Is Rescuing Fish From An Lfs The Right Way?

Noticed a lot of threads lately about rescuing fish from horrible circumstances being displayed / sold in several LFS's.
Often bettas are involved but I've seen different fishspecies as well.

In my opinion doing so is keeping the trade going on and on in this way.
To me the only sollution is to NOT buy any fish in such an LFS and tell the owner so why you don't.

I Like to hear your opinions about this.

Kind regards, Aad

 

I agree, that when you buy something at a fish store, it encourages them to get more of it in hopes of selling more.

 

I agree with you DoubleDutch. I think you are just supporting their bad practices by buying the fish.

 

I agree as well, the only reason why bettas are in cups in the first place is because people will buy them in that state. If you really want to make a difference for the bettas in a store, talk to the manager and say that you won’t be buying anything from them until their fish are kept in better conditions.

 

I say it's not a rescue if you pay for the fish.. call it adoption maybe but not rescue

 

I agree also. As hard as it is to walk away, big chain stores are likely to see fish as inventory. Their decision about whether or not to continue to stock the fish will be based on cost benefit analysis (i.e. do they sell enough to make it profitable). People rescuing sick fish likely only strengthens the sales trade. These "rescue" fish would likely have died and would then be a write off and therefore unprofitable, if a store has too many losses, they would either have to reduce their orders or reconsider selling them. If the fish that would normally have been loses suddenly become as profitable to the store as a healthy fish, this means the store will continue to buy at higher volumes than needed, and the cycle of sick fish continues. IMO the best option is not only to not buy fish from stores with poor husbandry but to lodge formal complaints with the store (using photo evidence) of fish in dire conditions.

 

Think adoption is another thing to be honest. Lot of my fish are adopted from other keepers cause they didn't wanted them anymore. No money involved.

But indeed rescuing isn't correct either (in my (opinion)

I say it's not a rescue if you pay for the fish.. call it adoption maybe but not rescue

 

Friend of my even got a dog this way "Feeling so sorry the pup had to stay there day and night". Arghhhhhh

 

Mazeus Well said!

 

I have been one that has rescued fish in the past. My experience has been that while it is altruistic, the fish generally do not make it out of quarantine. I do not count as rescues the lone school fish that I have a school of at home. But I guess it is, all of our fur kids have been rescues in good health......

A hard question. But the above members points are very valid and deserve serious consideration.

 

It's very simple: with 'rescuing' one fish and spare him the suffering, you'll just send another fish into a bad life including the serious threat of dying.

Actually it is even worse. Because in stores like petCo, a lot of the fish die during transport, or because of ich outbreaks, bad filtration or whatever. So for every fish you buy there, others have died because they didn't make it till that point. For every fish you see swimming in the store, another one may have died in the process. So when you buy one of those fish the company will actually import two new ones, just because they know that one will likely die before it gets sold.

In my opinion buying from those companies only puts more fish in terrible living conditions. If you buy from them you're not only feeding the problem you are making it grow.

 

It's very simple: with 'rescuing' one fish and spare him the suffering, you'll just send another fish into a bad life including the serious threat of dying.

Actually it is even worse. Because in stores like petCo, a lot of the fish die during transport, or because of ich outbreaks, bad filtration or whatever. So for every fish you buy there, others have died because they didn't make it till that point. For every fish you see swimming in the store, another one may have died in the process. So when you buy one of those fish the company will actually import two new ones, just because they know that one will likely die before it gets sold.

In my opinion buying from those companies only puts more fish in terrible living conditions. If you buy from them you're not only feeding the problem you are making it grow.

Valid but there are many areas where the big box stores are the only game in town. We have one surviving fish store in our area and they offer only a 48 hour warranty with prices so high as to be absurd. So if I want fish it is the big box or on line. I at this point am not willing to buy live animals on line.

