Is It Too Late?

Discussion in 'Freshwater Beginners' started by CloudKeeper, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    One of the three of my White Cloud Mountain Minnows has Cotton Mouth. I've been using API Fungus Cure to treat it...The size of the cottony stuff has fluctuated over the two treatments I've used this. When I saw the weird transparent stuff I immediately moved him to a plastic container (I don't have a quarantine tank).

    It took me three days after I spotted it to obtain the treatment (Was this where I went wrong?), I moved my WCMM back with the others, and started to treat the tank. The first round didn't work, so I did the 25% water change, put some carbon filters in, and got as much of the green water as I could out of the tank, as quickly as possible.

    The second round of medication went the same way. The fungus growing/shrinking, and not going away after the ~6 days of treatment. The only bright side to this is that the medication seems to have controlled the spreading of the disease.

    But the worst part is I'm leaving for a 4-days this time next week (Saturday).

    It's been two weeks since this started, so I come to the fish hobbyists of the internet for some advice: Is it too late to save him? Should I euthanize one to save the other two? Or should I keep trying? Because they aren't even eating anymore. And WCMMs are schooling fish, so I doubt they'll come to the surface to eat when there's only two of them.

    Thank you for reading my rant, and much more thanks if you have anything to share.

  2. Coradee Moderator Moderator Member

    Welcome to Fishlore, sorry you're having a problem, a clear pic if you can get one would help us to see what you're describing, also water test results if you could post them may help to give clues as to what may be happening.

  3. OnTheFly Well Known Member Member

    I've never see a schooling fish refuse to eat when he is not part of a school. They don't prefer to be alone, but I've never seen a healthy fish starve himself out for long.

  4. Tiny_Tanganyikans Well Known Member Member

    For the original fish it may be too late. This bacteria is pretty bad unless treated early. Columnaris spreads quite quickly in warm water. I know many people have used Maracyn and Maracyn 2 for it but my only experience with columnaris was combatted with a medicated food mix of Kanaplex, garlic guard, and focus. Focus binds kanaplex to the food and has anti bacteria properties while garlic guard will encourage the fish to eat.

  5. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = ~20. As for a picture, it's rare they come out of one of the aquarium decorations. Plus the cotton-like stuff hasn't grown much (good sign, right?) so it's hard to get a good picture.

    Was afraid of that...I've added cold-er water during water changes in hope of slowing it down. I'm going to try Kordon Fungus Rid, an herbal medicine, and Almond Leaves as a last resort (Maybe they'll graze on the leaves). I'd try the Kanaplex + Garlic guard method if I wasn't leaving in about a week...Unless that treatment is low maintenance and doesn't need attention for a few days?

    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2017
  6. Tiny_Tanganyikans Well Known Member Member

    It's a bacteria and not a fungus unless I'm incorrect
  7. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    Hah, yes, I'm I realized this before I bought it. Decided on API Pimafix + Aquarium salt. Fingers crossed it works. If not, and Almond Leaves don't work either, I have clove oil on standby.. :'I
  8. Dragones5150918 Well Known Member Member

    Pimafix won't work. It will work only in very mild cases. Salt, though will help kill some bacteria, it won't work on mouth rot. You need antibacterial medication.
  9. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    What do you recommend? I've tried API Fungus Cure.
  10. Dragones5150918 Well Known Member Member

    Kanaplex is the best, but hard on the fish kidneys. Furan2 should work ad well.
  11. AvalancheDave Well Known Member Member

    Fungus Cure is malachite green for Saprolegnia and methylene blue for Columnaris. Malachite green is the best treatment for Saprolegnia but I don't know if the dosage is correct. Methylene blue isn't the best treatment for Columnaris but sometimes it's good enough. If it's not working then step it up to antibiotics. Trimethoprim sulfa (not triple sulfa) is another option.

    Columnaris is easy to treat with antibiotics. Sometimes it spreads too quickly and isn't treated soon enough. Those are the untreatable cases and those fish die before you can euthanize them.
  12. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    This WCMM of mine has had -- what I believe to be -- Columnaris for just over two weeks. For the majority of those two weeks I used API's Fungus Cure (Which contains "Victoria Green B", I assume that's similar to malachite green?). It didn't cure it, but has definitely kept it under control -- the other two WCMM's in my tank don't show any signs of it...Yet, I guess.
    Should I euthanize the one before it spreads? The only problem is they're schoolings fish, and they're already not eating. And I doubt taking away one of their numbers will increase their sense of security.

