Is my betta pineconing????

I can’t tell if my betta is pineconing or not. Her scales aren’t raised but from a top view look a little spiky. I’m really worried as she’s the fish that got me into this hobby and I love her to pieces.
She is overweight and has always been a bit chunky if that changes anything.

I can’t tell if my betta is pineconing or not. Her scales aren’t raised but from a top view look a little spiky. I’m really worried as she’s the fish that got me into this hobby and I love her to pieces.
She is overweight and has always been a bit chunky if that changes anything.

Just an extra note but it seems the spiky scales are only on her stomach as opposed to being on her entire body. Just adding this because sometimes bettas pinecone after eating

 

I can’t tell if my betta is pineconing or not. Her scales aren’t raised but from a top view look a little spiky. I’m really worried as she’s the fish that got me into this hobby and I love her to pieces.
She is overweight and has always been a bit chunky if that changes anything.

Just an extra note but it seems the spiky scales are only on her stomach as opposed to being on her entire body. Just adding this because sometimes bettas pinecone after eating

No fish should show raised scales after eating even if it has gorged itself to the limit its body can take in. I had one betta that gorged itself beyond reason on scuds - at the time, it didn’t occur to me that the fish would even notice scuds and I’d temporarily housed it in a tank full of them.

That fish ate so many that it looked like it had a bad case of stomach bloat but there was not a raised scale to be seen and its stomach shrank back to normal in a surprisingly short time. It was a terrible glutton but after that I put some limits on how much food he had access to.

 

No fish should show raised scales after eating even if it has gorged itself to the limit its body can take in.

Oh okay. Does it look like she’s pineconing though, as that’s what I’m really worried about

 

I can’t tell if my betta is pineconing or not. Her scales aren’t raised but from a top view look a little spiky. I’m really worried as she’s the fish that got me into this hobby and I love her to pieces.
She is overweight and has always been a bit chunky if that changes anything.

Just an extra note but it seems the spiky scales are only on her stomach as opposed to being on her entire body. Just adding this because sometimes bettas pinecone after eating

Can you get an image of this fish showing it from the side in profile?

 

Can you get an image of this fish showing it from the side in profile?

Sure

 

Judging by the first pics I'd say yes signs of dropsy. I can see the scales sticking out on one side. The next set of photos is very bloated - can't say what causes this, but way larger than normal.

As mentioned above they don't raise their scales, though I know little about this. I once read fish can do that to cool down, but that could have been totally false or just certain kinds.

I'm leaning towards it being dropsy, a symptom, but the cause unknown. Putting kanaplex in their food can help, but it's no guarantee. Dropsy, from what I know, is the result of organ/kidney failure caused by something.

 

Looks bloated what are water parameters and tank size

 

Sure

Oh, poor fish. I am so sorry to say it but this fish is not going to get better. Exactly what causes the stomach area to enlarge to that degree is a little hard to say but the tissues also appear to be a bit bloated - perhaps not full blown dropsy just yet but some scales are raised, which is never a good sign.

The most likely underlying cause is a mycobacterial infection. The coelomic cavity has filled with fluid, putting pressure on all the internal organs and the kidney’s are either failing or have failed.

If this was my fish, well, I’d humanely euthanize it now. I am so sorry.

Judging by the first pics I'd say yes signs of dropsy. I can see the scales sticking out on one side. The next set of photos is very bloated - can't say what causes this, but way larger than normal.

As mentioned above they don't raise their scales, though I know little about this. I once read fish can do that to cool down, but that could have been totally false or just certain kinds.

I'm leaning towards it being dropsy, a symptom, but the cause unknown. Putting kanaplex in their food can help, but it's no guarantee. Dropsy, from what I know, is the result of organ/kidney failure caused by something.

With a bare handful of exceptions, fish are poikilotherms, meaning they cannot generate internal heat. They’re the temperature of the water around them almost always. A few species can generate some heat, not a lot but some, using a countercurrent blood flow to generate some warmth, like Bluefin tuna which are able to raise their body temp’ some 21C above the ambient water temperature.

But if water is too warm for fish then the only way they can cool off is to swim to find cooler water. No fish raises its scales to shed body heat.]

 

Oh, poor fish. I am so sorry to say it but this fish is not going to get better. Exactly what causes the stomach area to enlarge to that degree is a little hard to say but the tissues also appear to be a bit bloated - perhaps not full blown dropsy just yet but some scales are raised, which is never a good sign.

