50 Gallon Tank Is This Ich? Tank Is 8 Years Old

Mabbitt

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Fresh water tank is 8 years established. No live plants. Gravel substrate.

Ammonia - 0
GH - 180 (Always is)
KH - 180 - 240 (Always is also)
pH - 7.5 - 8.0 (Always is)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

My tank is under stocked with about 35 inches of fish in a 50 gallon. Fluval70 HOB Filter. Marineland LED light.

I did my monthly routine water change of 20% and my heater for my tank got adjusted to raise to 84 degrees from 75ish.. so I turned the heater off so the tank could get back closer to temp of 75... I have a fish (Angel Ram) that can't live in 80+ degrees.. 24 hours later some glofish tetras have white spots on the fins and two of the 8 little neon tetras have it all over and are in a school taking turns rubbing against a decoration... No signs on all of the glofish tetras just a couple. No signs on the chinese algae eater. Baby striped raphael haven't seen for few days because hes a catfish... No sign on the ram either. I'm pretty sure they developed ich do to the rapid increase in temp...
 

DixieFish

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Yes, sounds like ich. Sounds like the rapid increase then decrease in temp messed with the fishs' immune system. I'm nosure why you decided to increase the temp in a stable tank with a heat sensitive fish in it... But if you can't increase the temp you'll want a good ich medicine and start a daily gravel vac. Keep it up for no less than 10 days, even if all spots clear up, because ich spends part of its life cycle hiding in your gravel. It is normal to see the issue worsen before it clears once treatment is started. Always add extra aeration when medicating.

ICH-X or API ich med are two reliable ones. It does not sound like a major infestation, so there's no reason to overdose the tank with multiple meds. But with these meds there should be no need to raise the temp. While treating, watch for signs of secondary diseases such as velvet or fin rot.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Whoa, wait a second... how is it possible to have a KH as high or higher than GH? KH makes up part of GH, and most of the time makes up no more than half the total GH. Is that a mis-read??

By the way, your water is similar to mine! I grow some good lookin' snails in such nice, hard water. Neo-cardinia shrimp like it, too, so I hear...
 
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Mabbitt

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Temp up from broken heater, new one arrives tomorrow.. since they are in beginning stages ive been told that the medication is pointless as the ich hasnt left the fish yet.. is that true?

Ive read a couple success stories as people caught it at this stage and raised temp slowly to 84 - 86 with salt and that cured it completely. Thoughts on that method?
 

ShamFish97

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Mabbitt said:
Ive read a couple success stories as people caught it at this stage and raised temp slowly to 84 - 86 with salt and that cured it completely. Thoughts on that method?
Aside from the angel being temp sensitive, which I have none of, I've done the same and it got rid of the ich.
 

DixieFish

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I've done that, too. Do you have a spare tank or bucket to house the angel for a couple weeks while you treat the tank?

Mabbitt said:
Temp up from broken heater, new one arrives tomorrow.. since they are in beginning stages ive been told that the medication is pointless as the ich hasnt left the fish yet.. is that true?
Oh, okay. Bad heater getcha every time. No, treat now. If you see the adults on fish, there's probably eggs in the substrate as well. The sooner you treat, the better it will be all around. I didnt treat soon enough once, and infection set in and killed my best guppy.

There has got to be some Angel experts around who can give more specific advice on what they can tolerate. Heat just speeds up the Ick life cycle, it doesn't kill them. I think the salt does. Ten years ago the recommended temp to kill ich was 82, and I always got rid of it back then within two weeks.

Can the angel tolerate 82, maybe with extra aeration? Where are ya, angel people? Lol.
 
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Mabbitt

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So I killed all the lights and keeping a blanket around the tank and am slowly upping the temp to 86 and adding the salt slowly at 10 gallons worth of the dosage on the bottle. The angelfish is a cross with a blue ram .. very pretty fish got from live aquaria.. I do not have a spare tank except a 3.5 gallon that's almost finished cycling but for my son to get a betta lol ... ive heard more success around with heat and salt vs meds... and even my trustworthy lfs guy said all the meds from stores are mostly money making and don't do much... hopefully survive it!! Thanks all for input too!

