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Is This Too Many Fishes For A 40 Gallon Tank ? Question

Discussion in 'Aquarium Stocking Questions' started by jake37, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. jake37Valued MemberMember

    6 Kuhli
    5 Dwarf chain loach
    6 cardinal (and 4 tiny cardinal in a fry net)
    2 swords (and 2 tiny swords that were in a fry net but now in the tank)
    3 upside down cats (the small type - was 1 inch but now 2.5 inches)
    1 bristolnose pleco (was 1.5 inch but growing very fast - now nearly 2.8 inches)
    4 nickel size angels (will be moved to larger tank in 12 months)
    1 panda cory (a mistake but as long as he is in the tank he is welcome to stay)
    --
    (the above is my target population - i currently have 2 of the angels, 3 of the dwarf and 1 upside cat - intend to add 2 more dwarf, 2 angels and 2 upside cat in 2 weeks unless i am over doing it)
    -
    The thank is planted - with 4 amazon swords (3 of them growing well 1 is too new to tell) 1 java fern growing well - 1 nana nubia not doing anything but not dead - i will be adding 2 red amazon swords and 3 nana nubia on drift wood in a week as well as some val (that grass stuff).
     
  2. SeasoldierWell Known MemberMember

    Hi, in a word yes, that is too much stock for a 40 gallon, you'll also likely experience inter species aggression as the fish mature, the upside down cats will look at the cardinals as prey the Dwarf chains can fin nip the Angels & once they get bigger the angels will retaliate & you need a bigger group of Panda corys (4+) or the single one will constantly be stressed & more susceptible to illness.
     




  3. jake37Valued MemberMember

    Hum. Had thought the upside down cat was docile (this is the type that is suppose to max out at 3.5 to 4 inches) but I guess that is my error. I know the panda is a schooling fish but he was a mistake and not sure I want more (i had two but one quickly died). Do you recommend that I just stick with what I have or should i finish the dwarf school and just leave the upside down solo.
    -
    Is the tank so overstocked that I should quickly look for fishes to remove ?

     




  4. FishGirl38Well Known MemberMember

    I agree with the above, that stocking is a bit much for a 40G, BUT...this is coming from someone who has a 45 stocked with 15 border loaches, 2 8in goldfish, 9 convict cichlids, 6 juvinile kribensis, 2 bristlenose pleco, 1 clown pleco, 2 otocinclus...1 pearl gourami....so, my tank is stocked crazily and haphazardly...(the tank described is my mixmatch tank....the tank where fish go when I decide to change set ups without getting rid of fish...)

    ANYWHOOO, I've had this tank like that for at least a year now...everyones been fine, no massive die offs or anything. Actually, I haven't had a death in that tank since my angelfish died, while that tank was still a 'community' type tank. At least a year now. I have an AC 70 on that tank (though I'd prefer to have a 110 at this point) and I do 50% water changes every week...on wednesdays. So what I'm trying to say is...technically your stocking is a bit much, BUT, with proper maintenance and monitoring the tank, you can keep all of that in there quite easily. I'm still a bit skeptical about the 4 angels though, In my experience, angels are very delicate, and in an overstocked tank...they don't do very well. As you're bound to have some ammonia spikes here and there, and angels just don't tolerate that as well as most other fish. PH can also be an issue with them, they like it softer, and if you have hard PH, over time, that could affect their long-term health. Angels are my favorite fish, but I can't keep them. I've had 3 in the past and each one has gotten about 2.5 inch in diameter and then died from bacterial infections. (2.5inch in body diameter, not quite adult but def. late juvenile size.) I attribute this to my failing to keep water parameters pristine and having naturally high PH.
     




  5. oldsalt777Well Known MemberMember

    Hello jake...

    If you knew the fish would all get along and if none reproduced, you could with large, frequent water changes, keep the fish healthy. But, you need to consider how quickly the fish would reproduce, given pure water conditions. If you're just keeping the one tank, why not prioritize your list and keep your absolute favorites. Or, consider a larger tank, say 55 gallons or more.

    Old
     
  6. SeasoldierWell Known MemberMember

    Hi, I agree with @oldsalt777 above look at what you've got & maybe make a list with your favourites at the top & less favs down the list, then do some research to see which ones you can keep together & stay with them & rehome the others especially the poor little lonely Cory, it needs to be with others of its kind. You also should look at where they sit in the tank so you don't end up with all top or bottom dwellers, try to get a top, middle, bottom set up so that one particular level doesn't become too crowded.
     
