Important Is this Ich or Stress Ich and should I start treatment?

LadfromLondon

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The pictures aren’t great as the fish are so active! Whatever it is, it only seems to be on my tetras rather than my Rasboras. Fish in question haven’t shown me symptoms of ich as I see no glass surfing, loss of appetite, scratching themselves against ornaments and no hiding. There also doesn’t seem to be much difference than when I first saw these spots yesterday, but I do think I saw one tetra gain a spot. These pictures are from this morning.

However, I HAVE seen some small bursts of chasing, and this is usually done when they scans he around for food which I could link to stressing them out. They have been in my care since Friday and as you can see, are still juveniles which have been raised on a fish farm so again, I could also think poor prior nutrition has contributed to this too.

Regardless, I have medication to use if need be.As this tank was unstocked before I added these guys, this I guess is kind of a QT? Anyways let me know your thoughts! :)
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MacZ

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Whatever stress-ich may be (do you mean ich outbreaks caused by stress? That's still ich.), the main symptoms of ich are still just the dots, faster breathing and scratching. Sometimes the dots show first, sometimes last. I had fish eating and behaving absolutely normal until covered in dots.
Keep observing them closely, do not dose any meds proactively. Should more dots show up and they start scratching, you can still use them. You got a time window of 2-4 days until you have to decide to use the meds or not. I'd wait as long as possible with that.
Also, they seem unusually lightly coloured. Did you use a flash for the fotos?

Chasing is normal behaviour for cardinal tetras, they can be really nasty.
 
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LadfromLondon

LadfromLondon

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MacZ said:
Whatever stress-ich may be (do you mean ich outbreaks caused by stress? That's still ich.), the main symptoms of ich are still just the dots, faster breathing and scratching. Sometimes the dots show first, sometimes last. I had fish eating and behaving absolutely normal until covered in dots.
Keep observing them closely, do not dose any meds proactively. Should more dots show up and they start scratching, you can still use them. You got a time window of 2-4 days until you have to decide to use the meds or not. I'd wait as long as possible with that.
Also, they seem unusually lightly coloured. Did you use a flash for the fotos?

Chasing is normal behaviour for cardinal tetras, they can be really nasty.
Thank you for your advice! Yes I was referring to stress causing the ich. Would I see faster breathing despite running an air stone/sponge filter?

Just so I can clarify, I should avoid using the medication unless I see more spots/symptoms within the next 4 days? (This is my 4th day keeping them, second day of symptoms)

They are Green Neon Tetras so maybe that’s why?
 

Jeroen712

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Whenever my fish were sick they were heavy breathing, even with a big air stone, they still would. You could turn the heat up a bit and see if it goes away on it's own.
 
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LadfromLondon

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Jeroen712 said:
Whenever my fish were sick they were heavy breathing, even with a big air stone, they still would. You could turn the heat up a bit and see if it goes away on it's own.
Cheers! What temperature would you say would start to accelerate their cycle?
 

MacZ

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LadfromLondon said:
Thank you for your advice! Yes I was referring to stress causing the ich. Would I see faster breathing despite running an air stone/sponge filter?

Just so I can clarify, I should avoid using the medication unless I see more spots/symptoms within the next 4 days? (This is my 4th day keeping them, second day of symptoms)

They are Green Neon Tetras so maybe that’s why?
Yes, they breath faster despite aeration, because ich goes for the gills.

It's a general thing. Meds should only be used when a disease is confirmed. Any use of meds without clear diagnosis only breeds more resistant parasites and pathogens and stresses the fish unnecessary.

Oh, they're greens. Hm... should still not be that light. But it could also just be the light.
 
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LadfromLondon

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MacZ said:
Yes, they breath faster despite aeration, because ich goes for the gills.

It's a general thing. Meds should only be used when a disease is confirmed. Any use of meds without clear diagnosis only breeds more resistant parasites and pathogens and stresses the fish unnecessary.

Oh, they're greens. Hm... should still not be that light. But it could also just be the light.
Cheers! I’ll increase the temp over the day to 30C or slightly higher and I’ll see if this helps. I think it’s the light, some angles they look green and some angles they give off a blue! :)
 

MacZ

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Keep in mind, they likely don't do well much over 30°C, some closely related species are known to die upwards of 33°C.
I was referring to the red parts. The reflecting stripes don't change much, when the fish are stressed. The red parts instead go really pale.
 