 

I agree DD, this something I’ve had an issue with for years. The thing that really bothers me isn’t necessarily someone “rescuing” an animal, but once they realise that it’s only supporting a cruel practice, they don’t care. They’ll often say things like, “Well, I can save him...” or “I just couldn’t leave him...”, which makes it seem as though they are placing different values on the lives of different fish. Similar to the store they oh so “hate.” “This fish I can see is more important then the next fish that’ll replace him in this miserable life.”

Or they will thouroghly realise what they are doing, but still support it because “no one else will stop doing it.” To that I must ask, what about me? Am I not a “one who stopped it.”? Also, if you do something simply because you believe no one will stand with you, then that’s extremely stupid. If everyone who thought that actually did something, then I honestly think this problem would be considerably smaller than it currently is. You can’t just continue to support something that’s wrong just because there aren’t enough people stopping. If you do that then there will never be a change, just constant complaining without anyone doing anything productive.

That’s what bother me. These people know the problem, they act like they care, but do they really?

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done “rescuing” prior too, but that was before I knew just how foolish and relatively cruel it was. So I do understand that feeling of wanting to “save” something without realising you are just condemning another. But once you realise it, I highly suggest being the change you want to see happen and not be dependent on others.

 

I would agree with DD that paying money to ‘rescue’ fish is not a rescue, it just tells companies that they’re selling & they will keep replacing stock.
Voting with your wallet really can work though, as an example... .. over here dyed fish are allowed to be sold as long as they’re not dyed here, but thanks to people being educated about them & refusing to buy them they’ve virtually disappeared from Lfs. On the very rare occasion they are spotted the news spreads like wildfire, not all publicity is good publicity, & they’re quickly removed from sale.
I know the US is a bigger problem as it’s such a huge country & it would take an awful lot of work to change attitudes there.

 

The stores near me have exceptional conditions for their fish, save for a few overstocked tanks. If I see a fish there I like I have no problem grabbing it. The only reason I buy from these stores is because of how their fish are kept. Each betta has a nice tank that it shares with two other bettas (tanks are split with opaque dividers) and MOST of the tanks are not overstocked.

If these stores did not keep their fish in nice conditions I absolutely would not buy from them. My LFS is awesome

 

I would like to make a point. Uneducated people (people who think bettas love small cups) will buy these cups. We can't stop other people from buying them, the least we can do is buy a betta to save it from spending its live in never cleaned water in a quart of water. People will still buy the cups. even if we do not

 

I would like to make a point. Uneducated people (people who think bettas love small cups) will buy these cups. We can't stop other people from buying them, the least we can do is buy a betta to save it from spending its live in never cleaned water in a quart of water. People will still buy the cups. even if we do not

That is true, but I believe the people who have an idea of what they are doing in the fish-trade actually are a large part of purchases of bettas. I’ve seen several breeder who’ll buy 10-20 bettas from petstores every year. Not to mention how many people who start enjoying the hobby purchase 1-2 every 2-3 months. These are all people who know what they are doing fish-wise and aren’t novices.

Also, there’s many novices who will realise that’s something’s wrong with their fish and try to find information on it. Then they may realise how cruel the petstores are treating the fish and decide to not support them. Sure there’s some who really don’t know and never will, but I believe the problem lies in those that do know.

Regardless, even if others who are new will continue to do so, I will not support animal abuse in anyway, which keeping fish in small containers without doing daily water changes or heating or properly caring for the ill is. This is kind of what I brought up in my post, simply supporting something you know is wrong just because others will continue to support it.

 

Interesting thread. As mentioned is it actually a "Rescue"? I agree some members have the best intentions, but they are actually enabling the cycle. Most "Big Box" stores in my area consider the "Wet Pets" as advertisement. Very few if any make a profit on the fish they sell, its the hardware (Tank, filter, chemicals,etc..) that are the big $$'s. Losses are factored in and expected,
I have visited all the Big "P" stores in my area and even purchased some fish. But after overhearing some conversations between their associates and the associates with clueless buyers, seeing too many floaters and large open bottles of "Ick" treatment right there next to the tanks. I no longer purchase their livestock. I understand some members think they have no alternative but to purchase from them. But some areas have Aquarium/Fish clubs, might want to check them out. Just my .02.

