the market is better or just give them away?

Learning all the Time!

 

Can the pair be left with eggs and most will not be raised or are they good parents ??
Them or angels would eat the fry IMO ?
The fish you don't want breed like champs !
Like the longest lived fish in marine tanks is the one you hate but can't catch !

 

Keep them separate is my thought. Worst case you have 100 with no where to go

 

coralbandit
Yep, the pair I got from you are "Great" parents . But I need to remove one or the other right after the wigglers start swimming because the male beats up on the female. Every-time. I guess I'll become a junior "Bandit" LOL
mbkemp
I have nearly that many now and they eat like little "Piggies". So 4 dozen off to the LFS's tomorrow, the last 2-3 dozen will be offered at the auction in a few weeks.. And the new young pair will be donated to the club for a raffle. As I mentioned the market is saturated, only getting $3 a piece. Last year the average was close to $5 each. They funded my "Discus" journey.
I thought about offering some here. Just not sure of my shipping skills and the hot weather Even though the last fish I sent made it all alive, but one bag leaked. Just not worth the extra effort except for the few members whom have guided me and I trust their fish keeping skills.
Just to much supply and the demand well the bottom fell out?

Learning all the Time.

 

Well, I did it again. As mentioned I performed the "PP" treatment on the 55g. Went well @ 2 ppm. And I even have pics...

Start "PP"


After 1 hour


After 2 hour


After 2.5 hour


After Water Change and Tank cleaning

 

Nice !
I believe it will have growth benefits in the long run ..

 

Just an Update...
I have been noticing the Alpha in the 55 gallon getting carried away with his status. Over the past week but especially the last 2 days he has been claiming more and more of the tank. Today was the last straw he has claimed about 2/3rds of the tank and even then swims over to the 4 in the other 1/3rd and still chases. Enough! Yep, I moved him to the 29 gallon and #6-#7 back into the 55g. What a difference, the 6 are doing well even #7 the smallest is not taking any guff from any of the others.

On another note, I just realized its been 3 months since I got these beauties. Yeah!
Now time to get some pics to see how much they have grown.

Learning all the Time.

 

Will power?
I delivered 2 dozen EBA to the LFS on Friday for store credit. Decided to look around. Very "Good" selection of fish. Quite a few types of Tetras and Rasboras caught my eye. Went back and forth rationalizing the purchase or purchases. Thought I might pick up a dozen or 2 to put in QT to add to the "Discus" tank in the fall. I was this close. Back/forth, I mean had the store associate been close enough I would have purchased some. Finally, decided to wait and see what would be available at the club auction in a couple of weeks. Whew! It was tough.Gave myself a "Pat" on the back.

Anyway, on to the pics, not as clear or as "Good" as others take but here they are.

I think this is a pair they have been cleaning on a potted plant for a day or two. I decided to remove it and now they started cleaning the driftwood.











Amano on the same driftwood

 

You got eggs coming IMO ..
They look to be a good pair ..
The bossy behavior could be breeding activity ?
All disc look good !

 

Funny looking closer at the first pic of the two powder blues the female has a black rI'm on fins just like my blue snakeskin female that has laid eggs 3 times now..
The black band looks cool whether it is good or bad IMO ..
Give them a cone or upside down flowerpot !

 

Well, the fish whisperer coralbandit called it.
Last night just chillen with a few cold Rolling Rocks and an Iced Potato Vodka on the side. Looked over at the tank and... I was able to catch them in action.
That's right I have my first spawn between #2 and #4.

Lights have not come on yet this AM. But lets see what develops.

 

Well, the fish whisperer coralbandit called it.
Last night just chillen with a few cold Rolling Rocks and an Iced Potato Vodka on the side. Looked over at the tank and... I was able to catch them in action.
That's right I have my first spawn between #2 and #4.

View attachment 585179

Lights have not come on yet this AM. But lets see what develops.

Wonderful! Maybe I’ll be next! lol I am completely fine with them waiting a little longer though! lol congrats! what is your tank temp at?

