It's been 5 days ...please help !

  1. Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    It has been five days since my juvenile koi Angel has eaten , he comes to the food , takes it and spits it out , I have tried different foods and all the same .
    I read could be a parasite ? Should i give him antibiotics or something else ? He looks normal , swims normal , no spots or
    Discoloration ...I did notice once he rubbed against the Java fern a few times but haven't seen him do that but once .
     
  2. FreshAquariums

    FreshAquariums Valued Member Member

    Have you seen your fish poop? whats the coloration of it?
     
  3. Dave125g

    Dave125g Fishlore Legend Member

    Can you post a picture?
     


  4. AndrewJ54

    AndrewJ54 Valued Member Member

    Also what are the water parameters in the tank and how big is the tank?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    I have not seen him poop , I have posted some pics in another thread but I will post another here .tank is 38g water parameters are perfect ,,, he has been in this same tank his two tank mates eat fine .

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  6. FreshAquariums

    FreshAquariums Valued Member Member

    I thought of something, it may be ick but inside him rather than outside.

    Ichs a nasty little parasite that needs to be treated or it wont go away, and it will eventually breed enough where it can mass infect your fish and kill them very quickly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. The other one seems very lucky if it's truly fine, sometimes their immune systems perk up and their slime coat fights it off, but it's highly likely he's still infected too. If one has it, they all have it, be it internal or external. Thing is, there is usually a small amount of ich in home aquaria, you just never really see it because if your fish have healthy slime coats and immune systems it's harder for ich to infect and breed...this doesn't mean it can't. It just takes one little, tiny damaged slime coat area for the invasion.

    Clean the tank and treat the ich with either salt and heat if your fish are types that can handle it, or find an ich medication. Unfortunately I don't know any good ones, all the "Ich be gone" meds at our LFS's don't actually work, perhaps someone can give you a better medicine.

    If you use the salt and heat method, add the salt first. Use about a tablespoon per ten gallons, dissolve it FULLY in tank water before adding it to the tank, and then turn the heat up. You want it around 84F, but do it slowly, maybe two or three degrees per day.
    Heat causes it to breed faster and die faster, salt kills it. So when the eggs hatch out of the fish(those white spots and white poo), the salt kills it before it can prey on your fish again.
     


  7. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    The long story on him is ...he was in my other tank with 3 Angels and he kept nipping them so he went into a 10g ..he was eating and all was fine , I set up the 38g and transferred him and all was fine ,,,, he seemed lonely so I bought 2 Rams from petsmart and put in with him ..they died in two days ...he stopped eating then ....so I changed most of the water and transferred two of my Rams from other tank in with him thinking he was lonely and reason not eating ...the two Rams are fine and the Angel still not eating ...I have tried different foods , lights on lights off in the dark , turn pumps down and even off to make water still non of it works !
     
  8. cnstowers

    cnstowers Valued Member Member

    I noticed ich early, turned up the heat to 89-90, ich gone in week and a half and no dead fish
    Turning up the temp is pretty much the safest and cheapest way to do it
    Ich stops infecting at 84 degrees
    Stops breeding at 86
    And dies completely at 89.5
    (According to one study)
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    Fresh aquarium ,, the temp is at 82 now ..so go ahead and take some water out , add new water with salt and turn heat to 84?? How long do I leave it at 84 and is the salt a one time treatment ?

    I read where Angels temp is to 82..and Rams to 84 ..can the Angel handle 84?

    Will the salt through off water chemical parameters ?
     
  10. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    Sorry guys, but there aren't any signs or Ich.
    Is treating a disease that isn't there a good idea?
    Antibiotics for a possible parasite is something alike. Antibiotics treat bacteria and not parasites. And definitely if there are no signs of those as well.
    Start with some waterchanges. That's never wrong and start treating when your fish show signs of a disease. Not before !
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    It's been 5 days ...pleas help !

    DoubleDutch, I do not see any white spots but part of him is white ..would it be noticeable ? I will get some close up pics...I have been doing water changes daily .what would be another reason he is not eating ?
     
  12. DoubleDutch

    DoubleDutch Fishlore Legend Member

    I serious doubt it is Ich.
    There are many possible causes. Did you try bloodworms aso ?
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    His pics just a few minutes ago, 1 from each side and front .

    I have flakes , frozen brim shrimp and tubifex worms ...I don't think it's the actual food because he use to really gooble up shrimp
     
  14. Dave125g

    Dave125g Fishlore Legend Member

  15. bizaliz3

    bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    You know with that tank being very newly set-up, I really would like to know what the actual readings are for ammonia and nitrite.....

    Even if you used seeded media there's a chance that you could deal with mini cycles.

    I had an adult angel who was always spitting out her food and not pooping. I was very worried about her, but daily water changes for a couple weeks and she was back to her old self. Never underestimate the power of water changes!
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

  17. FreshAquariums

    FreshAquariums Valued Member Member

    ich can be on the inside of the fish to, not always just on the outside. and the signs were that the fish wasn't eating which im pretty sure he still isn't.
    @Angels4 im pretty sure an angelfish can handle a small temp change like that I have fish that are supposed to be 2 degrees away from what it is now. there fine and dandy

    and how much water do you take out? 25%? also did some research, he might have hexamita but I doubt it
    Hexamita: Hexamita is a genus of parasitic diplomonads. It is related to Giardia.
    and Another possibiblity is that your fish is very stressed, when some fish are stressed a bunch they tend not to eat
    other than not eating, what is the behaviour like? any changes? what brand of food do you feed? also again, is their any fungus on his lips? also another idea: maybe intestinal worms
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    It's been 5 days ...pleas help !

    He is swimming normal and all behavior is normal other then not eating ..I use aqueon tropical flakes and premium frozen brine shrimp ...I have 3 other Angels all eat the same thing and the rest are fine ,other 3 are in another tank .

    I do not see anything unusual on his lips , I posted some close up pics .

    What to do for internal parasites ?
     
  19. FreshAquariums

    FreshAquariums Valued Member Member

    any fungus on lips? also (sorry so many questions) have you switched his tan lately i.e. moved him
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Angels4

    Angels4 Valued Member Member

    I did 20% water change .

    I wrote his story some where in this thread , he has been moved 3 tanks ..but was fine until the two fish died that I bought at petsmart ( big mistake )