 

That exactly is the point.
But a new betta will still take its place then.
Saving one is making another take its place. Btw : I doubt this has anything to do with education.

I would like to make a point. Uneducated people (people who think bettas love small cups) will buy these cups. We can't stop other people from buying them, the least we can do is buy a betta to save it from spending its live in never cleaned water in a quart of water. People will still buy the cups. even if we do not

 

I just done buy because of the quality. Bettas last months while from breeders they last years.

 

This is very true. For example, the betta in my profile photo. I went to a 99cent store around my house to buy some stuff for my house and I saw that they had this one in a little cup with very dirty water! I felt terrible and shocked that a 99cent store would even be selling a fish. This is the only one they had so I thought it belonged to the owner maybe and he was just trying to get rid of it. I bought it and brought it home. He looked awful




Look at the difference from when I got him to now.

What happened? I went back to the store the other day and now they had a whole shelf with bettas in little cups! this made me feel awful as I feel like I encouraged them to sell more bettas by buying the only betta they had.

 

This is very true. For example, the betta in my profile photo. I went to a 99cent store around my house to buy some stuff for my house and I saw that they had this one in a little cup with very dirty water! I felt terrible and shocked that a 99cent store would even be selling a fish. This is the only one they had so I thought it belonged to the owner maybe and he was just trying to get rid of it. I bought it and brought it home. He looked awful

View attachment 481124

Look at the difference from when I got him to now.

What happened? I went back to the store the other day and now they had a whole shelf with bettas in little cups! this made me feel awful as I feel like I encouraged them to sell more bettas by buying the only betta they had.

Grrrrr sad story (but gave you a beautiful profilepic)

 

Valid but there are many areas where the big box stores are the only game in town. We have one surviving fish store in our area and they offer only a 48 hour warranty with prices so high as to be absurd.

Also, in many cases the big box store and LFS get their fish from the same wholesalers (e.g. Segrest Farms), so losses prior to reaching the store (during transport etc.) are the same either way. The variable is how they're treated in the store. Local fish stores are better on average but there are good and bad in both categories (big box and LFS).

 

What are your opinions on adoption from big box stores? I've adopted fish from PetSmart/Petco before. If they look real sick, they'll give them to me for free, but I do have to sign that I can't bring them back. Maybe it counts as a sale, but they don't get any money. I just hate the practice, it's upsetting

 

I will make it now

 

idk man... like, a life is a life. if you want to try to make a single pet store betta's life better by buying it, then by all means, I won't judge. yes, it is unfortunately supporting the corporation and the mass supply of bettas in cups, but in a more indirect, impersonal way. like I don't support chick fil a but I love their chicken strips and sauce lol. I was talking to someone about puppy mills and how the pet store in their mall likely gets their puppies from there (she goes there a lot to play with the puppies), to which she responded, "they may be from puppy mills, but they're still puppies. they deserve love just like any other puppy."

I feel like we may never reach the peak awareness that leads to boycotting and then banning such practices with fishkeeping, at least not for several decades. like... it's just hopeless even thinking about it. then after such small steps are taken, you have the inevitable conclusion, "well heck, fish shouldn't be kept in aquariums anyway, no matter how big it is," blah blah blah. it's just too big of a vicious cycle.

 

I wouldn't call it a 'rescue', but when it comes to a fish so popular (and mistreated) as bettas, they have three common fates: Death by cup, death by transport or death by improper care. All of these outcomes are bleak for the fish. Buying the fish and giving it the right conditions will be good for the fish as an individual.

 

These are the conditions you don't want. I actually smelled them 3 aisles away. There was one still alive, but there was no way I could bring myself to buy him. I didn't want them to make any money at all on them. I'll admit, it was hard to walk away.











The cups were stacked 3 deep. I approached a manager on duty but they couldn't care less. This isn't all the pics, but you get the idea.