The most likely underlying cause is a mycobacterial infection. The coelomic cavity has filled with fluid, putting pressure on all the internal organs and the kidney’s are either failing or have failed.

If this was my fish, well, I’d humanely euthanize it now. I am so sorry.

With a bare handful of exceptions, fish are poikilotherms, meaning they cannot generate internal heat. They’re the temperature of the water around them almost always. A few species can generate some heat, not a lot but some, using a countercurrent blood flow to generate some warmth, like Bluefin tuna which are able to raise their body temp’ some 21C above the ambient water temperature.

But if water is too warm for fish then the only way they can cool off is to swim to find cooler water. No fish raises its scales to shed body heat.]

Oh man. That hits hard.. I won’t euthanize her at least for the moment because she seems to be happy enough, she still swims around and eats. The water is consistently around 80F and I do frequent water changes so it isn’t a quality problem. I’m really saddened by this, though I guess the bright side is after she dies I can rescue another disabled/sick betta.

Oh, poor fish. I am so sorry to say it but this fish is not going to get better. Exactly what causes the stomach area to enlarge to that degree is a little hard to say but the tissues also appear to be a bit bloated - perhaps not full blown dropsy just yet but some scales are raised, which is never a good sign.

The most likely underlying cause is a mycobacterial infection. The coelomic cavity has filled with fluid, putting pressure on all the internal organs and the kidney’s are either failing or have failed.

If this was my fish, well, I’d humanely euthanize it now. I am so sorry.

With a bare handful of exceptions, fish are poikilotherms, meaning they cannot generate internal heat. They’re the temperature of the water around them almost always. A few species can generate some heat, not a lot but some, using a countercurrent blood flow to generate some warmth, like Bluefin tuna which are able to raise their body temp’ some 21C above the ambient water temperature.

But if water is too warm for fish then the only way they can cool off is to swim to find cooler water. No fish raises its scales to shed body heat.]

I’m guessing the cause might also be that she has a big tumor she developed on her stomach from a young age (around 4-6 months). Never quite knew the cause of the growth but I knew it would probably cause organ failure some day..

 

Oh man. That hits hard.. I won’t euthanize her at least for the moment because she seems to be happy enough, she still swims around and eats. The water is consistently around 80F and I do frequent water changes so it isn’t a quality problem. I’m really saddened by this, though I guess the bright side is after she dies I can rescue another disabled/sick betta.

I’m guessing the cause might also be that she has a big tumor she developed on her stomach from a young age (around 4-6 months). Never quite knew the cause of the growth but I knew it would probably cause organ failure some day..

A tumour could explain the condition she’s in too. It’s always a judgement call on when to send them on their way over the bridge. I am very sorry it’s turned out this way.

 

A tumour could explain the condition she’s in too. It’s always a judgement call on when to send them on their way over the bridge. I am very sorry it’s turned out this way.

Thanks. I guess all I can do now is give her salt baths and spoil her until the time comes

 

Thanks. I guess all I can do now is give her salt baths and spoil her until the time comes

The salt baths will not help, but they will cause stress for the fish so I would not do anymore salt baths. Salt isn’t really a healing agent per se, but where fish are very ill, a certain level of salt in the water makes it easier for them to osmoregulate. So they spend less energy on osmoregulation and thus have a bit more energy to spend on healing.

But if you use salt for this purpose, you use it in the tank, not as a bath, but salt is no good for live plants or some inverts, if the tank has any inverts living in it.

 

The salt baths will not help, but they will cause stress for the fish so I would not do anymore salt baths. Salt isn’t really a healing agent per se, but where fish are very ill, a certain level of salt in the water makes it easier for them to osmoregulate. So they spend less energy on osmoregulation and thus have a bit more energy to spend on healing.

But if you use salt for this purpose, you use it in the tank, not as a bath, but salt is no good for live plants or some inverts, if the tank has any inverts living in it.

I recently read that salt baths help to pull away some of the fluid from the cavity of a fish affected by dropsy, not sure if that was correct or not though. Unfortunately putting salt the tank itself isn’t much of an option unless I move out the plants and snail from the tank. If you have any other solutions to help my betta out please let me know <3

The salt baths will not help, but they will cause stress for the fish so I would not do anymore salt baths. Salt isn’t really a healing agent per se, but where fish are very ill, a certain level of salt in the water makes it easier for them to osmoregulate. So they spend less energy on osmoregulation and thus have a bit more energy to spend on healing.

