Is it common to not find all your fish when starting a new tank?

I added 6 danios on the 23rd to a new tank that had been running since the 16th and on the 30th I added 6 panda tetras. For the most part the danios hid for the first week except for one or two. When feeding them I couldn't tell if all the danios came out cause they are so darn fast and it is hard to tell the difference between them because they are so similar looking. The same thing is happening with the tetras now. When I feed I only count about 8 fish total. I haven't seen any dead ones. I don't want to stress them out by removing all the decor temporarily. Should I just ride it out and not worry about it for now? Water parameter seem ok. Not sure of exact readings.

 

How big is this tank? I see 23 gallons that’s a lot of fish fast for that size tank. Seems like your going very fast adding a lot of fish very quickly. Slower the better.
I’d say no these fish are normally out and very active. Normally you would see them fairly quickly after adding them.
Test your water and see what your parameters are especially if your tank wasn’t cycled before adding fish.
You say water parameters seem ok but don’t know the exact number what do you mean by this? Visually looks ok or you actually tested it?

 

Well to start with it sounds like you didn’t cycle your tank so some deaths are probably gonna happen unless you check your water parameters often and do water changes and use Prime....otherwise yes , once in a while I won’t find a fish and next thing he is back.

 

I use Prime every time I do a water change. As far as cycling the tank I added the recommended dose of API Quick Start immediately before adding the fish and then a half dose for a week after. So I've been dosing with Quick start every day since the 23rd. These recommendations are from my LFS.

As far as testing the the water I have done it every day since putting fish in the tank. I am using the Tetra strips. They recommended I use those first due to ease of use and recommended I bring my water in for them to test prior to adding fish each time.

 

Danios are not hiders. if they hid I think something was off.
The tank would not be cycled yet unless you added used filter media or a used filter.
But I think It is more likely an acclimation issue that caused them to hide. probobly caused temperature and or ph shock.
You need to carefully acclimate new fish -
Add small amounts of tank water to the bag, no more then ten percent at a time. , then float the bag 15-20 minutes, then add more tank water, no more then ten percent again, float, reapeat, continue for 60-90 minutes, throwing away bag water if needed. Try not to add it to your tank.

 

Danios are not hiders. if they hid I think something was off.
The tank would not be cycled yet unless you added used filter media or a used filter.
But I think It is more likely an acclimation issue that caused them to hide. probobly caused temperature and or ph shock.
You need to carefully acclimate new fish -
Add small amounts of tank water to the bag, no more then ten percent at a time. , then float the bag 15-20 minutes, then add more tank water, no more then ten percent again, float, reapeat, continue for 60-90 minutes, throwing away bag water if needed. Try not to add it to your tank.

I've kind of been doing it that way. I let bag sit for 10 minutes in tank, add coffee cup size amount of tank water and sit 10 minutes, repeat and then pour water through net into bucket and add fish to tank.

I thought Danios were schooling fish but they sure don't seem to school. Both the Tetras and Danios are more shoaling fish than schooling fish right now. I have a feeling that they might be just getting used to their new habitat.

Wouldn't it be pretty obvious if a fish died? I thought they usually float for a little while. I'm trying to do everything to a "T" so I have success. Maybe I'm being to anxious.

 

Nice to hear that you acclimate them!
We all have different ideas of what schooling and shoaling is. The important thing is that they act semI normal. Danios are generally buzzing around near the top of the water chasing each other around. Hiding and sleeping like maybe neon teras and others do, isn't normal, but hopefull they just need time to adjust. Was their a big difference in the temperature in the water between your tank and the petstores?

I rarely find dead fish, I think That my Loaches, which I have have had for like 8 years dissapear the bodies. but other species do that too. It definitely causes confusion when trying to count my fish.

 

I've kind of been doing it that way. I let bag sit for 10 minutes in tank, add coffee cup size amount of tank water and sit 10 minutes, repeat and then pour water through net into bucket and add fish to tank.

I thought Danios were schooling fish but they sure don't seem to school. Both the Tetras and Danios are more shoaling fish than schooling fish right now. I have a feeling that they might be just getting used to their new habitat.

Wouldn't it be pretty obvious if a fish died? I thought they usually float for a little while. I'm trying to do everything to a "T" so I have success. Maybe I'm being to anxious.

They float if their bodies and guts are intact. If their abdomen is gone, no gasses are in them to make them float.

 

Well I lost my first fish. I hope it wasn't something I did. Some are still hiding. I hope they aren't sick too. See my sick fish post if interested. Thanks for the replies. I was hoping they were just getting used to the tank and their new tank mates.