 

I've had several "pity" bettas, many of which survived a couple years before passing, (Fury my little walmart betta being the last one, I have four others right now - the walmart near me rarely gets bettas in and generally just sells the equipment - people just have no interest in a betta that is priced at 4-6$ when they can go to the LPS down the road and get one cheaper -not that they are kept any better, a little more water and some gravel, but in a tiny bowl). I've also had bettas from breeders.

I do find the cups a terrible thing, and the fact that these chain stores advocate for tiny bowls or "tanks" (more like a jail cell) for this pretty much sentient creature and don't seem to care much when they become ill from the "care" they have received. The company heads are the ones that decide what and how (petco has a skew on their towers/stacks they have to follow or someone higher up will come down and stomp on their making sure the fish aren't trying to kill each other), these are the ones we need to convince to change this practice, not only would they be able to make more money this way (which would be a selling point to these people) as the bettas they stock are inbred and have many health issues (so you are lucky to get 2-3 years of happy life for these mistreated fish), but they would be able to improve their standing and ability to market.

My current bettas seem quite pleased to be out of their cups, which I am happy to say, but most bettas don't get that luxury and have to suffer poor quality care.

 

I have a limit on myself to one betta at a time. I have the one now in a 20 gallon that I eat my breakfast with everyday and spend hours sitting next to the tank. If I were to get more, I would want to treat them the same exact way. Because of that I cannot be tempted to buy more. I also believe that we are buying bettas, maybe even adopting. Not rescuing or anything like that.
Both of my bettas that I have had, have been pet store bettas. Am I supporting the trade? Sure. But let me just drag a quote I used on another thread recently (about betta cups) so I don't have to type it all out again lol.

"Honestly, if some forum users stop buying bettas, it isn't going to make a difference. You still have little kids with parents who want a cute bowl with cute plants and decor. Some of them are stubborn, you try talking them into something bigger and they get mad, thankfully this hasn't happened to me yet...
I will never stop buying pet store bettas, because I know nothing will change, at least not for a very long time. These petstores don't care about what some animal activists thinks, they care about money. If a person can buy a bowl, some decor, and a fish. Cool. If the fish dies, they go out and get another...and when that one dies they get another one. The cycle keeps going until the person becomes educated, tries a billion other things, or gives up. Pet stores don't like customers who know what they are doing, because that means less money..."
Obviously not the whole, entire post was quoted, some parts don't relate to this thread. But if ya'll really want to make a change, you need to get out there and tell people.
"...I chased a woman to her car when I saw she had two goldfish and a bowl. She explained to me it was a temporary thing for her kids and if they liked it she would get a bugger tank. I stopped a family from trying to breed bettas. Sometimes we just have to tell people, whether they like it or not. Educate the public, corporate doesn't care what you think. (it's harsh but true lol)"

 

This is very true. For example, the betta in my profile photo. I went to a 99cent store around my house to buy some stuff for my house and I saw that they had this one in a little cup with very dirty water! I felt terrible and shocked that a 99cent store would even be selling a fish. This is the only one they had so I thought it belonged to the owner maybe and he was just trying to get rid of it. I bought it and brought it home. He looked awful

View attachment 481124

Look at the difference from when I got him to now.

What happened? I went back to the store the other day and now they had a whole shelf with bettas in little cups! this made me feel awful as I feel like I encouraged them to sell more bettas by buying the only betta they had.

He looks like my betta, just veiltail

 

This brings tears in my eyes. It really does.
Maybe we should call our own species inhumans in stead of humans.

These are the conditions you don't want. I actually smelled them 3 aisles away. There was one still alive, but there was no way I could bring myself to buy him. I didn't want them to make any money at all on them. I'll admit, it was hard to walk away.

View attachment 481365 View attachment 481366 View attachment 481367 View attachment 481368 View attachment 481369 View attachment 481370 View attachment 481371 View attachment 481372

The cups were stacked 3 deep. I approached a manager on duty but they couldn't care less. This isn't all the pics, but you get the idea.