Also I took out 4.5 gallons of water so filter creates more oxygen and have a 1000 air pump with stone in waterfall decoration for more oxygen..

I am only gonna treat 40 gallons water with the salt make sure don't over salt as substrate takes up space and minus the 4.5 gallons out of the 50 gallon tank it is.
 

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@Mavbitt could you please place some pics of your fish here. I don't have a FB account so can't see them.

About the meds, that's partly correct.
Ich-parasites have a lifecycle an can only be killed in a free swimming fase. On the other hand there will definitely be free swimming parasites at this stage, so when you kill those they won't be able to infect your fish again. The ones on your fish will reach the same stage within days, so can be killed then.

Fish in an infected tank shouldn't be seperated (even if they don't show Ich) and treated together in the main tank.
 

DoubleDutch

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Looks like Ich indeed. Did you introduce something new into the tank?

If you've fish that can't cope with the tempraise simply use meds.
 
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Mabbitt

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Yeah I have but I'm certain the cause was in the heater messing up and spiking to 84 from 75 and then I unplugged the heater and let it go back down...
 

DoubleDutch

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Mabbitt said:
Yeah I have but I'm certain the cause was in the heater messing up and spiking to 84 from 75 and then I unplugged the heater and let it go back down...
Ich must be introduced from outside a tank.
 
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Mabbitt

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Ive heard that the fish can become infected due to drastic water quality changes or temp changes.. that's not true? If not then how does ich come about in first place?
 

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Yes, it's ich. Buy the appropriate ant-ich med, follow manufacturer instructions, and treat in the main tank. Don't separate and quarantine.
 

DoubleDutch

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Mabbitt said:
Ive heard that the fish can become infected due to drastic water quality changes or temp changes.. that's not true? If not then how does ich come about in first place?
There are stories that Ich is always dormant in any tank. In my opinion and knowledge that is incorrect
 

coralbandit

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Ich has to be introduced .
Your fish are infected enough that I would go right to meds ..
Rid Ich Plus ,not the herbal stuff.
You have to kill ich or it kills your fish .
It should not be a problem for you with the proper meds .
All level keepers should be able to wipe out ich in 10 days of meds ..
Please note all who recommended heat seem to have a little less experience then the ones who recommended meds ..
Just saying...
 

ShamFish97

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coralbandit said:
Ich has to be introduced .
Your fish are infected enough that I would go right to meds ..
Rid Ich Plus ,not the herbal stuff.
You have to kill ich or it kills your fish .
It should not be a problem for you with the proper meds .
All level keepers should be able to wipe out ich in 10 days of meds ..
Please note all who recommended heat seem to have a little less experience then the ones who recommended meds ..
Just saying...
Scrolling through this thread, I did not recommend heat. I said I turned the heat up once to treat Ich, and it worked. I also treated with meds during that time. Lol. A scroll through my other posts will lead you to evidence of suggesting medication and not salt/heat only

edit: oh
 

DoubleDutch

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ShamFish97 said:
Scrolling through this thread, nobody here recommended heat. I said I turned the heat up once to treat Ich, and it worked. I also treated with meds during that time. Lol. A scroll through my other posts will lead you to evidence of suggesting medication and not salt/heat only
I think you should scroll to the initial post then.
 
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Mabbitt

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Based on first response and other group and fb page more said heat / salt vs meds...
 

ShamFish97

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Mabbitt said:
Based on first response and other group and fb page more said heat / salt vs meds...
Let us know how it goes. I've used salt with invertebrates before, and they reacted to it but are doing fine. They can handle the salt in small amounts. Hope this helps with the Ich!
 

DoubleDutch

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I am a bit puzzled. I understood that there is one fish in that doesn't cope with higher temps (80F+). Ich is only killed by 86F+

Ich is quite easy to treat if one acts fast and in the appropriate way.

I personally don't exactly understand why, if heathtreatment isn't possible, meds aren't advised above other "home-treatments".

But maybe I misunderstood the entire thread
 

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