Wow, the fish are a lot more active for some reason once the sick fish was removed.

 

I think all are waiting for your water parameter numbers. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and ph. I know Momgoose56 needs this info to help.

 

That's a lot of fish all at once in an tank that isn't cycled, so you probably lost some due to stress, water parameters, etc. Youll want to do some regular water changes (daily maybe) for a few weeks anyway while the tank cycles. Get yourself an API Master kit as the liquid tests are WAY better (more accurate) than the strips.

And no, you may not see a fish that died. The others could eat it, pic it apart until it goes up the filter, etc. I have been watching my 12 year old Cory do down hill over the past 2 months. One day he looked dead (but wasn't) and I thought about removing him and euthanizing him. An hour later I returned to the tank and couldnt find him. 15 Black Neons, 10 Corys (counting him) and a 3" Clown Pleco are the only inhabitants. This 3" FAT Cory was gone. Completely.

 

Hey! Congratulations on getting into the hobby! It seems like in terms of acclimating the fish, you're doing phenomenally! With a 23G tank, it does seem like a lot of fish, though I'm ridiculously conservative in timing of adding fish. Going from a new tank to a fully (or close to fully) stocked tank in a few weeks is pretty ambitious. When my tank cycled, the ammonia spike hit about 2-3 weeks in. If you haven't seen an ammonia spike, be looking for one, and you'll need to be really on top of it. I didn't see anything about using any other tank's media, so I'd expect you to have one. I'd caution you against using the strips and if you're serious about keeping a tank, go get an API Freshwater Master Test Kit. They're far more accurate (and by that I mean I was using the strips and kept getting a 0 reading, took it to a store who used strips and they got a 0 reading, bought a test kit with my next round of fish and tested it to have it read between 2.0 and 4.0ppm ammonia the same day).

Are you planning on adding any more fish or are you where you want to be? I'd be careful about adding any more until you know your tank is fully cycled. There's a reason many stores won't guarantee your fish if the tank is less than 30days old.

That being said, some fish are more shy than others, and I always try to look for them. They can float, but only once they're beginning to decompose and the gasses have built up, which is after they'd be releasing quite a bit of ammonia into the water. Your plants would help offset some of that...I'd watch to see if the fish are huddling at the bottom or near the plants and test your parameters daily until you've seen the ammonia followed by the nitrite spike. After those even out, you should be in the clear. Hiding at the bottom can be a means of trying to escape ammonia.

Anyway, you're in for an interesting ride! Enjoy!

 

I'm enjoying learning all about fishkeeping. It's a great hobby. I use the strips because the LFS suggested them because of ease of use until I get used to caring for a tank. Before I add fish I take a water sample to my LFS and they test it with the API master test kit. I did that right before I added the tetras. They said I should do a water change and then add the tetras. I have done a 25% water change twice since I added fish.

My tank looks like ****. It sure looked good a couple days ago. It seems like all this started happening when I added Flourish Excel.

I just tested my water with the strips(The verbiage is from what the kit says is safe ect.):
Nitrate-10 safe
Nitrite-1.0 low end of stress
Hardness 75 soft
Chlorine-0
Alkalinity-0
PH-6.8 Neutral
Ammonia-0

 

Just got an email from the owner of my LFS asking me about my water parameters. She also asked how much I have been feeding and said I should only be feeding once every 3rd day. I'm feeding twice a day everyday. She says I shouldn't feed daily until my tank is fully cycled.

Maybe that is my problem with the dirty plants and fish dying.

 

I use Prime every time I do a water change. As far as cycling the tank I added the recommended dose of API Quick Start immediately before adding the fish and then a half dose for a week after. So I've been dosing with Quick start every day since the 23rd. These recommendations are from my LFS.

As far as testing the the water I have done it every day since putting fish in the tank. I am using the Tetra strips. They recommended I use those first due to ease of use and recommended I bring my water in for them to test prior to adding fish each time.

Don’t use any test strips. Spend the extra money and get the API master test kit. It is a liquid test that is more accurate. Cycling with fish takes more work. Test daily and do water changes as test results dictate. I do a head count every day I get home from work. Sometimes it’s hard because they are excited to see me, or get fed. But sit back and do a head count.

Just got an email from the owner of my LFS asking me about my water parameters. She also asked how much I have been feeding and said I should only be feeding once every 3rd day. I'm feeding twice a day everyday. She says I shouldn't feed daily until my tank is fully cycled.

Maybe that is my problem with the dirty plants and fish dying.

