Is this fin rot? Buenos Aires Tetra

magentatooth

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This fish I noticed has some discoloured tail a week ago just as I was about to catch a train :/ so I put a dose of white spot into the tank which was the only medicine I had.

Now I need to actually diagnose and treat it- is it fin rot? There are white ragged looking bits in all fins and the tail and also the gills.

All other fish look healthy

Thank you!
 

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magentatooth

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thank you - remove and let die? Or move to a small tank? Is it fatal?

The fish has had a weird body shape the whole time I have owned it (3 months, got second hand), only the fin has changed in the last 1.5 weeks. Was it the fin or the shape that makes you think that?

I have a bucket I can move it to if required
 

A201

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Not much of a chance for recovery. Columnaris is usually fatal. IMO best to euthanize.
 
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magentatooth

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Thanks very much - he or she is now out in a small tank with heater and filter, couldn’t bring myself to euthanise.

WIll monitor progress and or demise
 

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magentatooth

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Would you have a recommendation for what to do with the rest of the tank? Have inspected every fish (3 Buenos Aires, 4 harlequins, 4 swordtails which were new today from a family member) and none have any symptoms I can see.

I’m also at work tomorrow and unable to get anything until Monday - should I treat the whole tank with anything?

Thank you again
 

A201

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No need to treat the tank. Antibiotics wreck havoc on your aquarium environment. It would be a good idea to make a 50% water change & concentrate on keeping the tank clean.
The BA Tetra was evidently weakened by some unknown stressor making it suseptable to infection.
 
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magentatooth

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Another BA tetra has am tiny white patch with a red centre which could be a sore developing on the middle of the back. I plan to get them all out later (three remaining BA tetras) into another quarantine tank.

My fish I’m most worried for are the four swordtails I added yesterday - a gift from my mother’s tank.

Do you have any different advice? My main goal is to preserve the four swordtails. For example, I could also take out the harlequins and only leave the 4 swordtails and 3 cory’s in the 130l tank?
 

A201

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Really all you can do is keep the tank exceptionally clean & feed top quality foods. Boost immune system strategies.
 
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magentatooth

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Update: the sick BA tetra in the little hospital tank looks just the same in terms of the whiteness but has lost slightly more colour. Still swimming and eating well.

I fear she may be in there for a long time.

Do you think there is any prospect of recovery?
 

vyrille

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magentatooth said:
Update: the sick BA tetra in the little hospital tank looks just the same in terms of the whiteness but has lost slightly more colour. Still swimming and eating well.

I fear she may be in there for a long time.

Do you think there is any prospect of recovery?
Hi, do you have a recent picture of the quarantined BA? A full side-on view would be most helpful. And what of the others in the main tank?
 
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magentatooth

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Thanks - what I thought was a white lump on one of the main ones I think was just a reflective scale at a different angle or something - there is nothing to see on any of the three now. Last two are two of them, I can’t tell them apart.

The one in the quarantine looks relatively normal when seen alone - when in the main tank all the fins looks white pale as did the gills. Seeing her unlit she looks relatively normal except the paleness. Many thanks again for all your help.
 

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magentatooth said:
Thanks - what I thought was a white lump on one of the main ones I think was just a reflective scale at a different angle or something - there is nothing to see on any of the three now. Last two are two of them, I can’t tell them apart.

The one in the quarantine looks relatively normal when seen alone - when in the main tank all the fins looks white pale as did the gills. Seeing her unlit she looks relatively normal except the paleness. Many thanks again for all your help.
Wait a second, you're the one with an NTD neon right? Is this the same tank? Or did at any point this BA and that neon share a tank?
 
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magentatooth

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Yes - neon is now euthanised. I have two 130L tanks (tall ratio 2:2:1 H:W:D) identical base tank.

They never came from the same tank, but I use the same siphon to take water out, and also moved a thermometer over from Buenos tank to neon tank a few days ago. I think that’s the only shared items.