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LadfromLondon

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I’ll keep it at 30, I think that should be good enough for a diagnosis. How long should I keep it at 30C?

Ooh, I see what you mean. I had a look at some pictures online against my guys, it doesn’t seem to be anything too dramatic. From the pictures online it also seems don’t have too much red colouration in general. I presume they are still settling!

Cheers bud :)
 

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MacZ said:
Whatever stress-ich may be (do you mean ich outbreaks caused by stress? That's still ich.), the main symptoms of ich are still just the dots, faster breathing and scratching. Sometimes the dots show first, sometimes last. I had fish eating and behaving absolutely normal until covered in dots.
Keep observing them closely, do not dose any meds proactively. Should more dots show up and they start scratching, you can still use them. You got a time window of 2-4 days until you have to decide to use the meds or not. I'd wait as long as possible with that.
Also, they seem unusually lightly coloured. Did you use a flash for the fotos?

Chasing is normal behaviour for cardinal tetras, they can be really nasty.
Agree . I always was under the impression that green tetras still were mainly wild caught.
 
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LadfromLondon

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DoubleDutch said:
Agree . I always was under the imptession that green tetras still were mainly wikd caught.
Unfortunately, I’m not too sure whether they were wild caught or not. I purchased from a site which I have used before and is a fish farm :)
 

MacZ

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LadfromLondon said:
I’ll keep it at 30, I think that should be good enough for a diagnosis. How long should I keep it at 30C?

Ooh, I see what you mean. I had a look at some pictures online against my guys, it doesn’t seem to be anything too dramatic. From the pictures online it also seems don’t have too much red colouration in general. I presume they are still settling!

Cheers bud :)
Keep it at 30°C for at least a week if it turns out to be ich and keep the aeration up, as warmer water can't keep as much solved oxygen as cooler water. If no more dots show up you can slowly dial down again after a few days.

Just keep the tank shady enough. Neons of all species prefer darker tanks.

LadfromLondon said:
Unfortunately, I’m not too sure whether they were wild caught or not. I purchased from a site which I have used before and is a fish farm :)
Doesn't have to mean much, many farms buy wholesale wild caughts.
 
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LadfromLondon

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MacZ said:
Keep it at 30°C for at least a week if it turns out to be ich and keep the aeration up, as warmer water can't keep as much solved oxygen as cooler water. If no more dots show up you can slowly dial down again after a few days.

Just keep the tank shady enough. Neons of all species prefer darker tanks.



Doesn't have to mean much, many farms buy wholesale wild caughts.
Thank you for your time and advice dude, I appreciate it! Hopefully it goes soon enough!
 

MacZ

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You're welcome!

In any case, if the temperature raise should not show results in case it's actually ich, you can still use meds. Can mean you have to dial down temp 2-3 degrees again, but we'll see.
 
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LadfromLondon

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MacZ said:
You're welcome!

In any case, if the temperature raise should not show results in case it's actually ich, you can still use meds. Can mean you have to dial down temp 2-3 degrees again, but we'll see.
Sweet! I’ll dial it 30C by the end of the day and I’ll post any updates on this thread :)
 
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LadfromLondon

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Update: I slowly brought the temperature of the tank up, getting it to 30C by the end of the day. I have woken up to see one Tetra with more spots than before, while the others looked the same or at least similar. I think this confirms it’s ich.

Should I carry on with the natural treatment? (Raising temp for a week) Or should I medicate? I know both are stressful to fish and I’m also a novice to this so I cannot say how hard a week’s temp increase will do to newly introduced fish but, I’m not sure the Rasboras will do well 2/3C out
their parameters.

I’ll follow y’alls advice as you know better than me :)
 

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I would just keep the temperature as it is for a few days and keep a close eye on them. If multiple Tetras get the white spots then i would treat it.
 
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LadfromLondon

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Jeroen712 said:
I would just keep the temperature as it is for a few days and keep a close eye on them. If multiple Tetras get the white spots then i would treat it.
Multiple Tetras have had the same amount of spots for 2 days now, with maybe one getting some more today. I’ll keep a close eye on things!
 
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LadfromLondon

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Update-Nothing really has changed, fish we’re eating yesterday and their behaviour seems the same. Haven’t seen an increase in spots but there definitely is spots still on them. Temp is still 29/30C...
 

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