 

If you can get them to give it to you for free then you can call it a rescue but the moment money is exchanged its a purchase pure and simple it doesn't matter how you try to dress it up.

 

I only buy from breeders now. I have found a number of good online breeders who pack and ship well and the fish are beautiful and healthy. I’d much rather pay a little more and get good quality and better selection from a breeder.

 

My local pet-smart takes great care of their bettas and the only fish I am tempted to buy from them is a betta, and their other tanks get ich from time to time.

 

This has been a really interesting discussion so far.

they are placing different values on the lives of different fish.

This point is important, I think.

When somebody purchases a fish from bad conditions in a shop, to place them in better aquaria, there is indeed an individual 'rescue' narrative. The life of that individual fish has doubtless been improved.

I think there are certain cases where rescuing a fish like this is arguably the 'right' thing to do.

For example: imagine you own 8 unusual tetras in a good tank. You encounter a lone specimen of this species in the shop; it's rare, so unlikely the shop will stock more soon. It is very unlikely this fish will find a good home, unless purchased by somebody who already owns a shoal.

In this case, the aquarist is dealing with a very specific problem, which does not extend far beyond the fate of one fish. The problem can be satisfactorily solved by rescuing one fish.

However, in the case of US Walmart betta cups, we must return to Platylover's point. The question I ask is, where does that person stop?

Consider the case of somebody rescuing a betta from a US Walmart shop. Surely, by rescuing one betta from the many, the aquarist privileges the life of that particular betta over the bettas that remain in Walmart.

As has been repeatedly said here, once Betta A is rescued, Betta B will simply replace him when Walmart's new stock arrives. The problem continues in a cycle.

Betta A's life improves; this is valuable. But how does the aquarist decide which betta's life to improve? I can't answer that.

That said, to me, the betta cup issue, alongside other welfare problems in the trade, is not one which can be solved by consumers voting with their wallets. That would require cohesive action across the population, which is very unlikely.

I can see two solutions to the betta cup problem. Firstly, government regulation could end the practice, as it has with many animal cruelty cases. Secondly, effective animal rights campaigns could both pressure governments to legislate and persuade wider audiences of consumers against purchasing shop bettas.

 

I honestly sometimes wonder if the stores don't do this on purpose with the bad conditions and hopes that people feel bad and that's why they'll keep coming back for more because they have a conscience and can't stand to see the suffering of an animal but in that same sentence it's just as bad because they just keep getting more and more and that's how they keep their business going... It really is a messed up situation!

Sent from my SM-S903VL using

 

The way I see it, if an animal is suffering and I can help it get better, I'm going to help it get better. Why should I leave it there when it's so obviously in distress? I honestly can't ignore it. It's just not right to leave it there. If I have to buy it to help it, ok fine. I usually ask and get a discount .

It doesn't matter if it's a fish or a mouse. If it has to die, kill it quick and don't make it suffer. If it gets to live, treat it right and take care of it.

 

Why should I leave it there when it's so obviously in distress?

Because by buying it you're financially sponsoring keeping animals in those conditions.

 

These are the conditions you don't want. I actually smelled them 3 aisles away. There was one still alive, but there was no way I could bring myself to buy him. I didn't want them to make any money at all on them. I'll admit, it was hard to walk away.

View attachment 481365 View attachment 481366 View attachment 481367 View attachment 481368 View attachment 481369 View attachment 481370 View attachment 481371 View attachment 481372

The cups were stacked 3 deep. I approached a manager on duty but they couldn't care less. This isn't all the pics, but you get the idea.

This might be a case where social media (Facebook, Reddit, whatever) might be of use. The social media mob loves a good bandwagon. If this store suddenly got tons of complaints, they might at least so something about the water conditions. I've never seen water that bad at stores before. They should be ashamed. and now that we want to encourage their sales practices, but that's even just bad business. I think I'd be tempted to complain to corporate in that case. Yuck!