  7. jake37Valued MemberMember

    Hum. The cory hangs out with the kuhli most of the time - they more or less 'sleep' on top of each other. The upside down cat has claimed the spot behind the heater between the two suction cups. The swords and tetra swim everywhere and the dwarf chain are new so i haven't figured them out yet. The angels are small and mostly hanging around the amazon sword plants about the kuhli. Hum. Not sure who to dump - the swords are my least favorite but the male is actually pretty decent looking fish - i've had swords in the past and this one has good contour - but i dislike the female - she is a bit of a bully. As mentioned in my first post the actual current content is
    2 quarter size angels
    3 dwarf chain
    1 upside down cat (2 ish inch long)
    --
    I can definitely skip buying 2 angels 2 dwarf and 2 upside - so the question then is should i dump someone. The panda doesn't seem stressed as long as he is with the kuhli - but i'm not sure. Current filtration is aquaclear 70 and eheim 2217 (the canister filter is new and long term i intended to shut off the aquaclear); the angels don't love the current but they've found dead spots infront of the amazon sword and below the fry net where they hang out (below the fry net is a favorite spot for a lot of fishes looking for food).
     
  8. SeasoldierWell Known MemberMember

    OK you don't seem to have any current major problems & you have good filtration going so that gives you plenty of breathing space to plan & make your decisions going forward. I'm mindful that our tanks are like personal works of art to us in the hobby so the final result has to be pleasing to you & nobody else so make it how you want it, let us know how it goes & show it off with some pics.
     
  9. jake37Valued MemberMember

    Hum was going to upload images but system won't let me.
     
  10. philip884551Valued MemberMember

    I wouldn't worry about fry surviving in the tank when you have angelfish i have swords platys in my tank never seen a fry coz of my angelfish my 20g tank have guppies and when I'm overstocked I net the fry out and put them in with my 2 angelfish and within minutes they are eaten
     
  11. jake37Valued MemberMember

    Well these are very small angels - a bit under an inch. Anyway the dwarf chain loaches came with ich; after they were kind enough to infected the entire tank they died and left the tank a mess. I treated it for 6 days but it looked like the kuhli were going to be killed by the medicine before the ich so i stopped treatment today and decided those strong enough to survive will make and those who don't don't but i would try my best to keep things stress free and cross my fingers. Right now two of the smaller kuhli have a few white spots and one cardinal is loaded as well as the two small angels but everyone else seems to be resisting it so far. I was using ich-x at 70% every 16 hours and changing 5 gallons a day. I stopped this morning and changed 10 gallons and will see what happens next week. What a mess. When I move I'll have room for a spare 40 to use as an quartine tank but right now i don't have the space for a second tank.

    Do healthy fish recover on their own or should i expect everyone to die a and end up with a tank full of plants ?
     
  12. M-StokesValued MemberMember

    Have you considered using heat to cure the ich?
     
  13. jake37Valued MemberMember

    How warm? I keep the tank at 78 normally and upped it to 80. My understanding is the cardinal are most sensitive to heat and the kuhli the least but not sure how high I can safely go and for how long ?

     
  14. M-StokesValued MemberMember

    Most people do 86 for 2 weeks, but extra bubblers will be needed since heat reduces oxygen levels.
     
  15. jake37Valued MemberMember

    I can add a sponge filter as a bubbler - last question how quickly can i raise it from 78 to 86 ?
     
  16. M-StokesValued MemberMember

    1 or 2 degrees per hour according to this. Curing ICH Naturally
     
  17. jake37Valued MemberMember

    Ok thanks. I'll try it. My heater is pretty weak (200 watt) but i'll see if it can get up there. If not i'll order a second heater from amazon. I checked on line between this and last post and it looks like most of the fishes i have can handle the heat for a week or two. Quite a few of them recommend some small amount of salt but i think I'll skip that with the plants and kuhli I don't feel comfortable going that far.

     
  18. jake37Valued MemberMember

    I think I solved my ick problem. the bottom of my 40 gallon tank split last night. I have most of the fishes sitting in a 5 gallon pail with 4 gallon of water; an air tube and heater but not sure I will be able to replace the tank today. I wonder if 40 gallon tanks split frequently - this one was new and had been setup 2 months tomorrow.
     
  19. sareyNew MemberMember

    If the aquarium has only been set up two months, I would go back to where I got it and raise a fuss. An aquarium is not meant to only last two months! That's crazy, unless you bought used, then buyer beware.
     
  20. jake37Valued MemberMember

    They replaced the tank just not the 15K damage it did to wood floors. In my next home I'm putting tile underneath the aquarium.

     
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