 

84-85
Now, I need advise. Of course I am not ready and this spawn has upset the balance in the tank.
Should I move them to a 10g? And see what happens or leave them be and let Mother Nature do her thing.

 

84-85
Now, I need advise. Of course I am not ready and this spawn has upset the balance in the tank.
Should I move them to a 10g? And see what happens or leave them be and let Mother Nature do her thing.

If you’re unprepared I would recommend leaving them in the tank. More than likely they will be eaten. However if you are lucky enough the parents will do all the work for you. Knowing you have a baby brine hatchery I wouldn’t worry too much. You can always supplement for the babies food if things go further than you expected.

 

Well congrats!! And sorry to here. Yeah what to do now. If they’re not bothering the rest of the discus just leave them be. If you are planning on breeding letting them breed a few times in that tank should only help them in the long run. Your options will be either move them or all the rest to another tank. If breeding you will need some more tanks. I’d go with at least 20s. Maybe 3 or 2 20s and a 40 breeder to grow them out. Good luck . You and coral may be putting Hans out of business.

 

Well, the fish whisperer coralbandit called it.
Last night just chillen with a few cold Rolling Rocks and an Iced Potato Vodka on the side. Looked over at the tank and... I was able to catch them in action.
That's right I have my first spawn between #2 and #4.

View attachment 585179

Lights have not come on yet this AM. But lets see what develops.

Woo Hoo, jmaldo!! You and coralbandit are certainly doing something right!! Your blues are gorgeous, so you’d better prepare for setting up business with them! I’m hoping my 2 Hans Turqs are a pair, but then I’d need more tanks!

 

Wow congrats! Looks like its the time of year for babies! Id leave them be, if they hatch you can move them like I did the Angel babies, if they are the same as Angels you have about 5 days until they hatch so plenty of time to set something up for them and the parents

 

First set of eggs are a welcome sign of a good future and nothing more IMO.. I know nothing of disc but I spot happy fish like that !
Leave em where they are .
If you want to entertain the fish move the pair after whatever the demise of eggs is [watch you be 1 in 1000!] .
Then they will be more focused and dedicated .With all that you are still dealing with a fish that is barely smarter then rams when comes to learning parenting and play a far more important role .. It is not just the hatching [pretty sure you or I could hatch the eggs ] , but it is the feeding that presents a special challenge all unto itself .Learn about that and plan /strategize and imagine how many spawns before they get it right .
If you choose to 'help' know that fry from young parents are usually smaller and harder to feed then usual !
Looks like you may have got a few more eggs than my guys laid ...On that , the eggs ….Gone yet ?
You know how to be patient ..September is early in my fishroom for serious breeding .The South American cichlid union forbids serious efforts until the 'official season ' starts around October or so I hope !

 

Eggs still there. Even after the water change and adding the divider.
No ideas of grandeur at the moment. And I need to give breeding a "Break".
Agree with you coralbandit Acheivement Only! During my research raising the fry is at a whole other level. What the future holds?

The reason I was asking about moving them to a 10g, was not for breeding but to give the other 4 huddled in the opposite corner a break from the parents protection mode. I have decided not to move the pair with the eggs. I did setup a divider to alleviate the stress to the others from the new parents. And the other 4 are swimming around like normal now Before they were not even eating.. Pics to follow.
Right now will just be a spectator, gonna let "Mother Nature' handle it. What happens, happens.

 

I have found the females are the more dominate ones in the tank, what they say goes.

Now with my "Blues" #1Alpha and #2 Beta both males are the dominate ones so far. This is the reason I moved #1 after the failed courtship he had with #3. I now realize this might be the reason he turned into a "Terror" in the tank, and why he was moved to the 29g.

 

As mentioned decided to add a divider to the tank. I have done this before when I had an Angel Pair spawn with other Angels. I used a corrugated plastic panel with flutes.Kind of blinding, would have preferred a darker color but this is all I have at the moment. And yes even after adding the divider and a water change / tank maintenance, still have eggs.

 

Well not to be. 1st spawn
Woke up yesterday waited for the lights to come on and the eggs were still there. Yeah! But... it appears they fungused over.