Absolutely not! It’s nice your LFS is following up, I haven’t had that happen. But can you go 3 days without food? Feed once a day , use the API master test kit to test water parameters. Do a water change using a good water conditioner anytime you see ammonia or nitrite readings. Water changes is the key to a safe healthy fish in cycle. You might need to do a water change every day depending on test results. I’ve been doing a fish in cycle since mid September, 23 fish no losses. What is this dirty plants you mention? Did I miss that post? It could be brown algae which is normal on a near cycled tank.

 

Just bought the API master test kit. Thanks Amazon. It should be here Sunday. I think the thought process is that they aren't creating a large bio load so you don't get the huge ammonia spikes. I have read that some people fast their fish for 1 day. It seems like cleaning the water that much is removing the BB from the water to often. Or is the BB just in the substrates and filter? The reason I ask is because on API's quick start bottle it says to add every time you do a water change?

I can't believe how much I've learned from different peoples opinions in the last 6 weeks and from my own experiences since fish have been in my tank this last 1 1/2 weeks. I don't think I've even scratched the surface.

 

The spike comes from the fact that you need the ammonia in order to feed the BB in the tank. It doesn't matter if the ammonia comes from bioload or decaying things like food or actual ammonia, but the ammonia spike needs to be present prior to the bacteria interacting with it. The ammonia increases at a faster rate than the bacteria in the beginning. If you remove water, you're also removing the bacteria, so you may actually be delaying the cycle a bit. Once the bacteria that consume the ammonia have gone through their course, you will get a spike in the nitrites because of the same reason. I've read varying things that actually state the nitrites spiking may actually be more detrimental than the ammonia spike. It doesn't take quite as long for that one to pass through.

If you disrupt the tank enough (BB is all throughout it: in your water, on your ornaments/decorations, but the biggest is in the filter media because the filter's designed to collect stuff like that), you can actually send your tank into another cycling, even if it's already established. Changing the filter out at the same time as vacuuming the gravel pretty seriously can remove enough of the bacteria to cause it to need to catch up again, creating a mini-cycling. The quickstart bottle is trying to offset that by adding in bacteria that you would have removed with the water change.

If you're feeding your fish 2x a day, you're probably overfeeding. Honestly, I still overfeed, and I'm trying to adjust. I read somewhere that a fish's stomach is usually about the size of its eyeball. Fish can go a *long* time without food. I've gone a week without giving them food before when my tank was cycling. Now, they completely unhinge when you put the food in the tank because they're hungry, but they aren't going to starve. A good rule of thumb is to shut the filter/circulators off, put the food in, let the fish eat it for 2 minutes, then scoop the rest out with the net. Like I said, I've gotten better, but I'm still overfeeding. Excess food will decay and be a source of ammonia.

Also, you're right on the fact that you haven't scratched the surface. It's a deep rabbithole with lots of differing opinions and philosophies. You'll form your own as you go, too.

 

The spike comes from the fact that you need the ammonia in order to feed the BB in the tank. It doesn't matter if the ammonia comes from bioload or decaying things like food or actual ammonia, but the ammonia spike needs to be present prior to the bacteria interacting with it. The ammonia increases at a faster rate than the bacteria in the beginning. If you remove water, you're also removing the bacteria, so you may actually be delaying the cycle a bit. Once the bacteria that consume the ammonia have gone through their course, you will get a spike in the nitrites because of the same reason. I've read varying things that actually state the nitrites spiking may actually be more detrimental than the ammonia spike. It doesn't take quite as long for that one to pass through.

If you disrupt the tank enough (BB is all throughout it: in your water, on your ornaments/decorations, but the biggest is in the filter media because the filter's designed to collect stuff like that), you can actually send your tank into another cycling, even if it's already established. Changing the filter out at the same time as vacuuming the gravel pretty seriously can remove enough of the bacteria to cause it to need to catch up again, creating a mini-cycling. The quickstart bottle is trying to offset that by adding in bacteria that you would have removed with the water change.

If you're feeding your fish 2x a day, you're probably overfeeding. Honestly, I still overfeed, and I'm trying to adjust. I read somewhere that a fish's stomach is usually about the size of its eyeball. Fish can go a *long* time without food. I've gone a week without giving them food before when my tank was cycling. Now, they completely unhinge when you put the food in the tank because they're hungry, but they aren't going to starve. A good rule of thumb is to shut the filter/circulators off, put the food in, let the fish eat it for 2 minutes, then scoop the rest out with the net. Like I said, I've gotten better, but I'm still overfeeding. Excess food will decay and be a source of ammonia.

Also, you're right on the fact that you haven't scratched the surface. It's a deep rabbithole with lots of differing opinions and philosophies. You'll form your own as you go, too.

That's what I was thinking about the water changes. Thanks!