Issues with Bolivian Rams

I am looking for some help with keeping Bolivian Ram's. I am having issues my with aggression between juvenile rams. I was told from the store that one was a male and the other was a female. But it looks as if both are actually males. I just recently moved them from a 20 gallon tank to a new 40 gallon breeder (I transferred all decorations and media from the cycled tank) in attempt to try to quell the stress the one seems to be having from the other. I have plenty of areas for them both to hide in the new tank, have heavy planting (artificial) and have broken up almost all sight lines. I have not been able to locate the one acting stressed for a day and went looking today. I found that he had passed and was in one of the hiding areas. I would ideally like to have a pair, but am having hard time finding anywhere that sell any that have been sexed as females they usually are unidentified. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to successfully introduce another ram in the tank, or would it be best to try a larger amount of them in the tank? Say 4, or more? I have lots of capacity left in the tank right now as I am building it up. I added a photo of the one Ram I have left.


My current stock is:

5 Glofish Danios (kids wanted them)
6 juvenile Espei Rasboras (plan on adding another 6, or Harlequins at somepoint)
6 Salt and Pepper Cory's (plan on getting another 6 sometime)
1 Bolivian Ram

I also plan on getting a Dwarf Gourami and Cherry Barbs as well.

 

I have 4 bolivian rams, not much issue other than occasional chasing.

 

Get 4 to even out the aggression

 

You will NEVER have success adding one cichlid to the established territory of another cichlid. You're literally asking for trouble.

Get 5 more and let THEM choose who they want to pair up with. Even if you are SURE the one you have is a male (doesn't sound like you are), and you find one you are SURE is a female, forcing a pair almost never works, and never long term. Cichlids always do best when they are raised in a group and they pair up on their own.

 

Would it be possible to add 3 and see how it goes, then potentially add 2 more later if needed? Or would this cause too many issues?

 

I agree with what others have posted above.
However i have found the strain of Bolivians I am working with to be less aggressive than some other cichlids.

As far as playing musical fish , jumping them from tank to tank . I would say it’s impossible to know how it’s going to go. All I do is watch closely for a week , have a tank to remove a fish that is getting stressed.

Short answer.
Adding more in one go is likely better than two small groups days apart?

Your stocking
You mentioned having 25 fish without the Bolivians. That’s a lot of species in your future plan.
Skip the dwarf gourami completely.

The way I read your situation you are not intending to breed rams? If that’s the case there is no reason to have a pair. They don’t play happy families at the best of times. They will even attack your hands when they have eggs. It’s actually pretty stressful having breeding fish in tanks.

 

I don’t necessarily want a pair to breed, but rather wanted a male/female to hopefully limit the aggression a male/male combo would create. From what I read the make/make situation for two would have more of a chance to end badly than a male/female. I was planning on getting another 3 at one time, but now not sure if 5 would be better. Are you thinking the dwarf gourami would not ideal because of temperament to the others in the tank, just to limit the amount of species? This is my first community tank with multiple species and trying to understand it all. I had two tanks several years back, one with two Jack Dempsey cichlids and an African Cichlids tank, but nothing like this one.

 

On the subject of the dwarf gourami. I don’t know of anyone who has a good word to say about them . Related to a betta they are notorious trouble makers. The honey gourami is a much better alternative. Slightly smaller that’s all.
It’s your tank , it’s not really my place to comment on species numbers. I will say bigger schools of schooling fish display better. And from personal experience once you buy fish it’s hard to take them back.

On the subject of pairs.
The drive to breed is a natural and strong drive.
I personally don’t think gender has much to do with group dynamics. A group of 5 fish will spread the load between multiple fish. Two fish is alway going to have a dominant fish and stressed fish. Many dwarf cichlids do not pair for live. They come together to raise a batch of fry even working as a team but may go back to a normal relationship after a few months as if nothing has happened between them.

It is often said.
Each fish is an individual. What works for one may not work for another.

Five is a good number for a 40 gallon if you do decide to get more.

 

Even with "peaceful" cichlids, two of a species (unless a breeding pair) is almost never going to work. You end up with one dominant fish who takes out any aggression it has on only one poor subdominant tank mate with no one else to help distribute the aggression. If you don't want a breeding pair, then you need to do only one, or at least three.

 

Thank you all for the help, I think I am going to add a total of 4 more Rams to the tank to help spread out the aggression.

 

So quick update, I added 4 rams about a month ago and all was fine. Aggression has been much better and no visible targeting. I did however lose my original ram out of nowhere today. It was fine and came home today to it dead. The 4 left are all from the same batch from my lfs. My question now is can I replace it without upsetting the balance? As of now, the 4 I have get along quite well. My lfs still has the last remaining one from that batch (they got 5 in and I bought 4 of the 5).

 

Maybe add the new ram when the lights are off and move your decor so the all the rams have to make new territories allowing the 5th ram to not get bullied.

 

I believe you can have at least 5 adult Bolivians in a 40 gallon no problem at all.
The only issue is when they breed but that could happen with just a pair/ two fish .

I move them around and don’t see much aggression.
I have had one juvenile lose a gill plate from nipping but that was 40 ish juveniles in a 40 gallon .

 

Maybe add the new ram when the lights are off and move your decor so the all the rams have to make new territories allowing the 5th ram to not get bullied.

The odd thing is, the 4 I have now have no real territories set up. They all tend to group together out in the open all on the same side of the tank. They occasionally chase each other but are quick to let it go.

I believe you can have at least 5 adult Bolivians in a 40 gallon no problem at all.
The only issue is when they breed but that could happen with just a pair/ two fish .

I move them around and don’t see much aggression.
I have had one juvenile lose a gill plate from nipping but that was 40 ish juveniles in a 40 gallon .

I am leaning towards adding the last one from that batch. I prefer having 5.

 

My 8 adults in a 55 do not have territory’s , they group together. Only around food is there anything that could be considered aggression, but it’s focused on taking the mouthful before the other fish.

There is always a risk of ich when adding new fish from a shop tank . However as it was the same batch all you can do without using a quarantine tank is watch all the fish closely daily with a torch ,if necessary.