Just an observation, I did notice the parents were not fanning the eggs as I normally see with the many spawns from the Bolivians and EBA. New / Inexperienced parents?

And before I could remove them the pair decided to start eating them. I did get a vid of them eating them.
(may post if anyone interested)

Within an hour the eggs are gone.




Mother Nature at her finest. I have decided to leave the divider in for the time being since the other 4 are doing better without all the stress from the pair. Let's see how long before another spawn?

coralbandit
Appears to be about the same time frame.

Learning all the Time.

 

And we have another spawn. As I am typing this.
Let's see if I can get another vid ?

 

And we have another spawn. As I am typing this.
Let's see if I can get another vid ?

Wow! That’s only 2 days since they ate the eggs from the earlier spawn! They’re obviously intent on making this work!

 

Wow! That’s only 2 days since they ate the eggs from the earlier spawn!

Agree, I was surprised myself. I figured maybe a week or so, but 2 days...
So during the water change yesterday, it became apparent the divider was just getting in the way. Removed the divider and the pair shot over to the other side of the tank and started harassing the other 4. I thought it would subside, but ended up putting it back in. So I finished the tank maintenance with the divider in took a bit longer, what a "Pain" but...
Anyway, I was just chillin later that night and looked over at the tank and could not believe my eyes. So here is a short vid. Let's see what happens. It's up to them and of course "Mother Nature".

 

Agree, I was surprised myself. I figured maybe a week or so, but 2 days...
So during the water change yesterday, it became apparent the divider was just getting in the way. Removed the divider and the pair shot over to the other side of the tank and started harassing the other 4. I thought it would subside, but ended up putting it back in. So I finished the tank maintenance with the divider in took a bit longer, what a "Pain" but...
Anyway, I was just chillin later that night and looked over at the tank and could not believe my eyes. So here is a short vid. Let's see what happens. It's up to them and of course "Mother Nature".

They’re obviously on a mission jmaldo ! I think you may have to live with that divider for the foreseeable future!

 

Update, the eggs are gone. So they are 0 for 2. To be expected of course. They are still learning along with me. I might pick up a cone for them.

 

Down to "6".
Lost #7. I thought I was doing my best, but... "Mother Nature" has other ideas.
For about a week I noticed #7 not eating as well, it would take some food but then spit it out.. No noticeable changes except that. Two nights ago after feeding I noticed #4-5-6 were taking turns chasing #7. They were relentless. So, I have another tank ready for some corys I am expecting, decided to remove #7. Woke up this AM and it was floating. Water parameters are fine. 0,0,5 TDS 150 Temp 84'.
I lost #8 about 5 weeks ago, both of them were the "Runts" of the litter. similar issues with the chasing.
As mentioned maybe it's just survival of the fittest, but...
Still no idea???

 

Down to "6".
Lost #7. I thought I was doing my best, but... "Mother Nature" has other ideas.
For about a week I noticed #7 not eating as well, it would take some food but then spit it out.. No noticeable changes except that. Two nights ago after feeding I noticed #4-5-6 were taking turns chasing #7. They were relentless. So, I have another tank ready for some corys I am expecting, decided to remove #7. Woke up this AM and it was floating. Water parameters are fine. 0,0,5 TDS 150 Temp 84'.
I lost #8 about 5 weeks ago, both of them were the "Runts" of the litter. similar issues with the chasing.
As mentioned maybe it's just survival of the fittest, but...
Still no idea???

I am so sorry to hear you’ve lost #7, Joe I know you’re giving them the best environment! In the wild I’m sure the mortality rate is much higher, as they are part of the food chain after all. Mother Nature is not the benign ‘force’ we like to imagine - she’s a pretty hard b!/@#, sometimes. I also think that schooling fish, like other ‘animals’ that live in groups can detect the weak links, and show them no mercy - except for elephants. But then, elephants have few natural predators, so they can afford to slow down for the sick, injured and old, and even bring them food.