Black 130L has neons and all my favourite fish (about 30). Silver 130L has Buenos, and remaining fish (20 total).

Also have small 12L snail tank and the hospital tank with the sick Buenos in. I just closed and cleaned the 60L which was the neon quarantine.
 

vyrille

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magentatooth said:
Yes - neon is now euthanised. I have two 130L tanks (tall ratio 2:2:1 H:W:D) identical base tank.

They never came from the same tank, but I use the same siphon to take water out, and also moved a thermometer over from Buenos tank to neon tank a few days ago. I think that’s the only shared items.

Black 130L has neons and all my favourite fish (about 30). Silver 130L has Buenos, and remaining fish (20 total).

Also have small 12L snail tank and the hospital tank with the sick Buenos in. I just closed and cleaned the 60L which was the neon quarantine.
I see. On gross examination it is very difficult - if not impossible - to distinguish columnaris from NTD. If you had a probe and a dissecting lens, and with some experience, you conceivably could: NTD will have muscle necrosis while columnaris usually does not extend below the dermis - it will become systemic before it does. So NTD will feel like mush under a probe, while columnaris will initially feel mush, but will stop the probe at the musculature. Columnaris is a far more common condition, and that's what I'd usually suspect, but your history of having shared equipment with a suspected NTD case warrants reconsideration.

Anyway, to answer your question, you can attempt to treat it if you want to. NTD is incurable as yet, but not columnaris. The reason A201 said columnaris is nigh incurable is because of three important factors: drug selection, bacterial drug resistance, and severity of disease. And usually, all three are not properly accounted for and treatment inevitably fails. That said, without proper facilities we can only guess anyway. If it were me though, I would start with ciprofloxacin (or levofloxacin) coupled with oxytetracycline (or doxycycline). If you have access to these drugs and you wish to go ahead with treatment, do inform me so I can lay out how to dose them. Do remember the third factor however: if the disease is already in an advanced stage, medicating may only speed up its demise, so keep that in mind.
 
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magentatooth

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Thanks very much for the reply - at present I'd rather not treat with antibiotics but I'll have a think over the next few days and see how she does.

I was hoping to rehome the three BA tetras and also four Harlequin tetras from that tank, to leave: 4 swordtails, 4 hatchet fish, 3 other tetras (haven't identified them yet), 3 cory's. I wanted to reduce the number of species and increase the numbers of each species, or maybe reduce the water and have it as a riparium or palludarium.

What do you think would be a safe period to wait to check I don't have any more disease before I offer them out for rehoming?

Thanks again everyone for all the advice, it's been tremendously helpful.
 

vyrille

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magentatooth said:
Thanks very much for the reply - at present I'd rather not treat with antibiotics but I'll have a think over the next few days and see how she does.

I was hoping to rehome the three BA tetras and also four Harlequin tetras from that tank, to leave: 4 swordtails, 4 hatchet fish, 3 other tetras (haven't identified them yet), 3 cory's. I wanted to reduce the number of species and increase the numbers of each species, or maybe reduce the water and have it as a riparium or palludarium.

What do you think would be a safe period to wait to check I don't have any more disease before I offer them out for rehoming?

Thanks again everyone for all the advice, it's been tremendously helpful.
Well this falls under the third factor as well: severity of disease. I'll be a little blunt here, make the decision asap and stand by it. Because if you do decide to treat much later, it might be already too late for the BA (not saying it might not be already too late now, but you get the idea). (Some people are more attached to their pets than others, and I just want to preempt you. If you've already decided from the beginning to just stick to palliative (non-curative) treatment, then that's okay too)

Anyway, if you're keeping cories, I'd suggest having them in a group of 6 or more. They exhibit more playful behaviour in bigger groups (at least from what I observe).

I honestly can't say when. I would say 2 weeks minimum, 4 weeks recommended. Fish disease vary in course from less than 24 hrs to over years, but i'd say the most common will have reared their ugly heads by 4 weeks.
 

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