    P.S., Cottom Mouth, Mouth Fungus, and Mouth Rot are all names for Columnaris, correct??
  13. AvalancheDave Well Known Member Member

    Saddleback is another name. I'm pretty sure malachite and Victoria green are the same or very similar.

    Columnaris is in all aquarium water so all fish are exposed all the time. As long as the other fish aren't subject to stress they should be fine.

    Fish can go for awhile without eating. If they're sick they often won't eat. Treating the infection should solve all the problems.
  14. Tiny_Tanganyikans Well Known Member Member

    Cottonmouth, mouth rot, mouth fungus are indeed columnaris. It's mistakenly called mouth fungus as it resembles fungus. It's indeed a bacterial infection and a quite contagious one. With the first who's been sick for a while it's most likely too late for him. I don't like to euthanize if I don't have to and I believe I can help. The others might not be eating because that's one of the first signs of infection. They have hope if treated correctly with the correct medication. Schooling or not it has no effect on them eating if they're by themselves or with a thousand friends. Theyre not eating because of the bacteria
  15. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    So I should just euthanize the first fish? Do you think API Fungus Cure + API Pimafix + Aquarium Salt will do the trick of the other two?
    I guess I should also clarify that they all stopped eating after a Mosquito fish I had died. This Mosquito fish would usually come to the surface first to find the food, and the others would follow...sounds kind of stupid, I know, but that's how it seemed since they stopped coming up top 95% of the time after he passed.
    Any explanations for this?
  16. Tiny_Tanganyikans Well Known Member Member

    Neither of those medications will help and are probably ccausing more harm then good and at least stressing your fish.

    The mosquito fish might of died from the same or another reason. Stress causes fishes immune systems to weaken.. and is how they get sick.
  17. Dragones5150918 Well Known Member Member

    To your first question, it really depends on how far it spread.

    To your second question, doubt it.

    Do you know what caused the mosquito fish to pass? Did it have the same thing? Something else?

    Most fungal and bacterial problems can be contributed to water quality. Fungal and bacteria are opportunistic problems caused when the fish loose their natural slime coat. Temperature swings, ph swings, ammonia and/or nitrite in the water, high nitrate, not enough minerals in the water for their osmotic process, failure to dechlornate water, and the list goes on. These things can cause the fish stress, which in turn effects the slime coat, which allows the fungus and bacterial to catch hold and set in.

    My suggestion is to look at your water quality. So instead of just treating the symptoms, look at the root of the problem. So please answer these questions.

    Size of tank?
    Last water change?
    What kind of filter and how was it cleaned last?
    Is the tank heated?
    What is the temperature of the tank?
    What is your last parameter test? (ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate)
    What is your current parameter test?
    Are you using liquid test or strips?
  18. CloudKeeper Valued Member Member

    Er, the Mosquito fish jumped out of the tank. I left the lid open to help with condensation on the ceiling of the aquarium lid...Lesson learned.
    Before the Mosquito fish died, everything was fine. The only thing I can think of is the pH was a little high at the time, but they seemed pretty well acclimated to it.

    To answer your questions:
    Ten gallons
    Yesterday (Sunday).
    Marina S15. I don't clean the filter, but I rinse one of the three cartridges every week. (There is currently none in there...Still trying Pimafix)
    It's not heated.
    Temp is about 74
    I checked parameters on Saturday.
    Ammonia ~0, Nitrite ~0, Nitrate ~10 - 20
    I'm using API Master Freshwater Test kit. (Test tubes and solutions).

    Thank you for your help.
  19. Dragones5150918 Well Known Member Member

    I'm sorry I didn't answer sooner, life got pretty crazy for me.

    Mosquito fish are not known to be jumpers. Granted they can live in some pretty bad water quality, I'm still thinking it's something with your water. Your initial readings are great, so I'll like to dive deeper to find the possible root of the problem. Sorry for more questions.

    What is your water source? City, well, filtered, RO/DI, softened, captured rain water, etc.
    Do you by chance know your kh and gh of you tank and water source?
    You said your water ph is a little high, what is the actual ph? Do you use products like PH Down to manage it?
    What do you use to treat your water? Prime, stress coat, etc.
    If you use city water, have you checked your water quality report? What does it say?
    If you use well water, how deep is your well? Is it in limestone? Is it self filling or do you truck in your water?
    If you use filter or RO, when was your last filter change?
    If you use a water softener system, when was the last pellet change? Do you have a focet not on the system? Have you tested that water?
  20. AvalancheDave Well Known Member Member

    If Pimafix is as pungent and irritating as Melafix I can see why the fish jumped.