 

jmaldo I'm sorry you lost one, you did the right thing removing him though, but you can't help he died in the process.
With bullies its always hard, you need to find what they are protecting, if its food then you need to think about that, if your feeding them cubes perhaps breaking the cube up into small pieces is a better way to feed in that there is lots of food floating around instead of 1 big piece to fight over... If the discus is protecting a pot or ornament you need to remove that object so he can't be territorial over it. If it is just the fact that the dsicus is bossy then yes you need to remove it from the main tank and punish it by putting it alone for a day or two, then place it back in the main tank and see if it has changed it ways. Watching your fish closely will tell you a lot about them, also if they are protecting a mate they will be very aggressive towards the others in the tank, this is when it becomes harder to fix and re-homing might have to be an option in this case. If you check those 4 things ive mentioned you might realize why it happened or be able to stop such things in the future... Can you post a photo of your full tank here for me?

 

Bum deal .
I noticed unusual poop the other day from the Stendker tefe.. I thought the fish was having a prolapse ! Then done and the fish is swimming like before but staying by itself near back of tank ..
Thinking the whole tank needs to be treated with metrodiazanole.Had I not seen this one poop I would be thinking he is just hiding or being a runt ,although not the smallest..
I don't know if it will change anything but thinking of starting this weekend ..Treatment of metro seems easy and safe enough ..Funny is the others seem fine and if I had not seen the poop I would not be thinking of treating ..
I am pretty sure none of us did the standard discus treatment ...Wonder if things would have been different if we did ?

 

Thanks Everyone.
As mentioned with the loss of #8 and now #7. It is just a bit confusing and discouraging at the same time. From all the research I have done and giving these "Discus" the "Best" with water changes, food, etc.. and they get the most attention. I am realizing why the majority of hobbyist say they are the most difficult to keep.
Look at our gang, everyone has a different type of setup from bare bottom to full blown planted tanks. Hard to soft water, high pH to neutral. From "Discus" only tanks to communities, canister filters and UV to just sponge filters. Most of us do 25% to 90% water changes every other day to once or twice a week even 3 times.
No rhyme or reason.
I have had my random losses keeping a wide range of different fish when I first started, but this is getting ridiculous.
I really disagree with a prophylactic treatment. Just use normal "Quarantine" procedures and have not experienced any type of disease in my tanks.(Knock on Wood).
But coralbandit may be on to something.
At this point I am not throwing in the towel but will proceed full speed ahead with caution of course and get the "Planted Community" build going. And continue to be a spectator and see what "Mother Nature" decides.

Learning all the Time.

 

Really sorry you lost another one! I hope that is the end of that for a good long while.

 

Sorry for the loss. For me I think your losses are just Mother Nature. Your fish are all from the same hatch. Some are stronger than others. Mine are pairs. The store bought I picked what I thought were the best. The ones I got from Hans were probably the biggest pairs in there tanks. So the chance of a weaker one is less. The fact that I have 12 and a 5’ tank breaks up the bullying and I believe the pairing off.

Coral as to the stringy poop. I’ve seen that a few times and have written it off as just the mucus waste from eating the freeze dried black worms.

 

The poop was more like fungused food that was not eaten and could easily be mistaken for if not seen hanging out of fish ..
It was not stringy .It was big enough I thought prolapse till it fell off !
Started with 3 teaspoons of Metro today in the 60g..

 

The poop was more like fungused food that was not eaten and could easily be mistaken for if not seen hanging out of fish ..
It was not stringy .It was big enough I thought prolapse till it fell off !
Started with 3 teaspoons of Metro today in the 60g..

Keep us posted! I just ordered some more Metro to have on hand now that I’m getting 3 more. So far there doesn’t seem to be anyone standing out as weaker than the rest, but I’ve only had the 7 in my big tank a little over a month?

 

Keep us posted! I just ordered some more Metro to have on hand now that I’m getting 3 more. So far there doesn’t seem to be anyone standing out as weaker than the rest, but I’ve only had the 7 in my big tank a little over a month?

Woooah slow down there Barbra lol getting lots of discus now! kidding! Glad everything is working out for you with your ifishstore discus! But just a little heads up (their discus are always on sale)