But if you use salt for this purpose, you use it in the tank, not as a bath, but salt is no good for live plants or some inverts, if the tank has any inverts living in it.

I recently read that salt baths help to pull away some of the fluid from the cavity of a fish affected by dropsy, not sure if that was correct or not though. Unfortunately putting salt the tank itself isn’t much of an option unless I move out the plants and snail from the tank. If you have any other solutions to help

 

I recently read that salt baths help to pull away some of the fluid from the cavity of a fish affected by dropsy, not sure if that was correct or not though. Unfortunately putting salt the tank itself isn’t much of an option unless I move out the plants and snail from the tank. If you have any other solutions to help my betta out please let me know <3

I recently read that salt baths help to pull away some of the fluid from the cavity of a fish affected by dropsy, not sure if that was correct or not though. Unfortunately putting salt the tank itself isn’t much of an option unless I move out the plants and snail from the tank. If you have any other solutions to help

It is commonly believed that an EPSOM salt bath helps draw out excess fluids but unfortunately there is no evidence that this is true. It’s such a common belief, not just for fish but for humans with swelling, that nobody questions it.

There are no studies that support this idea that I have ever been able to find but in humans, to get a high enough salt concentration to make osmosis flow toward the bath from inside a human would take far more Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) than anyone ever uses - to the tune of a half pound of the stuff per gallon of water!

Fish are not human and osmosis functions for them much differently than it does for our skin but even so, freshwater fish are always taking water IN. To make osmosis go the other way you’d have to use a lot more Epsom than the usual 1 Tbsp/gallon - and then you’d dehydrate the entire fish, much as you would if you dunked it in seawater where the high concentration of sodium chloride (salt) would pull their fluids out and kill them.

So I am extremely doubtful that Epsom baths do any good at all and for this poor fish, they’re not going to do anything that would make it worth the stress, though that is only my personal opinion.

I get that anyone with a sick fish wants to do anything possible to help it and if you want to give it Epsom salt baths, by all means do so, but using ordinary salt is pointless - it is Epsom salt that’s used for this purpose.

 

It is commonly believed that an EPSOM salt bath helps draw out excess fluids but unfortunately there is no evidence that this is true. It’s such a common belief, not just for fish but for humans with swelling, that nobody questions it.

There are no studies that support this idea that I have ever been able to find but in humans, to get a high enough salt concentration to make osmosis flow toward the bath from inside a human would take far more Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) than anyone ever uses - to the tune of a half pound of the stuff per gallon of water!

Fish are not human and osmosis functions for them much differently than it does for our skin but even so, freshwater fish are always taking water IN. To make osmosis go the other way you’d have to use a lot more Epsom than the usual 1 Tbsp/gallon - and then you’d dehydrate the entire fish, much as you would if you dunked it in seawater where the high concentration of sodium chloride (salt) would pull their fluids out and kill them.

So I am extremely doubtful that Epsom baths do any good at all and for this poor fish, they’re not going to do anything that would make it worth the stress, though that is only my personal opinion.

I get that anyone with a sick fish wants to do anything possible to help it and if you want to give it Epsom salt baths, by all means do so, but using ordinary salt is pointless - it is Epsom salt that’s used for this purpose.

Luckily I haven’t given her any baths yet and I don’t own Epsom salt atm I only have Jungle aquarium salt for when she got ick. I didn’t know that the fish community had its myths too lol

 

Luckily I haven’t given her any baths yet and I don’t own Epsom salt atm I only have Jungle aquarium salt for when she got ick. I didn’t know that the fish community had its myths too lol

Lots of ’em and many perpetuated ad infinitum by the good old interweb, which does not help.

 

Lots of ’em and many perpetuated ad infinitum by the good old interweb, which does not help.

Not surprising, it seems like every community has it perpetual myths and rumors!

 

Not surprising, it seems like every community has it perpetual myths and rumors!

Truer words and all that - every hobby has its myths and the old ‘hey, that’s how it’s always been done’ or ‘good enough for Dad ( Uncle, Grandma, whoever), good enough for me!’

 

Truer words and all that - every hobby has its myths and the old ‘hey, that’s how it’s always been done’ or ‘good enough for Dad ( Uncle, Grandma, whoever), good enough for me!’

Haha yeah